This has to be a deal breaker for people surely? Are JJP on top of it at all? Game is mega money and these play fields are horrendous. Balls of steel (badum-tsch) to drop 10k on one right now imo
Pinball info
Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
JJP GNR Pinball
- Thread starter JustLikeMe
- Start date
mplayfield
Site Supporter
Thanks Neil .for warned is for armed i suppose ,the problems are indeed more than i knew .
@Neil McRae are those pictures of your old game? Or are they pictures of other known issues off of Pinside? I only ask as the guitar headstock issue could’ve been someone jamming a screwdriver into the up down post or something. The post issues are widespread and well known, are the others?
D
Deleted member 2463
There are several photos of the same issues plus one other regular issue that I’ve seen posted a few times, let me dig that out. These are all low play HUO games btw - the photos from two busy locations that I’ve seen would make you weep.
The guitar head in my view is just a matter of time because of volume of ball traffic in that area.
Critically the playfield and clear mirco is providing sucks.
Also other issue is the metal flaking - on mine and one of the other games in the UK; the scoop and metal on the bass ramp the coating was starting to flake away also.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
The guitar head in my view is just a matter of time because of volume of ball traffic in that area.
Critically the playfield and clear mirco is providing sucks.
Also other issue is the metal flaking - on mine and one of the other games in the UK; the scoop and metal on the bass ramp the coating was starting to flake away also.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
D
Deleted member 2463
Whilst there is undoubtably issues, many of them, it’s really difficult to judge how many of them exist. @Neil McRae I think you are genuinely ****ed off with the quality - clearly you got rid of your game, but I don’t actually know what issues your early run of a the game had, nor can I judge what % of games have issues, is it 10% is it 100%?
I’m not in the NIB market; so actually, it doesn’t really matter, but those numbers would be good to understand. Is there an issue. Yes. How widespread is it and what parts of the issue are as widespread (is it 1 in 2 games for posts, 1 in 20 for headstock) - that’s what I’m not sure of.
I hope JJP get it sorted, but it seems from them ignoring the issue and that many runs are having the problem, it’s not quite there yet. Perhaps.
I’m not in the NIB market; so actually, it doesn’t really matter, but those numbers would be good to understand. Is there an issue. Yes. How widespread is it and what parts of the issue are as widespread (is it 1 in 2 games for posts, 1 in 20 for headstock) - that’s what I’m not sure of.
I hope JJP get it sorted, but it seems from them ignoring the issue and that many runs are having the problem, it’s not quite there yet. Perhaps.
@James If you aren't buying NIB, then it really shouldn't bother you at all.
Here's some facts.
4 LEs came into the UK on the first run.
1. At least 50% have chipping and pooling issues.
2. At least 50% have metal flaking issues.
3. At least 50% have had mechanical/electrical failures
4. At least 50% don't have the guitar head chipping issue.
Can't speak for 50% of the other 4 UK games or for the 1000+ that have shipped elsewhere and neither can anyone else. But here are the numbers you wanted
D
Deleted member 2463
Unfortunately James - you are biased in that you are a member of the trade so it should not surprise us that someone with an interest to sell games and other stuff to he community would be trying to question the severity of this problem. This denial is core to the problem in the industry; you can't fix something unless you believe its broken. You don't sell toppers for GNR do you James? 
Irrespective of your own bias - probability theory doesn't support that this is a low cause issue, and to quote my favourite line from Star Trek, a blind man could see that with his cane.
Take JJP: Take their playfield supplier Mirco: Take all the reports of failed playfields on 3 JJP games over almost four years; plus all the reports of failed playfields supplied by Mirco with other pinball manufacturers and direct sales; Take his acknowledgement of the problem publicly and his attempts to explain and fix it.
My game had pooling and chipping and flaking metals; but that isn't why I got rid of it. I moved it on because JJP have refused to make a statement about the issue, but were quick enough to moan at me for a photo I used of Eric and an blank playfield
D) and ultimately because the gameplay didn't draw me in enough and I'm 4 games too many right now - Maybe I should have kept R&M over GNR!
What is clear is that JJP don't care about their customers (our their distributors either!) you just have to read this thread to see that. Phil was super helpful but sadly got absolutely +ZERO+ support from JJP. There are two other manufacturers that I had this problem with and their response was substantially better. When I ordered JJP I thought that there was an almost 100% chance that the game would be ****ed in some way and that the support from JJP would be a ****show - I'm glad that this is a game I can live without - but if JJP acknowledge the problem and fix it I'd likely buy another one.
Regards,
Neil.
Irrespective of your own bias - probability theory doesn't support that this is a low cause issue, and to quote my favourite line from Star Trek, a blind man could see that with his cane.
Take JJP: Take their playfield supplier Mirco: Take all the reports of failed playfields on 3 JJP games over almost four years; plus all the reports of failed playfields supplied by Mirco with other pinball manufacturers and direct sales; Take his acknowledgement of the problem publicly and his attempts to explain and fix it.
My game had pooling and chipping and flaking metals; but that isn't why I got rid of it. I moved it on because JJP have refused to make a statement about the issue, but were quick enough to moan at me for a photo I used of Eric and an blank playfield
D) and ultimately because the gameplay didn't draw me in enough and I'm 4 games too many right now - Maybe I should have kept R&M over GNR!What is clear is that JJP don't care about their customers (our their distributors either!) you just have to read this thread to see that. Phil was super helpful but sadly got absolutely +ZERO+ support from JJP. There are two other manufacturers that I had this problem with and their response was substantially better. When I ordered JJP I thought that there was an almost 100% chance that the game would be ****ed in some way and that the support from JJP would be a ****show - I'm glad that this is a game I can live without - but if JJP acknowledge the problem and fix it I'd likely buy another one.
Regards,
Neil.
Last edited by a moderator:
D
Deleted member 2463
no. but friend of mine got his game 3 weeks ago of the latest run and he has _exact_ same issues that I had.
OP
OP
I don't think this is the right take. The issues clearly aren't isolated or rare as the number of reports over on Pinside show, and that's despite JJP saying that they would be resolved on later runs which have now shipped with the same problems.
Ignoring the above, the core of the issue is that JJP have quite deliberately positioned themselves as the 'luxury' pinball brand with prices to match, but are doing their absolute best to minimise or ignore the problem. Spooky handled the same situation better with TNA, and seem to have learnt their lesson as the R&M playfields seem to be holding up very well. I also don't recall hearing complaints about the Alice Cooped playfields. Similarly, Stern had problems of this nature and resolved the issues by stopping printing around the posts. JJP have had the same issues on multiple titles over a number of years and despite promises to the contrary, don't seem to have a handle on it whilst also not having any internal mechanisms to make right customers who have bought games that have ended up damaged before 100 games have been played.
Edit: I also thought I read something recently about JJP further limiting their warranty in an apparent attempt to absolve themselves of responsibility. Am I remembering that correctly?
Why is everyone jumping on me like I have shat on someones desk?
I thought I asked some pretty decent questions. What are the issues, is everyone having them and how many are affected? As I see a lot of the same pictures, as I haven't really been that focused on pinball for a few weeks with other stuff going on, so I came back on the forum asking some questions. I don't understand how admitting there is a problem and saying yes, but asking how widespread it is denying a problem at all. I was asking about the run and frequency to ascertain if it is a problem that affects everything, which would mean that is an issue for all games and could be fixed, and asking if it was first run to see if it had been solved at a later stage. Again, pretty decent questions to ask.
Irrespective of being "in the trade", it'd be nice for people to remember that actually I am a pinball person too, and sometimes I can just ask something from a curiosity point of view. Jesus.
I thought I asked some pretty decent questions. What are the issues, is everyone having them and how many are affected? As I see a lot of the same pictures, as I haven't really been that focused on pinball for a few weeks with other stuff going on, so I came back on the forum asking some questions. I don't understand how admitting there is a problem and saying yes, but asking how widespread it is denying a problem at all. I was asking about the run and frequency to ascertain if it is a problem that affects everything, which would mean that is an issue for all games and could be fixed, and asking if it was first run to see if it had been solved at a later stage. Again, pretty decent questions to ask.
Irrespective of being "in the trade", it'd be nice for people to remember that actually I am a pinball person too, and sometimes I can just ask something from a curiosity point of view. Jesus.
D
Deleted member 2463
100% agree- and yes they have changed their warranty, which looks like to avoid any responsibility, not sure if that was the intent as the pinball manufacturers often appear to use lawyersbythehour.com
@James your just trying to wind people up
If you spend 10k on a machine and it pools and chips within weeks of purchasing how its that right?
@Neil McRae has a right to be mad about that
He probably buys more NIB then anyone else on here so its his opinion as the buyer you should be listening to as your now in 'the trade'
If you spend 10k on a machine and it pools and chips within weeks of purchasing how its that right?
@Neil McRae has a right to be mad about that
He probably buys more NIB then anyone else on here so its his opinion as the buyer you should be listening to as your now in 'the trade'
No @Tilt_Birmingham I was asking a question, wasn't trying to wind anyone up, stop trying to stir the cup. I was asking some questions.
If you spend 10k on a machine and it pools and chips within weeks of purchasing how its that right?
He probably buys more NIB then anyone else on here so its his opinion as the buyer you should be listening to as your now in 'the trade'
Who is winding people up? No one has suggested that playfields being chipped is right. If they have, quote it.
I think this says I don't think it's rght, right there.
Oh and to all those who wanted Cliffy sets- cliff posted them today.. so looking at a week or so u til they get to me.
OP
OP
Hold up, I wasn't jumping on you in the slightest. My point was that I don't think that questioning the number of machines with these issues is the right take on the situation - from my perspective the numbers aren't relevant in the slightest.
The issue as far as I'm concerned is outlined in the second paragraph of my response - the fact that JJP have positioned themselves as the high end pinball manufacturer, but have done less to resolve these issues than Spooky and Stern. They also seem dedicated to ignoring and/or minimising the obvious problems with machines that they are still shipping despite being aware that the playfields are faulty.
If they'd handled this better, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Hence the lacklustre response and lack of action on the behalf of JJP is my take on the situation, not what percentage of machines has the problem. No jumping intended.
Did you get a spare set by any chance Dave? I missed that order!
I'll be honest it was quite breathtaking. The flow was great and even the rebounds felt controlled, like everything was able to be saved.
Physically the machine moved well, not solid like the hobbit.
The mechanics within the game are amazing. I spent a lot of time just staring at all the parts, from the ball locks to the moving-head stage lighting. Short clip I've just uploaded:
Up/dn posts everywhere, magnets, cascaded flip-flop ball dividers (like BOP). Tons of innovation and attention to detail. Metal work is real nice. Cymbals are genius. Locks are great.
Upper playfield felt good. Ergonomics and mini flipper are right, not impossible feeling like most.
Spinning disc not at all annoying. Small and well placed. Added a good level of uncertainty.
The light shows during multiball are amazing. I found myself being completely in the zone when it was all going on. That "i can't lose" feeling.
Put it this way, you get what you pay for.
Moved on to another machine afterwards and felt cold in comparison.
I'm very much a 90s pinhead but this really turned my head. Playfield issues aside, it's a piece of pinball history, I have absolutely no doubt.
Physically the machine moved well, not solid like the hobbit.
The mechanics within the game are amazing. I spent a lot of time just staring at all the parts, from the ball locks to the moving-head stage lighting. Short clip I've just uploaded:
Up/dn posts everywhere, magnets, cascaded flip-flop ball dividers (like BOP). Tons of innovation and attention to detail. Metal work is real nice. Cymbals are genius. Locks are great.
Upper playfield felt good. Ergonomics and mini flipper are right, not impossible feeling like most.
Spinning disc not at all annoying. Small and well placed. Added a good level of uncertainty.
The light shows during multiball are amazing. I found myself being completely in the zone when it was all going on. That "i can't lose" feeling.
Put it this way, you get what you pay for.
Moved on to another machine afterwards and felt cold in comparison.
I'm very much a 90s pinhead but this really turned my head. Playfield issues aside, it's a piece of pinball history, I have absolutely no doubt.
Appreciated, sorry, just a bit tetchy after being away for so long and getting what I felt was held up on asking what I thought was some fair questions. Sorry.
The point is very valid, any amount of it is not right, but I think we would have all cut JJP some slack if it was a first run thing and they put it right, as you say. To hear it is a unsolved and a high proportion isn't great.
Of course the numbers are relevant. The rest is important too but if it's affecting 5% of machines or 50% is definitely not unimportant and if I was a buyer, I'd want to know. There was a lot of noise around Jurassic Park playfields online but those seemed relatively isolated so I bought one. This seems like a far more extensive issue and knowing that matters.
No doubt about it. It’s got twice the hardware of any stern, never mind the coding..
OP
OP
Fair play, I see your point. I assumed (we all know how that goes) that everyone on this thread would be aware that these problems aren't limited to a very small percentage of machines based on the noise, and that if we accept that it isn't a rare issue then I don't think the specific numbers/percentages are relevant. If it was a rare issue then yes, I guess numbers are relevant to some degree.
My point though was that JJP have previously promised their customer base that it would be resolved in future runs, and it's still an issue with machines coming off the line now. They also aren't doing anything to resolve or make good those who have bought a faulty product. For me, that's a much bigger issue than the problem itself, as I tend to judge a company more on how they fix issues that crop up, as opposed to the mistakes that have been made.
Even if it was a rare issue, I still feel that JJP's response is the far more relevant issue than the numbers affected. You rolled the dice on Jurassic Park because the issues seemed isolated, but would you have done so if you knew Stern wouldn't do anything to resolve the problem if you got unlucky? I have a JPLE and within a few weeks of it arriving the powder coat on one of the side rails started chipping and Stern immediately sent out a new one without question. JJP seem to be firmly stuck with their head in the sand and unwilling to do anything to help - which is why I tend to think the numbers of machines with the problem isn't the crux of the issue. If you spend £10k on a pinball machine you should feel secure in the knowledge that if it's faulty then the issues will be resolved, no matter how uncommon said issue might be.
Essentially, given the overriding narrative here I can't help but view this as a failings of JJP issue, as opposed to a playfield chipping issue - because let's face it, if they'd fixed the problem on later runs and had taken steps to resolve the initial issues, then we wouldn't still be having this conversation.
Edit: Just wanted to add I don't have an axe to grind with JJP. I have a POTC LE which is easily in my top few games of all time. I just can't stand it when manufacturers put out a faulty product and don't take steps to fix the problem.
Last edited:
Yeah If JJP were absolutely falling over themselves to make things right for existing owners and for new machines it'd be WAY easier to view it sympathetically.
May help Col, as giving the clear cost longer could have a slim chance of helping.
Like ya say,let others prototype and be guinea pigs
Why the attack on James? Really uncalled for.