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The OFFICIAL LICENSED 'moans about pricing' thread

AlanJ said:
The market in uk has for sure slowed down? anyone disagree?

However, asking prices appear to remain pretty high. Why is that?
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Definitely slowed, I got AIQ by seconds when I bought it and that was for more than I have it listed for now. I don't think it's necessarily optimism bias but more for a lot of people it's about knowing nib prices won't come down so 'if I can't fund a nib by adding X I'd rather keep this game'. That's where I'm at with AIQ, if I can't fund a nib pro by selling it I rather keep it and enjoy it more. I think it's probably temporary though, partly due to so many nib purchases all in a short time period.
 
Jib said:
I don't think it's necessarily optimism bias
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Jib said:
I think it's probably temporary though
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That is optimism bias, and has influenced your decision not to reduce the price further, instead you are just holding on to it until things get better ;-)

There's actually nothing in the reporting of wider economic conditions that suggests a temporary issue, unless temporary is being defined in terms of about a decade. In fact, all the evidence is to the contrary.
 
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JT. said:
That is optimism bias, and has influenced your decision not to reduce the price further, instead you are just holding on to it until things get better ;-)

There's actually nothing in the reporting of wider economic conditions that suggests a temporary issue, unless temporary is being defined in terms of about a decade. In fact, all the evidence is to the contrary.
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OK, maybe 😆 but I'd say, for me at least it's driven by nib prices
 
I think the Bank of England is suffering from optimism bias as it’s predicting rates will fall gradually over the next 5 years.
 
mark9 said:
I think the Bank of England is suffering from optimism bias as it’s predicting rates will fall gradually over the next 5 years.
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Quite likely.

Also they can't really say what they think. If, for example, they believed rates will continue to rise into the double figures in the next 5 years, and that that will cause a recession, if they actually said that it would scare the markets and become a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you look at what has happened over the last few years versus their predictions (same with the US Fed, which clearly has a significant impact on our economy) there often isn't a correlation between what they said would happen and what then did happen.

Hunt accidentally let slip a few days ago that he was OK with rates rising and causing a recession - presumably he was tired, I think he was on a foreign trip when he said it, and made a mistake saying it out loud to journalists. I guess this is closer to reality than any BoE public predictions.
 
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JT. said:
Quite likely.

Also they can't really say what they think. If, for example, they believed rates will continue to rise into the double figures in the next 5 years, and that will cause a recession, if they actually said that it would scare the markets and become a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you look at what has happened over the last few years versus their predictions (same with the US Fed, which clearly has a significant impact on our economy) there often isn't a correlation between what they said would happen and what then did happen.

Hunt accidentally let slip a few days ago that he was OK with rates rising and causing a recession - presumably he was tired, I think he was on a foreign trip when he said it, and made a mistake saying it out loud to journalists. I guess is this is closer to reality than any BoE public predictions.
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The internal commentary within a lot of the big banks at present is that the current level of rates . Range 4%-5% is here to stay for 20 years…. historically that sort of analysis makes a lot of sense
 
Yep I don't believe a word of it when they say rates are going down. The base rate currently at 4.5% is much lower than the 50 year average of over 7%. Also worth bearing in mind the rate never dropped below 5% from 1958-2001, we're not even there yet...
 
There’s a whole generation of adults who have never known “normal” interest rates. It was inevitable that rates were going to rise. The question is by how much as for how long?
I’m genuinely surprised that more people didn’t fix at lower rates but I guess if you’ve only ever known 1-2% mortgage rates it’s easy to be suckered into thinking it’s always been like that.
It really doesn’t take much for mortgages to become unaffordable if you are really stretched initially. 5% still sounds relatively reasonable to older people but if it means your mortgage has just gone from 2 to 4 grand a month then you’re probably in a world of hurt.

Not entirely convinced it is going to cause a massive correction in house prices though.
 
I put my TZ up for sale, no interest, reduced it to what i thought was fair value. got lower offers which i decided not to accept. Clearly I’m expecting a price too high in the current market, yet I’m not in any need to sell. i don’t need the space or the money at the moment. I couldn’t get anything i fancy to replace it at the offer prices, and Im not really that bothered about any of the machines currently for sale. Plus i’ve no burning desire for any other particular machine. In summary I’m the worst type of seller, a not highly motivated one. I suspect that many other sellers are in the same position.
 
AlanJ said:
I put my TZ up for sale, no interest, reduced it to what i thought was fair value. got lower offers which i decided not to accept. Clearly I’m expecting a price too high in the current market, yet I’m not in any need to sell. i don’t need the space or the money at the moment. I couldn’t get anything i fancy to replace it at the offer prices, and Im not really that bothered about any of the machines currently for sale. Plus i’ve no burning desire for any other particular machine. In summary I’m the worst type of seller, a not highly motivated one. I suspect that many other sellers are in the same position.
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Same with a BKSOR I put up recently. Went up, reduced, reduced, reduced. Got to a fair price but was still getting low-end offers, nearly had a few deals but either the other party pulled out for reasons or they were arguing over £60 on a 5k purchase and I had enough and decided to just sit until I reduced it one more time to a price where people started to mention how was it still sitting here and a buyer came along and just offered the asking price no argument. No desire to shift it quickly which I think is what a lot of people count on when they come along instantly asking for £500 off it or more.
 
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Probably in the same position. I'm toying with selling my bk2k later in the year but I doubt I'll get back what it owes me and all I've done is rerubber and led it.
 
I think Q3 the bank of England could drop interest rates. They just need to lock a raft of folk into 10 year mortgages first.

Inflation also should drop now they've brought diesel down to affordable levels. Time will tell.
 
Arv said:
I think Q3 the bank of England could drop interest rates. They just need to lock a raft of folk into 10 year mortgages first.

Inflation also should drop now they've brought diesel down to affordable levels. Time will tell.
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I cant see it - the profiteering will continue disguised as "inflation"
 
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AlanJ said:
I cant see it - the profiteering will continue disguised as "inflation"
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Yup. Example: reports that diesel just dropped by 12p per litre in a month because the regulator announced it was looking at the pricing - and reports say that it is still overpriced by 6-7p a litre, to bring retailers back to the same level of profit as pre-covid. The same swindle is going on with everything and there's currently no incentive for them to stop.
 
Kelsbells said:
The internal commentary within a lot of the big banks at present is that the current level of rates . Range 4%-5% is here to stay for 20 years…. historically that sort of analysis makes a lot of sense
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Them Bozos couldn’t predict a winner in a one horse race, let alone a 20 year prediction.
 
This ^

My business is engineering, one of the many regulars I buy in is hydraulic oil, since 2020 it’s increased in price by 100%, fortunately for me that gets passed onto the end customer.

This is IMO one of the reasons machine prices have increased at the rate they have over the last few years, good old inflation, the way of the world.

Chris.
 
In the current climate you may well be stuck with any machine you purchase for quite a while.

I'll certainly be making sure that I really like a game before I buy it in future.

I've been lucky in the past by being able to move on games that I don't enjoy (Maiden & Walking Dead) quickly and without much loss.
 
In my time in the hobby (nearly 6 years), I have only made money / got my money back on one game when selling. All of the others I have lost money on, ranging from a couple of hundred to over a grand on my Hobbit, which I had NIB (looking back now, that was a mistake to sell at that 😂).

However, in my eyes that is cost of owning and enjoying a machine. I think since lockdown, there seems to be a common (not all!) stance that you will get at least what you paid back and probably more. A couple of years ago that was maybe the case, but we are back to a ‘normal’ market now.

There seems to be two main types of sellers at the minute:

1) I need to sell and I will let the market decide the value until it’s sold

2) I want to sell (not need) at cost X because that is what I paid for it or that is the bottom line.

Nothing wrong with either, but there are loads more Number 2 sellers, which is why things are sitting around not selling.
 
JAG555 said:
In my time in the hobby (nearly 6 years), I have only made money / got my money back on one game when selling. All of the others I have lost money on, ranging from a couple of hundred to over a grand on my Hobbit, which I had NIB (looking back now, that was a mistake to sell at that 😂).

However, in my eyes that is cost of owning and enjoying a machine. I think since lockdown, there seems to be a common (not all!) stance that you will get at least what you paid back and probably more. A couple of years ago that was maybe the case, but we are back to a ‘normal’ market now.

There seems to be two main types of sellers at the minute:

1) I need to sell and I will let the market decide the value until it’s sold

2) I want to sell (not need) at cost X because that is what I paid for it or that is the bottom line.

Nothing wrong with either, but there are loads more Number 2 sellers, which is why things are sitting around not selling.
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Absolutely right on both counts John. Nothing wrong with losing a bit of money if you've have months of entertainment and fun owning a game.

I had to sell Aerosmith due to an unexpected urgency for funds so the market has to decide. I lost a couple of hundred but easily had that much back in fun and enjoyment.
 
JAG555 said:
In my time in the hobby (nearly 6 years), I have only made money / got my money back on one game when selling. All of the others I have lost money on, ranging from a couple of hundred to over a grand on my Hobbit, which I had NIB (looking back now, that was a mistake to sell at that 😂).

However, in my eyes that is cost of owning and enjoying a machine. I think since lockdown, there seems to be a common (not all!) stance that you will get at least what you paid back and probably more. A couple of years ago that was maybe the case, but we are back to a ‘normal’ market now.

There seems to be two main types of sellers at the minute:

1) I need to sell and I will let the market decide the value until it’s sold

2) I want to sell (not need) at cost X because that is what I paid for it or that is the bottom line.

Nothing wrong with either, but there are loads more Number 2 sellers, which is why things are sitting around not selling.
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Some people might think like that and I admit I have too at some points but now I think of it more like if you play a round of golf or go and watch a footie game you don’t get your money back. I’m ok paying for the entertainment of having had a game.

As I said before my bottom price is just based on the cost of buying something new and not on getting my money back. If I can’t fund something new and I don’t hate the game I have, there’s no point selling it. If I include the mods I added to aiq and I sell at 8500, I’ll have ‘lost’ 1000. I’m ok with that because I’ve had my fun with it and could afford to buy something else.
 
JAG555 said:
In my time in the hobby (nearly 6 years), I have only made money / got my money back on one game when selling. All of the others I have lost money on, ranging from a couple of hundred to over a grand on my Hobbit, which I had NIB (looking back now, that was a mistake to sell at that 😂).

However, in my eyes that is cost of owning and enjoying a machine. I think since lockdown, there seems to be a common (not all!) stance that you will get at least what you paid back and probably more. A couple of years ago that was maybe the case, but we are back to a ‘normal’ market now.

There seems to be two main types of sellers at the minute:

1) I need to sell and I will let the market decide the value until it’s sold

2) I want to sell (not need) at cost X because that is what I paid for it or that is the bottom line.

Nothing wrong with either, but there are loads more Number 2 sellers, which is why things are sitting around not selling.
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Gonna be a **** ton of games sat for sale soon as there is also a load of "I aint over paying again" buyers in the market right now who wont buy at over market prices. Interesting times indeed hehe.
 
Jib said:
Some people might think like that and I admit I have too at some points but now I think of it more like if you play a round of golf or go and watch a footie game you don’t get your money back. I’m ok paying for the entertainment of having had a game.

As I said before my bottom price is just based on the cost of buying something new and not on getting my money back. If I can’t fund something new and I don’t hate the game I have, there’s no point selling it. If I include the mods I added to aiq and I sell at 8500, I’ll have ‘lost’ 1000. I’m ok with that because I’ve had my fun with it and could afford to buy something else.
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That is a good outlook, but that does put you as a Number 2 seller, who doesn’t need to sell and that is a fortunate place to be.
 
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In a very short time sellers have gone from …’ I could name my price and sell this in minutes ‘ to ‘ who is ever gonna buy this ’ 😂

And are now looking at every pin for sale like this …😁



I suspect it will stabilise … in the same way prices couldn't keep rising forever , I doubt they keep dropping until they are basically free. Though some older and poor titles could go very low . Already seeing some EMs dropping back to the low hundreds now on eBay.
 
I do think part of it is just people talking about it so much has some people questioning purchases even if they were interested. So as someone with a machine for sale I should probably just shut up 😆
 
2 years ago I sold this on here. Fairly priced at time imo and sold very quickly .

Out of interest ….The same listing now - would it fly out ? Would it sell at that ?

Sold - Fish Tales £2500 - with lovely playfield. Lots photos

** NOW SOLD ** GrizZ HQ is maxed to the tune of too many pins and with a new arrival it is with a heavy heart something has to go. So its time for Fish Tales to move on . Always have so much fun with Fishy , an all time classic. and will prob regret selling this but hey ho can't keep em all...
www.pinballinfo.com www.pinballinfo.com
 
Sgt GrizZ said:
2 years ago I sold this on here. Fairly priced at time imo and sold very quickly .

Out of interest ….The same listing now - would it fly out ? Would it sell at that ?

Sold - Fish Tales £2500 - with lovely playfield. Lots photos

** NOW SOLD ** GrizZ HQ is maxed to the tune of too many pins and with a new arrival it is with a heavy heart something has to go. So its time for Fish Tales to move on . Always have so much fun with Fishy , an all time classic. and will prob regret selling this but hey ho can't keep em all...
www.pinballinfo.com www.pinballinfo.com
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It would fly out the door at that price.

It was underpriced then, it would be underpriced now.

A lot of the pins on the forum at the moment are just not desirable pins. The market looks to have slowed but in reality its more accurate that people just aren't buying a game just because its 'availiable'.

Its not like we're being flooded with Monster Bash, White Water or Indiana Jones games.
 
quite a few wanted ads at the mo too. so the merry go round of pin swaps is still happening albeit a lot slower than 12 mths ago.
 
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Just noticed that another full page of for-sale ads are now open versus a month or two ago, so I thought I'd tot up the combined asking prices. £260,639, not including the few that are adverts by retailers!!
 
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