Jib
Site Supporter
Here's the part where I get called woke. It stood out to me when I read them when they were first rewritten, as though it wasn't as important...
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Is the forum in a bit of a lull?
- Thread starter JAG555
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PinballNoobie
Site Supporter
Speciesism please!
This thread has created a few heated points where I am sure people have got caught in a gun fight they didn’t intend.
On the sexism front, we will continue to moderate it as it is an obvious prejudice.
Please report it.
On the sexism front, we will continue to moderate it as it is an obvious prejudice.
Please report it.
I had to sell my games when I lost my job a few years back, but still like to keep up to date with pinball matters and like the creativity and different topics that come up here.
I’ve bought a guitar, amp, attended gigs, learnt to make curries and met some great people I otherwise wouldn’t have done, so I really value this forum, the people who maintain it and the community it serves.
I don’t think I’ve played a game of pinball in over a year, yet somehow I login here several times a day, so we’re doing something right.
Great response and good to hear people still come on here, despite being out of pinball for a whileI had to sell my games when I lost my job a few years back, but still like to keep up to date with pinball matters and like the creativity and different topics that come up here.
I’ve bought a guitar, amp, attended gigs, learnt to make curries and met some great people I otherwise wouldn’t have done, so I really value this forum, the people who maintain it and the community it serves.
I don’t think I’ve played a game of pinball in over a year, yet somehow I login here several times a day, so we’re doing something right.
Well, as I feel much the same as Mr. Fox, I'm also clearly by extension also a bigot and a bad person.
Just as well I don't go to meetings and shows then, eh?
I just KNEW someone would have much the same views as Mr. Fox and promptly get offended
Oh well, hurray for viewpoint diversity in pinball, eh!! 
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Ashbo
Site Supporter
Would keep the forums fresh & minty!Can we please call this “Col gate” going forward. I think he’s earned it
I'll get my coat.
Can we please call this “Col gate” going forward. I think he’s earned it
And the ability to wash your mouth afterwards
You said “shoot” that’s threatening behaviourSo who do I have to shoot to get invited to these whats app groups or new forum? lol
Just in case anyone interested, touring again
John mate what have you done!
Most unprofessional commedian i have ever had the displeasure of paying money to go and see.....
... Who had a heckler, stormed off stage, and refused to come back on until they promised not to say another word...
paulg100
Site Supporter
remember seeing Bernard Manning live, was past his prime but still knew how to handle a heckler.
Was in a time when people weren't "mentally traumatized" by words and didnt think they had the right to tell you what you can and cant find funny
Was in a time when people weren't "mentally traumatized" by words and didnt think they had the right to tell you what you can and cant find funny
This is my story and opinions on the hobby as of today.....
I got into pinball in the very late 90s. Since the early 2000's they have been part of my living - either repairing them or buying/selling them.
Personally I live in a terraced house. i am not rich. I am not middle class even. Working class.
Gone are the days when I was selling fully restored AFMs for £3K. Gone are the days I had ToM/MM/TSPP in a line in my front room. I have owned over the years probably 400-500 machines (a hell of a lot of CV's and ToM's).
Have bought NIB three times. These in the early 2000s - except for Super Hoop that as it was a budget machine - I am not counting that.
£10k for a machine that stands in the corner of the room is a luxury to me now. I have paid much less for vehicles I work with. I do not think they are worth it for the new cost.
The hobby is now a rich man's play thing. Gone are the days that people expect to loose money on certain NIB games - because of price increases used prices go up.
With all the price increases there will be fewer people getting into pinball. I used to sell so many 90s games to people who wanted to have a bit of fun with £700 in their garages or man caves. You can buy a lot of other arcade games now with a price of a pinball.
There is a lull because of the high cost of even an old 80s game being a grand.
The hobby has lost people who are possibly a bit older who have a bit of spare income and space after the kids leave home.
Currently I think, we are loosing the players grade tables - as the amount of people who are restoring games now has multiplied - which also means the price of older games rocket.
Seems to be a lot of folk who kind of use pinballs as an investment.
Now I have zero pinball machines in my home.
I got into pinball in the very late 90s. Since the early 2000's they have been part of my living - either repairing them or buying/selling them.
Personally I live in a terraced house. i am not rich. I am not middle class even. Working class.
Gone are the days when I was selling fully restored AFMs for £3K. Gone are the days I had ToM/MM/TSPP in a line in my front room. I have owned over the years probably 400-500 machines (a hell of a lot of CV's and ToM's).
Have bought NIB three times. These in the early 2000s - except for Super Hoop that as it was a budget machine - I am not counting that.
£10k for a machine that stands in the corner of the room is a luxury to me now. I have paid much less for vehicles I work with. I do not think they are worth it for the new cost.
The hobby is now a rich man's play thing. Gone are the days that people expect to loose money on certain NIB games - because of price increases used prices go up.
With all the price increases there will be fewer people getting into pinball. I used to sell so many 90s games to people who wanted to have a bit of fun with £700 in their garages or man caves. You can buy a lot of other arcade games now with a price of a pinball.
There is a lull because of the high cost of even an old 80s game being a grand.
The hobby has lost people who are possibly a bit older who have a bit of spare income and space after the kids leave home.
Currently I think, we are loosing the players grade tables - as the amount of people who are restoring games now has multiplied - which also means the price of older games rocket.
Seems to be a lot of folk who kind of use pinballs as an investment.
Now I have zero pinball machines in my home.
I assume this wasn't in Glasgow for you but I had the same thing with him. He performed at the Armadillo in Glasgow 10ish years ago. Someone heckled him and he walked off then the house lights went up and we were told to beat it. Got the money refunded for the gig....but by that point the hotel was paid for and we'd bought some massively overpriced pints at the venue. I had thought his storming off stage was a one off. It even made the news in Scotland as Ally McCoist was in the audience and said something following it so the news pounced on it for a cheap story.
Nope - Bristol.
Basically the same story... however audience "agreed" and he sheepishly came back on.
Most commedians (Male and Female) can easilly put down a heckler at a moments notice. Its part of their training. It's a poor reflection on the person themselves if they cant
exact same thing with Chubby Brown at Leicester Demont.
Lit a fire mate!
I've stayed out of the subject as much out of respect for Col & Yeun as anything else. However, here's my thoughts for what their worth.
Sometimes being seen to do the right thing actually results in doing the wrong thing and this is a prime example.
Firstly, Col is sorry and somewhat embarrassed by the whole situation but his regret and repentance seems to carry no weight.
There is no forgiveness, no leeway given for having learnt his lesson, no acceptance that he's sorry and understands where he went wrong.
He has received the same public scolding that someone who wasn't sorry would have received. He felt absolutely terrible, particularly after reading Yeun's heartfelt post about growing up on the receiving end of racism.
He has been lectured at, patronised and damned with feint praise and even told to take time and reflect on his actions in the most condescending manner that totally ignored that he had already apologised and admitted his error. . . . in essence no further reflection was required.
However, the very worst of it was the fact that someone who has recently struggled with anxiety, cancer and just had major surgery was treated pretty poorly by people he knew. This is also a man who has done so much for the pinball community yet was afforded no mitigation or allowance at all. He was treated as a callous stranger rather than a friend.
Those who suggested that he could just walk back into the community in 6 months time clearly know nothing of the man or even human nature itself. He's embarrassed and doesn't really feel particularly keen to show his face at a public event or on here even once he is allowed off the naughty step. Somebody also mentioned that Col was only banned from the forum and not the community itself which shows zero understanding of the situation.
I'm quite certain that after numerous people had rebuked, lectured, signalled their virtue then informed him that he was lucky not to be reported to the police, Colin most certainly didn't feel part of any community any longer.
The truth of the matter is that there is not racism problem on this forum or in the community as a whole. Col used some outdated words, quickly realised his error and apologised. However some keep fighting the battle and lecturing about offensive language even though the issue was over as quickly as it happened.
I also feel really sorry for Yeun in all of this too, out of everybody him and his lovely family were the ones who should have been most impacted by this. He wrote a beautiful post and has personally been dragged into something which has been handled far too publicly.
Running a forum is hard . . . really hard. I have a football forum and have had to deal with this stuff myself and it ain't easy.
But the Colin I know is a kind and generous man who has done much for the community and his regret and standing should have carried some counter balance.
This has also been incredibly sh1t for his mental health which is another thing people love to virtue signal about. I have to say that I'm very uncomfortable with
ostracising a man with poor health and casting him aside for 6 months so I won't do it.
Colin is my friend and I'm proud to say so.
Sometimes being seen to do the right thing actually results in doing the wrong thing and this is a prime example.
Firstly, Col is sorry and somewhat embarrassed by the whole situation but his regret and repentance seems to carry no weight.
There is no forgiveness, no leeway given for having learnt his lesson, no acceptance that he's sorry and understands where he went wrong.
He has received the same public scolding that someone who wasn't sorry would have received. He felt absolutely terrible, particularly after reading Yeun's heartfelt post about growing up on the receiving end of racism.
He has been lectured at, patronised and damned with feint praise and even told to take time and reflect on his actions in the most condescending manner that totally ignored that he had already apologised and admitted his error. . . . in essence no further reflection was required.
However, the very worst of it was the fact that someone who has recently struggled with anxiety, cancer and just had major surgery was treated pretty poorly by people he knew. This is also a man who has done so much for the pinball community yet was afforded no mitigation or allowance at all. He was treated as a callous stranger rather than a friend.
Those who suggested that he could just walk back into the community in 6 months time clearly know nothing of the man or even human nature itself. He's embarrassed and doesn't really feel particularly keen to show his face at a public event or on here even once he is allowed off the naughty step. Somebody also mentioned that Col was only banned from the forum and not the community itself which shows zero understanding of the situation.
I'm quite certain that after numerous people had rebuked, lectured, signalled their virtue then informed him that he was lucky not to be reported to the police, Colin most certainly didn't feel part of any community any longer.
The truth of the matter is that there is not racism problem on this forum or in the community as a whole. Col used some outdated words, quickly realised his error and apologised. However some keep fighting the battle and lecturing about offensive language even though the issue was over as quickly as it happened.
I also feel really sorry for Yeun in all of this too, out of everybody him and his lovely family were the ones who should have been most impacted by this. He wrote a beautiful post and has personally been dragged into something which has been handled far too publicly.
Running a forum is hard . . . really hard. I have a football forum and have had to deal with this stuff myself and it ain't easy.
But the Colin I know is a kind and generous man who has done much for the community and his regret and standing should have carried some counter balance.
This has also been incredibly sh1t for his mental health which is another thing people love to virtue signal about. I have to say that I'm very uncomfortable with
ostracising a man with poor health and casting him aside for 6 months so I won't do it.
Colin is my friend and I'm proud to say so.
Can I just clarify that I did not take any deep offense by what was said - I was just pointing out that words aren't always harmless and took the opportunity to share my own experience. It's really very sad to hear about the fallout from this and I wish Col the best - I completely understand there was no malintent.
This
If a long-standing community member uses outdated racist language, once, for the first time, the approach should *always* be to gently ‘call them in’ (the social justice term), maybe give a slap on the wrist (to discourage repeat offenders), and move on. Sure, if they come back and start firing off vile racisms everywhere, ban them, but that should never be a first step.
People make sincere boo-boos, especially in online environments where they might be sharing unfiltered thoughts with others from varied backgrounds in public for the first time.
The result of these zero tolerance approaches (and this comes from a decade of first/second-hand observation now) is that otherwise well-meaning people become defensive, afraid to say anything for fear of messing up, and - eventually - angry and resentful.
I don’t know what anyone was expecting Col to do with a 6-month ban. Go on a 5-month EDI course? Either he’s going to feel crap with a short ban after reading Yuen’s post (as he’s obviously done), or he’s a dyed-in-the-wool a-hole, which would become obvious once he returned to the forum.
It’s 100% not you. Don’t feel bad or guilty. Genuinely, you did absolutely 100% the right thing, are a class act and have been throughout
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I have seen succesful forums that had few rules /moderation
I have seen successful forums that were so tight anything off topic was deleted
If you want to run a tight ship, this thread should have been locked 3 pages ago.
(Moderating is hard, there will be no correspondence except for the people directly involved)
I have seen successful forums that were so tight anything off topic was deleted
If you want to run a tight ship, this thread should have been locked 3 pages ago.
(Moderating is hard, there will be no correspondence except for the people directly involved)
I found the notion of reporting this to the police laughable. We have marches in London every weekend with antisemitic and racist chants and the police do nothing.
You can have your house burgled and the police don't even come to your house. And yes, this did happen to me.
People need to get a grip of reality.
You can have your house burgled and the police don't even come to your house. And yes, this did happen to me.
People need to get a grip of reality.
Bobbdobalina
Site Supporter
If threads start to get shut down repeatedly then this will just cause a build up of resentment.
I believe they should be left to run their course, let people air their thoughts and only locked if the thread turns nasty.
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