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Is the forum in a bit of a lull?

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Gonzo said:
I've stayed out of the subject as much out of respect for Col & Yeun as anything else. However, here's my thoughts for what their worth.

Sometimes being seen to do the right thing actually results in doing the wrong thing and this is a prime example.

Firstly, Col is sorry and somewhat embarrassed by the whole situation but his regret and repentance seems to carry no weight.

There is no forgiveness, no leeway given for having learnt his lesson, no acceptance that he's sorry and understands where he went wrong.

He has received the same public scolding that someone who wasn't sorry would have received. He felt absolutely terrible, particularly after reading Yeun's heartfelt post about growing up on the receiving end of racism.

He has been lectured at, patronised and damned with feint praise and even told to take time and reflect on his actions in the most condescending manner that totally ignored that he had already apologised and admitted his error. . . . in essence no further reflection was required.

However, the very worst of it was the fact that someone who has recently struggled with anxiety, cancer and just had major surgery was treated pretty poorly by people he knew. This is also a man who has done so much for the pinball community yet was afforded no mitigation or allowance at all. He was treated as a callous stranger rather than a friend.

Those who suggested that he could just walk back into the community in 6 months time clearly know nothing of the man or even human nature itself. He's embarrassed and doesn't really feel particularly keen to show his face at a public event or on here even once he is allowed off the naughty step. Somebody also mentioned that Col was only banned from the forum and not the community itself which shows zero understanding of the situation.

I'm quite certain that after numerous people had rebuked, lectured, signalled their virtue then informed him that he was lucky not to be reported to the police, Colin most certainly didn't feel part of any community any longer.

The truth of the matter is that there is not racism problem on this forum or in the community as a whole. Col used some outdated words, quickly realised his error and apologised. However some keep fighting the battle and lecturing about offensive language even though the issue was over as quickly as it happened.

I also feel really sorry for Yeun in all of this too, out of everybody him and his lovely family were the ones who should have been most impacted by this. He wrote a beautiful post and has personally been dragged into something which has been handled far too publicly.

Running a forum is hard . . . really hard. I have a football forum and have had to deal with this stuff myself and it ain't easy.

But the Colin I know is a kind and generous man who has done much for the community and his regret and standing should have carried some counter balance.

This has also been incredibly sh1t for his mental health which is another thing people love to virtue signal about. I have to say that I'm very uncomfortable with
ostracising a man with poor health and casting him aside for 6 months so I won't do it.

Colin is my friend and I'm proud to say so.
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Jeez, now I feel bad for Yeun and Col. I feel pretty bad about how this has somewhat divided the community, triggered people and left people feeling unsure if how they express themselves is socially acceptable in the modern world.

I vote for clemency for all deleted members, extend an olive branch and consolidate our pinball loving people.

After all, that's what we're all here for? Isn't it?
 
Pop Bumper Pete said:
I have seen succesful forums that had few rules /moderation
I have seen successful forums that were so tight anything off topic was deleted

If you want to run a tight ship, this thread should have been locked 3 pages ago.
(Moderating is hard, there will be no correspondence except for the people directly involved)
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I'm not a believer of strict moderation, and prefer for people to be able to air their opinions, this is a discussion forum after all. Hence why this thread is still open.
If we were draconian then i agree... this should have been locked ages ago. We arent, and i like to think that generally we are fairly leanient here. There are limits though.
Bobbdobalina said:
If threads start to get shut down repeatedly then this will just cause a build up of resentment.
I believe they should be left to run their course, let people air their thoughts and only locked if the thread turns nasty.
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There are lines that shouldnt be crossed. Everyone seems to know what they are, there shouldnt be a need to write things in T&C's as it's just common decency.

We should, as a community, understand what happened in the past, and use that to make sure that it doesnt happen in the future.
 
Some things I've learnt about running football forums since 2007.

1: People who advocate closing threads tend to be relatively infrequent posters.

2: Those who complain most frequently tend post seldomly (there are exceptions of course).

3: Closing threads has a sizeable impact on site traffic (although the previous one probably needed to be locked).

4: You'll never please everyone.

5: Thread starters and regular contributors are the lifeblood of a forum.

6: Those who advocate banning usually have a relatively low post count. The Neil issue is a great case in point and I say this as someone who has not always seen eye to eye with him. But a couple of people who were most vocal about Neil's removal have barely posted on here since.

7: Cliques form on forums, always have and always will. However WhatsAPP has been a game changer. Whilst my footie forum always gets used for comments on football matches and player transfers, much of the chit-chat has gone to WhatsAPP.


That being said, the lack of new pinball machines, exciting new releases and a general lull in the hobby will absolutely be a factor as will increasing prices and diminishing budgets. Take away two massive characters in Neil & Col, who were both prolific posters and thread starters and it's a bit of a perfect storm.

I don't mean to be any way condescending to forum staff who do have an incredibly hard job to keep everyone happy . . . it's actually an impossible task.


I just wonder, whilst we're all preaching tolerance, decency and other assorted lovely stuff if there might be a bit of tolerance and forgiveness thrown in the direction of Neil & Col?
 
I wasn't going to post anything on here but as I'm currently laid up in A&E with a drip in my arm bored waiting for test results to come back why not?

To answer the initial question - is there a lull?

Yes there is, there always is around this time of the year - people start reengaging with their summer hobbies, going on holidays, we're still a while away from the bigger shows like Swavesey and Pinfest so there's no chatter about that yet.

In addition for many reasons people simply aren't buying machines in the numbers we've seen over the last few years. This can be put down to lots of new people entering the hobby since Covid, buying NIB and filling their games rooms, or buying 2nd hand thus freeing up space and funds for longer term people to rotate their machines.

Lots of people are also struggling financially, and buying a new, or 2nd hand machine is bottom of their priorities.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned anywhere is that due to the reduction in national tournaments (I'll come to that later) and PBR & Electric Circus closing people aren't getting to see the latest machines as much, few people are willing to layout for a new machine without playing it first. There's probably a dozen machines that have been released I haven't played, or even seen yet. Unheard of a couple of years ago!

There's also a lack of people mingling with people outside their own regions - only seeing each other at smaller local tournaments, if at all - which also further segregated people.


I don't believe it is down to Col being banned, or Neil being expelled, although it may have a small impact.

From my own experience I have been personally attacked on here by a number of people,(All bar one are still active here) most of I've just been able to ignore, but the persistent harassment and bullying from Neil, led me to suffer from mental health issues and feeling that I needed to give up the running of competitions such as the Xmas Cracker, The League, The League Finals and other comps I had planned. I also gave up being the UK IFPA coordinator - voice to try and look after the UK players interests - but instead was ridiculed for not running a competition worth 1 million WPPRs!

Not feeling able to comment on a particular thread for concern of it then turning into another personal attack if they don't agree with my view is another reason.

I've seen a number of threads when someone has asked for help with a particular issue, and instantly people are giving 'advice' when it is actually clear that they don't know what they're talking about. Why would they do this? Do they like seeing their words on the screen so much? There used to be lots of people who were quick to offer help, but don't any more. I can't speak for them, but I'd someone has already posted a ridiculous 'solution ' I just don't have the will to correct or argue.

People saying they miss the banter, or humour, should probably try to remember that this is a pinball forum - where pinball is usually the main focus of topics.
If there's nothing much happening in the pinball scene there's not a lot to talk about.
 
Wayne J said:
From my own experience I have been personally attacked on here by a number of people,(All bar one are still active here) most of I've just been able to ignore, but the persistent harassment and bullying from Neil, led me to suffer from mental health issues and feeling that I needed to give up the running of competitions such as the Xmas Cracker, The League, The League Finals and other comps I had planned. I also gave up being the UK IFPA coordinator - voice to try and look after the UK players interests - but instead was ridiculed for not running a competition worth 1 million WPPRs!
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I'm so sorry :( I totally sympathise - Neil also bullied me (obviously, much less). To share, in the hope it makes you feel better... First, when I first started posting on non-technical topics because I stuck up for someone he was picking on. At the time, I thought he was really important and everyone agreed with him, and I almost stopped posting.

Then, he picked on me in real life last year when I hosted my first London and SE League tournament. He kept organising event dates to clash with mine and I thought it was accidental, but - then - it became obvious on Facebook (on a post someone kindly screen-shotted for me) that it was deliberate.

He also kept having a go at me (again, on Facebook) about being rubbish at tournament pinball, which eventually backfired when I beat him in matchplay 😈

I've subsequently tried to be friendly to him in person, as he does a lot for the community. No hard feelings.

Take care and get well soon 🫂
 
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To be fair Vee, in one of your previous posts, I can't remember your exact words, but you pretty much called everyone that didn't go to university a moron.

This upset a lot of people and can also be classed as bullying. None of us are perfect.
 
Wayne J said:
I wasn't going to post anything on here but as I'm currently laid up in A&E with a drip in my arm bored waiting for test results to come back why not?

From my own experience I have been personally attacked on here by a number of people,(All bar one are still active here) most of I've just been able to ignore, but the persistent harassment and bullying from Neil, led me to suffer from mental health issues and feeling that I needed to give up the running of competitions such as the Xmas Cracker, The League, The League Finals and other comps I had planned. I also gave up being the UK IFPA coordinator - voice to try and look after the UK players interests - but instead was ridiculed for not running a competition worth 1 million WPPRs!

Not feeling able to comment on a particular thread for concern of it then turning into another personal attack if they don't agree with my view is another reason.
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Some of the newer members on here may not know that I ran the UK Pinball League for 9 years from around 2008 to 2016 and along with Craig set up and ran the UKCS for several years too, so I can certainly empathise with Wayne because from personal experience, the.bickering, complaining in general and lack of appreciation for all the work involved contributed to my decision to step down after all this time and Wayne took the league over from me to ultimately find a not too dissimilar situation.

I've no issue with banter nor helpful suggestions but what gets me is that this hobby is meant to be fun and a distraction from day-to-day issues and the last thing you want is to get grief from something that is meant to give you pleasure.
 
For anyone here relatively new to this community just because Col and Neil are currently banned don't be comparing them. One has brought pleasure and joy to many on here and made one dumb but punishable mistake. The other is a.... well I don't want to get banned.
 
Tucks said:
To be fair Vee, in one of your previous posts, I can't remember your exact words, but you pretty much called everyone that didn't go to university a moron.

This upset a lot of people and can also be classed as bullying. None of us are perfect.
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I didn’t. A couple of people interpreted it that way. I tried to explain what I actually meant, but the thread had moved on, and everyone else just piled onto the misinterpretation because my original post was TLDR 😭

As I say, I personally sympathise with what I suspect is Neil’s real situation. I think he likes to joke and banter, has passionate views on all things pinball, and a fair bit of it lands like a neutronium anvil.
 
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@VeeMonroe - I'm not going to quote the parts of your posts I'm referring to here to avoid bringing further attention to them, but I really don't think it's appropriate to be making these types of alluding comments regarding Neil. Nor anyone else for that matter.
 
Would a community poll vote not settle this or do the powers that be gone to the dark side. I don't understand why Neil was banned and same can be said for Col.
I give Neil as good as I get and never had an issue where I thought he needed to be banned and I have only ever heard good reports about Mr 3D colyprinter.

What has changed never heard of 'woke' till I seen it on this thread so had to look it up. Seems times have changed from old times if were going down this BS road.

Pinball is Pinball all hobbies and real life have their characters either love them or hate them there still humans and if you cant get along then just use the ignore button and if we dont have one then I ask Paul to add one.

I am still butt hurt over being accused of damaging Neil's car at last years pinfest that I am still waiting for them to send me an apology message.

Plus side to all this is I can avoid peeps


Just my 2 cents
 
I am still butt hurt over being accused of damaging Neil's car at last years pinfest that I am still waiting for them to send me an apology message.
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Who did that? We never did get a definitive answer on that one - i would hate to think they're coming to Pinfest again to possibly do damage on a car etc..
 
Fubar said:
Can I please nominate @Gonzo as candidate for moderator of this forum?!
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Well there is still a vacancy since I retired from front line admin/mod duties. No qualifications needed - just an encyclopedic knowledge of Popeye and an ability to never ever shut up about it , and posting Waynes World and Apocalypse Now gifs :D

I miss the old days on here , but seeing this absolute skip fire 🔥 of a thread I don't envy the Admin crew and quite glad I'm out of it tbh :confused:

Just for old times sake ....




 
Fubar said:
Can I please nominate @Gonzo as candidate for moderator of this forum?!
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Cheers Thomas mate but it's a thankless task and one I'd rather swerve . . . . Social media etc is the day job so I'm flat out with this stuff anyway albeit with sport rather than pinball.

On the plus side I have managed to use what little spare time I have to join the TNA club and I'm currently getting whooped by my son on a daily basis. 😬
 
Gonzo said:
On the plus side I have managed to use what little spare time I have to join the TNA club and I'm currently getting whooped by my son on a daily basis. 😬
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Glad to hear your son is playing regularly again - I'm looking forward to the day one of my own kids beats me at pinball :)

Conversely I've temporarily got a Deadpool at home which is proving to be way more addictive than I thought it would be 😎
 
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