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The OFFICIAL LICENSED 'moans about pricing' thread
- Thread starter VeeMonroe
- Start date
There’s no set rule about what nib will depreciate and the first couple to hit the 2nd hand market on new titles will also be a touch more. Personal opinion on what I’d be prepared to pay
Pro 8.5k > 7k
Pre 11.5k > 9k
LE 16k > 12k
Edit - should have said the above would also be for the more recent successful titles. I’d be prepared to pay 6k ish for a pro of say IM Gotg Star Wars. And for perceived lesser recent titles for eg tmnt LZ Mando Rush.
Premiums of these 7.5/8k depending on the title
Pro 8.5k > 7k
Pre 11.5k > 9k
LE 16k > 12k
Edit - should have said the above would also be for the more recent successful titles. I’d be prepared to pay 6k ish for a pro of say IM Gotg Star Wars. And for perceived lesser recent titles for eg tmnt LZ Mando Rush.
Premiums of these 7.5/8k depending on the title
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I don’t think we have seen the bottom yet.
Inflation is still with us both in usa and uk. that will keep putting up NIB prices. This prices more and more folk out in a world that is currently seeing a shrinking of disposable income. manufacturers may find they need to cut prices to continue to make sales. that may mean reduced bom games!!!
gbp could strengthen against us$ but probably not too significantly to counter inflation.
rising base interest rates haven’t yet trickled into around 1m homeowners who are on fixed deals currently. many of these will unwind over next 18 months.
Food price inflation is higher than it should be due to profiteering.
energy prices are falling but not as much and as fast as they should do, again due to profiteering.
The usa are really to blame for the russian invasion of ukraine, and this is all really a calculated money grab to make the super rich richer and the rest of us poorer. It’s working!!
We face the biggest living std squeeze for more than a generation. Most of the workforce haven’t experienced this before.
Disposable income has taken a massive hit and this is seen in dwindling spend on everything that is non essential.
Pins are not selling due to lack of buyers. we have classic oversupply of games as people have left the hobby. many the single pin casual owners. this stifles the market as we’re seeing already. even if you want a new pin, you can’t sell the one you need to get rid of to make space for the new one.
Pinbars / arcades are suffering with the rest of the hospitality / leisure industries therefore they’re not sucking up pins like they were previously.
The bargain hunting horders are sat in the sidelines waiting for the bargains to appear , knowing we haven’t yet hit rock bottom.
PS: Dont take any of the above too seriously.
Inflation is still with us both in usa and uk. that will keep putting up NIB prices. This prices more and more folk out in a world that is currently seeing a shrinking of disposable income. manufacturers may find they need to cut prices to continue to make sales. that may mean reduced bom games!!!
gbp could strengthen against us$ but probably not too significantly to counter inflation.
rising base interest rates haven’t yet trickled into around 1m homeowners who are on fixed deals currently. many of these will unwind over next 18 months.
Food price inflation is higher than it should be due to profiteering.
energy prices are falling but not as much and as fast as they should do, again due to profiteering.
The usa are really to blame for the russian invasion of ukraine, and this is all really a calculated money grab to make the super rich richer and the rest of us poorer. It’s working!!
We face the biggest living std squeeze for more than a generation. Most of the workforce haven’t experienced this before.
Disposable income has taken a massive hit and this is seen in dwindling spend on everything that is non essential.
Pins are not selling due to lack of buyers. we have classic oversupply of games as people have left the hobby. many the single pin casual owners. this stifles the market as we’re seeing already. even if you want a new pin, you can’t sell the one you need to get rid of to make space for the new one.
Pinbars / arcades are suffering with the rest of the hospitality / leisure industries therefore they’re not sucking up pins like they were previously.
The bargain hunting horders are sat in the sidelines waiting for the bargains to appear , knowing we haven’t yet hit rock bottom.
PS: Dont take any of the above too seriously.
Jib
Site Supporter
I don’t know but unless nib prices come down, I don’t see nearly new prices coming down much more if at all. I doubt people will be selling FF pro in 6 months for sub 7k if a nib is still 8.6, most would rather just keep it or try and trade it.
If people can’t get whatever they deem enough for a used machine and just hang on to it that’s when supply dries up and presumably we start to see more wanted ads which usually create a higher asking price again. Don’t know how that affects older titles though.
Edit - I could be completely wrong of course and you can pick up a FF under 7k, it’s all relative I guess.
If people can’t get whatever they deem enough for a used machine and just hang on to it that’s when supply dries up and presumably we start to see more wanted ads which usually create a higher asking price again. Don’t know how that affects older titles though.
Edit - I could be completely wrong of course and you can pick up a FF under 7k, it’s all relative I guess.
My son picked this up in Torquay the other day, £800 and it got back here ok with no issues. Solid etc. Cracking little car.
Makes you wonder how these pins cost so much, crazy.
Told him I will have it off him and stick it in the air chamber that is vacant
Makes you wonder how these pins cost so much, crazy.
Told him I will have it off him and stick it in the air chamber that is vacant
Attachments
I’m genuinely surprised how little people have cut back despite the increases in inflation.
I think there’s still a lot of denial going on and many people are currently living way beyond their means.
Meals out are now shockingly expensive. Anything under £200 for 2 people seems positively cheap in a mid range restaurant and yet the restaurants and bars in central London are still heaving.
My son’s uni rent has gone up by 2k. He gets a 4k loan from the government but accommodation excluding meals is now almost 11 grand a year. Guess which mug is going to end up paying that.
it’s getting to the stage it’s probably far more sensible to buy him a flat than pay rent for three years.
I suspect a lot of people are absolutely maxing out their cards but sooner or later there has to be a point where they start to pay it off.
As to whether this will cause pins to go back down to a sensible price. Who knows? I suspect a lot of people will store them rather than sell at lower prices and wait and see.
I think there’s still a lot of denial going on and many people are currently living way beyond their means.
Meals out are now shockingly expensive. Anything under £200 for 2 people seems positively cheap in a mid range restaurant and yet the restaurants and bars in central London are still heaving.
My son’s uni rent has gone up by 2k. He gets a 4k loan from the government but accommodation excluding meals is now almost 11 grand a year. Guess which mug is going to end up paying that.
it’s getting to the stage it’s probably far more sensible to buy him a flat than pay rent for three years. I suspect a lot of people are absolutely maxing out their cards but sooner or later there has to be a point where they start to pay it off.
As to whether this will cause pins to go back down to a sensible price. Who knows? I suspect a lot of people will store them rather than sell at lower prices and wait and see.
I’m tempted to sell all my pins and buy a sports car 
brrrrrrpppppp , I don’t think there’s going to be a massive drop in pin prices .
brrrrrrpppppp , I don’t think there’s going to be a massive drop in pin prices .
My thoughts on a GZ Pro, like everything else its all about condition though.
I would think a stock GZ Pro with lots of plays and minor imperfections 7k
Minor imperfections, little play time and some smaller mods 7.25k
Near mint with smaller simple mods 7.5k
Mint (not a hairline mark anywhere) , little play time with sought after higher priced mods 7.6 - 7.7k
I would think a stock GZ Pro with lots of plays and minor imperfections 7k
Minor imperfections, little play time and some smaller mods 7.25k
Near mint with smaller simple mods 7.5k
Mint (not a hairline mark anywhere) , little play time with sought after higher priced mods 7.6 - 7.7k
!!!!!!!!!!
Haven’t been out for a long time as our date nights since having the Pi-Bo Wizard have tended to involve sitting outside Croydon station with a box of Bajan fish cakes… but I’ve just added up what we would pay in SE London, given what we used to, and it’s £60 for two!Still a lot compared to eating in, but not £200!!!!!!
Guessing you’re not having a bottle of wine or cocktails with thAt meal then. alcohol really whacks up the cost.
Made the mistake of going to one of the ivy cafe’s a couple of weeks ago and the mains were £35 each. It quickly mounts up.
alcohol really whacks up the cost. Made the mistake of going to one of the ivy cafe’s a couple of weeks ago and the mains were £35 each. It quickly mounts up.
This opened up the other day https://blackpoolmill.com/ so treated my other half on opening night, few pints and water none of that wine malarkey. Nibbles, starters and main course £100. That was too much as I cook but hey what the hell
SteadyP
Site Supporter
You’re not too far off the mark- there’s record amounts of debt locked up in car finance too, payments have increased way above the rate of wage growth in the last 5 years. I know having worked through the credit crunch, customers were defaulting or having trouble getting out of HP agreements- it’ll be worse this time next year unless other living costs start coming down (food and utilities). Owning pinball will be the last thing on the minds of many struggling when their current mortgage deals expire. Sorry to be all doom and gloom
I think Pinball is pretty recession proof for the most part. Only those on the very lowest rungs of the ladder will be dropping out. No one on here is going to be wondering where their next meal is coming from any time soon.
I think used prices will start to drop a little, we're already seeing that now but doubt they will be anywhere near pre-covid prices, especially with NIB prices continually rising.
I think used prices will start to drop a little, we're already seeing that now but doubt they will be anywhere near pre-covid prices, especially with NIB prices continually rising.
Mortgages will be the killer for the general population, especially if interest rates keep rising - which I keep hearing in the press are levelling out/have hit peak, then they keep being raised again. I suspect quite a few who've been in the hobby for well over a decade also paid for it by dropping extra debt on their mortgages when borrowing was almost free too, and even if mortgage increases aren't financially crippling to them, if their repayments increase a lot, people are going to be far less inclined to have tens of thousands in depreciating-value luxuries sat around.You’re not too far off the mark- there’s record amounts of debt locked up in car finance too, payments have increased way above the rate of wage growth in the last 5 years. I know having worked through the credit crunch, customers were defaulting or having trouble getting out of HP agreements- it’ll be worse this time next year unless other living costs start coming down (food and utilities). Owning pinball will be the last thing on the minds of many struggling when their current mortgage deals expire. Sorry to be all doom and gloom
It was better than having money in the bank for some and prices were rising but with interest rates rising and prices dropping it’s not so good now, with £50k/£100k of pins sitting there that’s money going down the drain. For some it’s also the retirement fund dropping, for others it will be an opportunity to pick up some bargains maybe.
Mortgage interest rates are going to be a killer for many, especially young families
Anyway, the sun is shining but the ice is slippery
Mortgage interest rates are going to be a killer for many, especially young families
Anyway, the sun is shining but the ice is slippery
Ashbo
Site Supporter
On the plus side, perceived value of pins relative to each other remains constant, so those remaining in the hobby, changing pins should be a "lost money on one", "got the next at a bargain" process.
Any thoughts on a Met Premium? Excellent nick, nice paintwork, not a mark on it.
It was the 2nd most expensive game I ever bought back then, except for Iron Maiden Premium which was only £250 more at the time (since sold to buy an electric car). I hardly ever play my games at the moment, but when I do…
…[it’s usually Fish Tales!]
It was the 2nd most expensive game I ever bought back then, except for Iron Maiden Premium which was only £250 more at the time (since sold to buy an electric car). I hardly ever play my games at the moment, but when I do…
…[it’s usually Fish Tales!]
I imagine that the average pinhead is relatively old. I certainly feel mid age range at anything I go to. There’s a smattering of people in their 30s but late 40s-60 seems pretty much the norm. (Owing to the need for space for games/available cash etc)
Lots of people with their mortgages paid off or huge amounts of equity in property. Quite a few people sitting on inherited cash as well. Most of those are going to be pretty unaffected by interest rate hikes etc
If prices drop by a significant amount there’s a few people who I know who will end up going on a spending spree and keep games in storage.
Perhaps a bigger price decrease is going to be seen when people start retiring and looking to free up cash or downsize. (Similarly there is very little mention in the news about the impact of multiple home owners all popping off at similar times over the next 10 years)
Lots of people with their mortgages paid off or huge amounts of equity in property. Quite a few people sitting on inherited cash as well. Most of those are going to be pretty unaffected by interest rate hikes etc
If prices drop by a significant amount there’s a few people who I know who will end up going on a spending spree and keep games in storage.
Perhaps a bigger price decrease is going to be seen when people start retiring and looking to free up cash or downsize. (Similarly there is very little mention in the news about the impact of multiple home owners all popping off at similar times over the next 10 years)
The aging scene is a very good point . Something I have thought about in those 3am sleepless nights staring into the abyss
I do think at some point as I get older I just won’t have the same enthusiasm or interest …. even now that ebbs and flows tbh …. or physically be able to handle / maintain/ play these big heavy bastards.
Or circumstances change , no space , need cash , die
Will there be enough fresh blood in the hobby to absorb all these machines when the old farts start offloading them ?
Who knows ? Like most things in life probably best not to overthink things, especially the future , and just crack on enjoying what you have .
Some good points made, I don't think we will be see people offloading pins for food anytime soon and A+ titles, NIB, and minty restored games will always be in demand.
However, are the 100k games rooms representative of the majority of collectors? Pinball sales often seem circular, someone buys an upgrade partially funded by the sale of the old game. Wages have dropped a good 5% this year in real terms, same again next year? What happens when those at the bottom of the ladder have to use spare money on essentials?
On a slight tangent I'm often shocked how little wriggle room people have financially, even those with decent incomes, lifestyle inflation eats away any spare money and they have nothing to fall back.
However, are the 100k games rooms representative of the majority of collectors? Pinball sales often seem circular, someone buys an upgrade partially funded by the sale of the old game. Wages have dropped a good 5% this year in real terms, same again next year? What happens when those at the bottom of the ladder have to use spare money on essentials?
On a slight tangent I'm often shocked how little wriggle room people have financially, even those with decent incomes, lifestyle inflation eats away any spare money and they have nothing to fall back.
A Scared Stiff has just come up on eBay and they say it was an uncles who recently passed away, they have a collection that will be up for sale.Or circumstances change , no space , need cash , die
Its very sad when this happens, I bought a pin recently because the husband passed away and the money went to charity.
Who knows when your time is up, not good leaving a load of pins for them to sought out as well.
Time to sell up and move to Thailand
ian866
Site Supporter
Tha needs to get a bottle of stout ladGuessing you’re not having a bottle of wine or cocktails with thAt meal then.
Non pin mate sent me this link tonight
www.economist.com
Pinball is booming in America, thanks to nostalgia and canny marketing
A generations-old game makes a comeback
A Scared Stiff has just come up on eBay and they say it was an uncles who recently passed away, they have a collection that will be up for sale.
Its very sad when this happens, I bought a pin recently because the husband passed away and the money went to charity.
Who knows when your time is up, not good leaving a load of pins for them to sought out as well.
Time to sell up and move to Thailand
Pre Op.
This kinda thing put everything into perspective for me and as crazy as it sounds I found myself sitting on the edge of the bed chatting to the wife and writing down what I thought my Pin collection was worth.
When it past 100k I kinda suprised myself and as much as I love my pins it’s times like this when you question just what are the important things in life and sadly Pins just don’t figure in this equation for me anymore.
Yes I still love pinball and the past 12mth they have kept me busy while keeping the Anxiety at bay at least during the day and I’m not sure how I would have coped without this awesome hobby to take my mind off things.
Post op
TNA arrived this week and ignited my spark once again and boy that game is another gravy! Simple yet addictive and satisfying which goes to show you don’t need Toys and multilayered PFs with rollercoaster ramps everywhere.
TNA was a last min purchase to give me something to look forward to when I came out the other side of my Op. it was 1.5k more than a Stern Pro but had no compromises as in all spooky pins they don’t remove ramps and mechs. I honestly got more than expected after playing the original game quite a few times so happy days.
NIB Stern Pro’s no longer interest me unless they are older and cheaper preloved ones and I still have a couple on my radar if they pop up at the right price.
So back on track with moaning about prices! I think Stern are now trying to keep shareholders happy and don’t give a **** about the old school pinheads.
Problem is they sell out on every LE on release as well as shed loads of Prem/Pro even when the price hikes happen year on year and no amount of moaning stops the this cash cow but I think the penny has to drop some point and for me that point is now!
I really do feel The Tide is Turning! NIB is out of reach of the majority now and I for one just can’t bring myself to pay 8.5k on a Pro when stern continually chip away at the BOM while hiking the price.
I would have loved a Foo but dam they took all the cool bits out IMO and 8.5 buys a lot of pin on the 2nd hand market. In fact 2 nice pins could be bought for the price of a pro and with very little depreciation expected if looked after seems to be the way forward.
My collection has got older, turns out I like older games more. Prices are crazy so sold off most of my higher value newer games bought older and put the money in the bank.
Like you I thought I was a goner and again like you a survivor I think that’s what they call it, your outlook changes totally. You realise what IS really important, things aren’t.
Keep it simple
TNA is great
Glad you are ok, chin up mate
Like you I thought I was a goner and again like you a survivor I think that’s what they call it, your outlook changes totally. You realise what IS really important, things aren’t.
Keep it simple
TNA is great
Glad you are ok, chin up mate
The market in uk has for sure slowed down? anyone disagree?
However, asking prices appear to remain pretty high. Why is that?
However, asking prices appear to remain pretty high. Why is that?
People don't want to sell at a loss or just believe they can get what their asking for eventually?
I agree Alan. A brief look at the unsold games on the for sale section will tell you it's slower.
A concept known as 'Optimism bias' - humans are naturally optimistic and think things are going to get better, even in the face of significant evidence to the contrary.
