Guys if you love pinball what’s the harm you buy what you like 
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Has the bubble burst.........
- Thread starter JAG555
- Start date
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Deleted member 2463
I'm paying £200 a month to store 15 games in London.
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Deleted member 2463
Several LEs have changed hands, I think Bond LE sold more than Rush LE but last two games in LE/Premium form haven't sold well from Stern - Rush is a fantastic game ruined by **** music. Both suffered in the wake of Godzilla hence why Keith's next game is so far away (or was). Foo has sold better. Those who bought Bond 60th aren't likely to need to sell it. AIQ LE is a more interesting title with a minty one on eBay not selling although I know someone who will pay close for it because its in such good condition.
three stranger things pro have sold in the last 6 months, two went for 6.5K one went for 8K - its a 6.5K game no question about it and Stern will announce the new run shortly but also a strong rumour that Stern are considering bringing forward Venom so they can get Jaws out in December.
8K I think is a reasonable price for a recent premium now. Pro's 7K but those thinking they won't lose some money on an new game are nuts IMO.
@Neil McRae as someone who’s just put up an advert mentioning 2nd hand Spike 2’s, this is useful information. Thanks
Kelsbells
Site Supporter
Neil have you got the heads up that stern have got the license again for stranger things,? They’ve been messaging US distributors recently saying they hoped to get license but no more than that
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ian866
Site Supporter
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Deleted member 2463
I've had no heads up, but they will get the license and they will do the game again, they will want to do it ahead of Jaws.
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Deleted member 2463
Keith Elwin. Borg has allegedly completed a remake of Indiana Jones - I find that hard to believe but kinda hope its true as the previous game was shocking.
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Deleted member 2463
Wayne tells me it all.
Well if you want to give me ST LE money for my ST Pro+ I’ll do free delivery and I’ll buy you an ice cream of your choice from Scoops
Kelsbells
Site Supporter
I think the nearest scoops is in Hawkins so you may blow the extra LE money I give you on the flight to Indiana to get me my ice cream !Well if you want to give me ST LE money for my ST Pro+ I’ll do free delivery and I’ll buy you an ice cream of your choice from Scoops
Jaws, Venom and IJ have been rumoured for a while
This what I don’t get with pinball. It’s so stupidly secret and of course, things always leak. If you compare it to say video games or say films, they confirm the title well before the release to stop all of this BS.
So as not to harm sales allegedly, more likely mainly down to licensing
Which I still find odd. Take Hogwarts Legacy as an example, that game was announced about 2 years before it came out and obviously didn’t hurt sales at all.
It’s only this strange hobby that seem to do this.
I suspect it’s more a legacy thing.
A film company would do **** loads of publicity for their film. You’d pop into a pub and a game based on that film would be there.
Job done for WMS etc
The idea of having to actually market your game wasn’t high on the list.
Fast forward 30 years and the companies still haven’t really got to grips with it.
A film company would do **** loads of publicity for their film. You’d pop into a pub and a game based on that film would be there.
Job done for WMS etc
The idea of having to actually market your game wasn’t high on the list.
Fast forward 30 years and the companies still haven’t really got to grips with it.
This is extremely interesting and pertinent, and raises some interesting points.
I’m currently advertising for a JP2. Looking at the Stern production schedule, I can get a NIB Pro with two years’ warranty from Phil from the October run, and it looks like some Premiums are coming in this month. Obviously, I’d prefer a premium, but they’re mega-bucks NIB. So, I’m advertising for a second-hand pin.
I’ve had some Pro offers for almost the same price as a NIB Pro. But, from the POV of a buyer, it’s unclear why, unless I was mega-impatient and needed a pin RIGHT NOW, I would want to buy a second-hand Pro for almost the same price as a NIB one. What am I getting for that price? What’s the benefit of that second-hand machine given I’m getting almost no discount, it’s second-hand, it going to have to be moved out of box (with risk of cab damage) and has no warranty.
And that’s the problem with the idea that these pins are holding their value. When Stern had a production backlog due to the pandemic, it was taking so long for people to get Godzilla - for example - that the throttling of supply was keeping second-hand Spike 2 prices high. Now, it’s not clear (to me) what’s holding up the second-hand prices on the Spike 2s that have been in production for a while and are still in production. They’re not rare and someone already willing to spend £7.5k+ on a pin is probably going to be willing to pay £1k extra for a new one…
Jib
Site Supporter
I dunno I'd say 6k is a significant discount from nib, that's not a 1k discount its a 2.6k discount, unless you have a secret place you can get nib pros for 7k in which case please share lol. Also I think there's a price when you want to sell and a price when you're not looking to sell but could be tempted. I think just this thread has some people 2nd guessing buying anything used, a few weeks ago at least 4 people were willing to spend 8k on a STh pro and now no one wants or can move on one for 7.6kThis is extremely interesting and pertinent, and raises some interesting points.
I’m currently advertising for a JP2. Looking at the Stern production schedule, I can get a NIB Pro with two years’ warranty from Phil from the October run, and it looks like some Premiums are coming in this month. Obviously, I’d prefer a premium, but they’re mega-bucks NIB. So, I’m advertising for a second-hand pin.
I’ve had some Pro offers for almost the same price as a NIB Pro. But, from the POV of a buyer, it’s unclear why, unless I was mega-impatient and needed a pin RIGHT NOW, I would want to buy a second-hand Pro for almost the same price as a NIB one. What am I getting for that price? What’s the benefit of that second-hand machine given I’m getting almost no discount, it’s second-hand, it going to have to be moved out of box (with risk of cab damage) and has no warranty.
And that’s the problem with the idea that these pins are holding their value. When Stern had a production backlog due to the pandemic, it was taking so long for people to get Godzilla - for example - that the throttling of supply was keeping second-hand Spike 2 prices high. Now, it’s not clear (to me) what’s holding up the second-hand prices on the Spike 2s that have been in production for a while and are still in production. They’re not rare and someone already willing to spend £6k+ on a pin is probably going to be willing to pay £1k extra for a new one…
Edit - you edited your post to say 7.5k instead of 6k so now my post makes no sense
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Jib
Site Supporter
but it did say 6k!
Yes, sorry, miscommunication. My husband noticed and I promptly changed it!
And you’re right about the two prices. My husband told me not to put up a Wanted ad as I’d just get a load of unmotivated sellers. He said I should just wait until someone actually put one up for sale. I figured that a) someone might want a committed buyer well in advance and b) I’ve had a lot of success in the past with loudly announcing pins I want, so people let me know when they see one on Gumtree/FB
Yes, sorry, miscommunication. My husband noticed and I promptly changed it!
And you’re right about the two prices. My husband told me not to put up a Wanted ad as I’d just get a load of unmotivated sellers. He said I should just wait until someone actually put one up for sale. I figured that a) someone might want a committed buyer well in advance and b) I’ve had a lot of success in the past with loudly announcing pins I want, so people let me know when they see one on Gumtree/FB
One of the problems with Wanted Ads is that any offers are done over PM, so the prices are not subject to the community opinion (which unlike others, I think is important).
When I had my trade advert up, you would not believe the prices some people valued their games at! It was laughable and eye watering at the same time!
I had a wanted ad for JP2 late last year and was offered a low plays stock condition one for 6.5k. Don't think I'd have bought it if the price started with a 7. (Or an eight for that matter!)
The market is pretty small so there is a lot of jitter in sale frequencies. It's really a question of having the right people (buyer and seller) at the right time.
Regarding NIB the question for me is once the £12k prems are in stock will they sell? From memory PH had a GZ prem in stock for quite a long time. If people don't buy NIBs they buy used and so the 2nd hand market for stern pro/prem will go down (more demand). The batch which went up for sale today will be a good test...
The market is pretty small so there is a lot of jitter in sale frequencies. It's really a question of having the right people (buyer and seller) at the right time.
Regarding NIB the question for me is once the £12k prems are in stock will they sell? From memory PH had a GZ prem in stock for quite a long time. If people don't buy NIBs they buy used and so the 2nd hand market for stern pro/prem will go down (more demand). The batch which went up for sale today will be a good test...
I highly doubt anyone is letting a HUO Pro go for £6k when NIB are £8.6k.
I always ask myself how much is 2 year warranty worth? My Turtles was better than new with all the extras it had, had zero issues with it so when I moved it on it didn't cost me a penny to own, and this was pre-covid madness.
£1k is still a significant amount of money for some people so for me a nice used Pin is preferable to NIB if I save £1k+, and I take a chance nothing major breaks.
I think it depends on whether you’re planning to keep the pin, as well. I’ve been playing JP2 on location routinely for 18 months now and we had a big conversation, when we bought Godzilla, about whether it would be better to own JP2 or GZ.
So, if I get a JP2, it’s likely not leaving. Stern certainly aren’t going to make something I prefer because, with GZ, they’ve found a profitable accessibility/fun/challenge formula and JP2 is quite frankly not it. Thus, if I get a second-hand JP2, I’m losing a full two years of warranty. Also, I do my own modding, so the worst thing imaginable is getting someone else’s random mods on a permanent pin - I’m just going to be stripping those straight out and, if they’re worth anything, having the hassle of selling them. The only mods I‘ve appreciated on any of my pins is someone being nice enough to put LEDs in a 90s B/W to save my acrylic nails. Genuinely, I even rip off and replace Titan rubbers because they’re never the colours I like.
Not that there’s anything wrong with your perspective (same one we had with our temporarily-resident PinBot), but a seller is cutting their market if they’re trying to charge full cost on mods (for example) and/or selling with only £1k off NIB - because not everyone will see the value.
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Sounds like you should buy NIB then.
Life must be pretty sweet if that's the worst thing imaginable
.I can’t justify paying >£10k for a NIB Prem. I’m looking for a Pro at £6.5k or a Prem at £8-9k. I’ve been told by the ‘How Much Is It Worth’ thread and by other posters on here, including by DM, that this is not remotely unrealistic. People have bought recently at these prices.
The modding thing isn’t that I hate mods. It’s that people are spending £1-2k on mods and then expecting to recoup the entire mod cost, plus some wage for the time spent installing them (the actual buy cost on the mods and the price premium simply doesn’t add up). So, the actual cost of the pin ends up being pretty-much the NIB price with the justification being ‘it’s fully loaded’ (long list of mods). So, obviously, given they’re usually not my choice of mods, I’d rather have a near stock pin where I’m not being expected to pay £200 for a £119 shaker motor. Maybe I’m naive, but this shocked me a little because it doesn’t happen (to the same extent) with vintage pins - usually mods only come as part of a decent restoration.
I genuinely think there’s going to be a bit of a course correction on some of the Spike 2s (hence, the reason for posting on this thread) because people are expecting a massive queue of buyers, and for an environment where pins are going for the same price as they were bought (plus/minus £200 for a £100 shaker motor). This was happening during the pandemic, because of the growth of games rooms/lack of critical computer parts, but isn’t the case now. There’s also *a lot* of some of the Spike 2s, and - unlike a fair few vintage pins - people swap them out regularly for the latest models.
Life must be pretty sweet if that's the worst thing imaginable
I exaggerate. I’m exaggerating because I’m feeling a little cross. And the reason is because, as @JAG555 points out, people on this forum are great at publicly commenting on price and protecting other forum members. But, as soon as you get into DMs, there are some (different) people like “I’ve added some rubbers and a plastic tree and now my Pro is worth £50k” (again, massive exaggeration for effect) and I’m cross because someone newer to the hobby might get ripped off.
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Vee, weren’t you arguing a year ago that low secondhand prices were hurting pinball? 
Frankly, prices are currently all over the shop. Look at the thread with the new Sterns listed. Even before the VAT they are at a level that kills any interest for me.
I’m honestly amazed that anyone new is coming into the hobby. I struggled to justify £500 on my first game. It was probably about 25-30% of my take home pay for the month which seemed outrageous. Now an entry level game is £3.5-£4K which is more than I earn a month despite being far more senior in my job. As a newbie I wasn’t interested in whether a game would hold it’s value (I assumed it would be worthless later on.) All I looked at was how much it cost and would I get bored of it? The dynamics have changed completely.
But new people somehow are still entering the hobby. Energy prices, food inflation, house inflation etc don’t seem to be stopping them.
Frankly, prices are currently all over the shop. Look at the thread with the new Sterns listed. Even before the VAT they are at a level that kills any interest for me.
I’m honestly amazed that anyone new is coming into the hobby. I struggled to justify £500 on my first game. It was probably about 25-30% of my take home pay for the month which seemed outrageous. Now an entry level game is £3.5-£4K which is more than I earn a month despite being far more senior in my job. As a newbie I wasn’t interested in whether a game would hold it’s value (I assumed it would be worthless later on.) All I looked at was how much it cost and would I get bored of it? The dynamics have changed completely.
But new people somehow are still entering the hobby. Energy prices, food inflation, house inflation etc don’t seem to be stopping them.
Different market situation. Pins weren’t coming into the market a year ago, but there were lots of buyers around, so I figured - if prices went up a bit - more people might be coaxed to sell. Now, there are a tonne of pins sitting unsold, so prices are evidently too highVee, weren’t you arguing a year ago that low secondhand prices were hurting pinball?
Only during the pandemic in the UK, I think. It wasn’t like anyone was going out or on holiday. It’s obvious there are people with mega-bucks in the States, i.e. whole massive rooms full of modern Sterns/JJPs and multiple NIB on order. But it’s a bigger country, housing is cheaper there and they haven’t had Brexit.
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