Today I worked on......

[Jay Walker]

Yes, Dan,

A breaker relay simply cuts off the G.I. lamps wired through it while it's On; the only special case I recall is Space Station, where it switches over to another set of Green bulbs during multiball.

The Interconnect boards in this age of game are somewhat dedicated by the resistor values needed for each different game. Different numbers of lamps, connected in parallel, need different resistor values, the more lamps the higher the resistance. Those high-wattage ceramic resistors can fail and break the flashbulb circuit.

 

[cooldan]

Right, this is the final electronic conundrum:

Flash 1 controls one 89 and three 906 bulbs. I changed the 89 and it worked fine, then I started trying to work out the 906 wiring. While I was doing this, that new 89 blew.

The 906 bulbs have orange and black wires going to a little lamp holder on a green piece of PCB, but the wires are thin. The 89 has the same colour but much meatier wires.


I’ve tried tracking those thin orange and black wires but didn’t really get very far. What do I do next please?

Oh, and 5J5-9 looks good to me but that is a white/grey wire to my eyes. Any point looking at D46? Or do I need to investigate the interconnect board?

I mean look at it. It’s a thing of beauty, I think we can all agree to that. There’s Chuck Skull, manager of The Violators, lurking by The Pit. And on the backglass, the lovely ‘T-Bird Twins’ Jennifer and Kristine Van Galder.

 

[Moonraker]

The 89 blew because the blown 906's have not been replaced... they share the load. 89 got overloaded and blew.

 

[Spandangler]

Rollergames looks so freakin cool. If you get bored mate we can do a temp swap with something if you like.

 

[cooldan]

Gaz, yes of course mate.

There's something fishy going on with these flashers: I traced the orange and black wires in both directions and found no wires off or shortcircuits. Since replacing that 89 (which has now blown again) several of the flashers that tested just fine yesterday according to this location map....

.... are now not working properly:

Flash 2 is supposed to flash those 3 red 2s in the image above, and it did so yesterday, but now only the lower one (an 89) still works, the two up top (906s in the upper ramp thing) do nothing. Flash 3 was fine yesterday, now this does not light in test, but that lower red 2 flashes instead.
Flash 4 is supposed to light this yellow one (and did yesterday) but now, guess what, it lights that same lower red 2 as well.
Flash 5 is supposed to light the two green 5s, now the lower one (89) works, but the upper one (906) not.
Flash 6 was fine yesterday, now this does not light in test, but that lower red 2 flashes instead.
Flash 7 was fine yesterday, now this does not light in test, but that lower red 2 flashes instead.
Flash 8 (three 89 flashers) all still working.

WTF, gentlemen?

 

[cooldan]

By the way, I traced those wires to this molex block and this top ramp thingy, in case these may help someone explain something to me:



Bonus 10 points to anyone who can tell me what is wrong on the backglass?

 

[Moonraker]

In that picture where you've circled the molex connector, you can see the pin in the top left corner. That's not supposed to be showing and tells me that there is a problem with that connection/connector... the pin should be fully inside the connector. It might solve a few issues if you've many like that.

 

[cooldan]

you've better eyes than me, Peter. that was on my list of things to try, but just for my info, please specify exactly where you mean, here's a better photo

 

[Moonraker]

My bad, there's no pins showing in that photo.

 

[cooldan]

still worth repinning?
i've no clue what else i could do except maybe repin the connector here on the interconnect board where it mentions flashers, and where the earth side of all those upper ramp flashers come from (black/blue, black/green etc)


I still suspect those big sand resistors that I’ve marked in green

 

[Moonraker]

Re-pin? No, not unless absolutely necessary as your more likely to introduce errors. I don't think it's necessary.

The I think the white resistors will be fine. Easy enough to check their resistance with a meter.

I would take the board out and reflow the solder on the connectors. Then I would check for shorts with the flashers. Then replace all the bulbs in the circuit before switching on again. I can't help thinking you've missed a flasher or two in the circuit and that's what's causing problems.

Does the manual highlight where all the flashers are located on the playfield? Are there any that are under ramps or hard to get at?

 

[cooldan]

Re-pin? No, not unless absolutely necessary as your more likely to introduce errors. I don't think it's necessary. ok

The I think the white resistors will be fine. Easy enough to check their resistance with a meter. ok, i will do that. the reason i'm concerned by them is i was reading the Pinside RG owners thread (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/rock-rock-rockin-rollergames-club) and *somewhere* in there i read that someone had to replace one of them because of some flasher issue...... but i'll never find the post again. how do i test resistors?

I would take the board out and reflow the solder on the connectors. will do Then I would check for shorts with the flashers. how? Then replace all the bulbs in the circuit before switching on again all bulbs replaced with new 89s and 906s. I can't help thinking you've missed a flasher or two in the circuit and that's what's causing problems. probably right

Does the manual highlight where all the flashers are located on the playfield? no, it's a bit shi_t and countless errors have been identified in it. the map of flasher locations i pasted above was made by someone in that Pinside thread, they also made a map for the backboard ones (present in some games, mine has the holes but no wiring, i will probably install them after fixing this) Are there any that are under ramps or hard to get at? 1000% yes. to get at that top ramp i have to take off about four or five other parts that are super fiddly to get back on afterwards. i was really hoping to find a wire off in there.

 

[cooldan]

By the way @Moonraker i asked that Jeff-Z guy about my flash problem and he just wrote back with this:

"If you know that the respective coils are working as they should and if you know the AC relay is working as it should, then I would suspect wiring gremlins. You might want to look at your serial number decals and confirm that the interconnect board is correct for your game. Each title has its own combination of flash resistor values. Also, I believe there were two different interconnect boards for RollerGames. The resistors may have been changed when the insert board flashers were dropped, but the manual wasn't updated. I don't know the exact values, but each circuit has an assigned resistor value depending on the number of flashers on the circuit. Jeff-Z".

all a bit over my head unfortunately.

 

[Moonraker]

Check resistors using the resistors setting on your multimeter.

In the picture above, you circled the resistors in green. The game serial number is on them. Check that matches the serial number of the other boards in the back box and the game itself. That tells you if the interconnect board is the proper one or a replacement one, which is what Jeff-z was referring to.

 

[Moonraker]

Resistance value is showing on the pcb.

 

[cooldan]

ok i think i'm getting somewhere.

The serial number of my RG is 576-I365134
The playfield is stamped ESCMAR26 and has the date APR 09 1990 on it

According to the manual, my audio board should be 11581-576, and it is
According to the manual, my aux power board should be 12247-576, and it is
According to the manual, my interconnect board should be 12313-576, and it is
According to the manual, my CPU board should be 11883-576 but it is not ..... instead it is 11883-2003 (with suffix 16-8850-283)

....so it looks like my interconnect board does not match my CPU board. Maybe the CPU got switched, or maybe the interconnect board was supposed to be the other version. Also, the values for the resistors on that interconnect board in the manual don't match the actual values i just measured, even though it is the correctly numbered board. Fuse F4 on that interconnect board (5A slo-blo) was blown yesterday and i replaced it, now it's blown again so i've put a fuse breaker thing in there so i don't use up all my fuses.

My guess is that i can fix the problem by changing those interconnect board resistors, can someone who understands this background stuff confirm for me? in the meantime I will reflow all those solder joints, but i think i've found the culprit, by hook or by crook.

 

[Moonraker]

That's why I was saying to look at the serial numbers to see if they match...

I365164 apart to be your serial number for the game, just check that's the same on the mpu. It does sound like the mpu has been changed but see if it has the game serial number on it.

Looks like F4 is GI, it might be a blown bulb or a short where the holder is touching something.

 

[Mozie]

Didn't do much over the holidays as I was away but did find the mojo for a few minutes today and replaced the standard goldfish Bruce on jaws with the far more vicious looking one from reflex mods.