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Has the bubble burst.........

Marvello said:
I highly doubt anyone is letting a HUO Pro go for £6k when NIB are £8.6k.
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well they try to sell at a higher price and fail for the most part. i got a pro for 6K that was on eBay for £8500 one for £6500 that was advertised at 8K. folks paying more than 7K for a pro are the reason for this stupid market. until folks walk away above that price expect to see 10K NIB Pros Soon.
 
Neil McRae said:
well they try to sell at a higher price and fail for the most part. i got a pro for 6K that was on eBay for £8500 one for £6500 that was advertised at 8K. folks paying more than 7K for a pro are the reason for this stupid market. until folks walk away above that price expect to see 10K NIB Pros Soon.
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One swallow doesn't make a summer. Advertising a Pro for £8500 is obviously ridiculous, and you say yourself you paid more than £6000 for one. If a nice HUO Pro came up for £7000 I'd choose that over a NIB one at £8600.
 
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Neil McRae said:
7K is a fair price for an up to year old game. It’s the jokers that think their three year old IMDN pro can be sold for 7K or 8K
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Yes, I’m not asking for a second-hand Rush Pro here…

I’m pitching to the “you bought a JP2 Pro/Prem made in 2019, are bored of the sight of it and now want a change” demographic.
 
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JAG555 said:
Which I still find odd. Take Hogwarts Legacy as an example, that game was announced about 2 years before it came out and obviously didn’t hurt sales at all.

It’s only this strange hobby that seem to do this.
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Yeah, it can't be a money issue.

If Stern announced today that Venom was coming in the summer and Jaws in December it would be good marketing and they'd get pre-sales.

I don't know why they're so secretive though.

Pinball doesn't have more to protect than say Panasonic or Sony but they're happy to build a bit of hype ahead of new releases.
 
Gonzo said:
Yeah, it can't be a money issue.

If Stern announced today that Venom was coming in the summer and Jaws in December it would be good marketing and they'd get pre-sales.

I don't know why they're so secretive though.
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Inexperienced/incompetent PR/marketing team. I encounter loads of it in journalism. People don't know what is okay to say and lack confidence, so they act like they're in a James Bond film (pun intended).

The more incompetent the person/organisation, the worse the secrecy problem becomes. The most comedic I've ever had was work experience on a local newspaper where a councillor was so scared of the press that he refused to verbally confirm which breeds of birds were on a leaflet we'd been sent about a kids' fun-day until he got approval from his PR team. It's like IT'S ON THE FRICKING LEAFLET WE BOTH HAVE IN FRONT OF US, YOU NITWIT 🤯
 
Gonzo said:
If Stern announced today that Venom was coming in the summer and Jaws in December it would be good marketing and they'd get pre-sales.
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I'm not so sure on that one Kris, if people know that it's definite a must have is down the road, the next 'meh' release could tank. People are less likely to jump on the fomo bandwagon with prices as they are now.
 
Are you saying that if Venom was announced for summer and BTTF was for December, then they wouldn't sell less Venom? But at the moment, not knowing BTTF is ever coming means people will buy the next pin just to get a NIB.
If that is the case, this does rather highlight that we are all nuts.
 
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Calimori said:
Are you saying that if Venom was announced for summer and BTTF was for December, then they wouldn't sell less Venom? But at the moment, not knowing BTTF is ever coming means people will buy the next pin just to get a NIB.
If that is the case, this does rather highlight that we are all nuts.
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Kinda, if Stern announced / confirmed Venom and also announced BTTF was six months later, I'd guarantee the Venom sales would plummet. That's why they don't do it, and keep drip feeding the drugs to the junkies !!
 
ian866 said:
I'm not so sure on that one Kris, if people know that it's definite a must have is down the road, the next 'meh' release could tank. People are less likely to jump on the fomo bandwagon with prices as they are now.
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That's a fair point mate.

I do find the level of secrecy the pinball industry operates at extremely odd though.

My friend is a pro golfer and the big golf companies are far more open about what they're developing and it's the same with the big camera manufacturers too.

My son is heavily into cycling and some of the companies are globally massive. Granted, they won't reveal the full technical details of what they're making but they're absolutely happy to give a general overview. It undoubtedly creates a buzz ahead of the release and I believe it's general marketing practice.

As for Pinball manufactures social media strategy . . . it's shocking. Amongst the worst I've ever seen. Granted, I've only really looked at Stern and JJP but their engagement is awful.
I've just had a look at JJP's Twitter and they have 7800 followers 😲and their last post was 10 days ago. Stern have 15000 followers which is very, very poor all things considered.

I'm sure they're happy enough with sales but if they dropped the whole MI5 secrecy routine and truly embraced social media marketing they'd sell more.
 
Gonzo said:
That's a fair point mate.

I do find the level of secrecy the pinball industry operates at extremely odd though.

My friend is a pro golfer and the big golf companies are far more open about what they're developing and it's the same with the big camera manufacturers too.

My son is heavily into cycling and some of the companies are globally massive. Granted, they won't reveal the full technical details of what they're making but they're absolutely happy to give a general overview. It undoubtedly creates a buzz ahead of the release and I believe it's general marketing practice.

As for Pinball manufactures social media strategy . . . it's shocking. Amongst the worst I've ever seen. Granted, I've only really looked at Stern and JJP but their engagement is awful.
I've just had a look at JJP's Twitter and they have 7800 followers 😲and their last post was 10 days ago. Stern have 15000 followers which is very, very poor all things considered.

I'm sure they're happy enough with sales but if they dropped the whole MI5 secrecy routine and truly embraced social media marketing they'd sell more.
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Spot on!
 
With Stern moving into a new factory they are going to have to do something to engage and generate sales, unless they are confident in their prediction of the expected volumes. They've committed to that strategy.

At the moment the production line is flat out and they can sell almost everything they make, so they have no incentive to change ( even if it's distributors that get stuck holding the stock ).

Hopefully expansion of the business could yield a new approach, I don't see it though. They need to ensure interest in the less attractive titles, doing it the way they do helps that.
 
I do often wonder how long, this current volume of new pin sales will continue. Let’s be honest, current buyers are predominantly middle aged, with disposable income, people who spent their youth playing pinball.
The younger generations are just not into pinball, apart from a few exceptions, who are playing zen etc on game’s consoles.
When we are all in our twilight years, and can no longer play, and have lost interest, will the current level of sales still exist.
Makes you wonder what’s in store, for the future of pinball
 
Doggard said:
I do often wonder how long, this current volume of new pin sales will continue. Let’s be honest, current buyers are predominantly middle aged, with disposable income, people who spent their youth playing pinball.
The younger generations are just not into pinball, apart from a few exceptions, who are playing zen etc on game’s consoles.
When we are all in our twilight years, and can no longer play, and have lost interest, will the current level of sales still exist.
Makes you wonder what’s in store, for the future of pinball
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It’s in its golden years for sure and all the manufacturers know this, that’s why it’s such a cash grab right now. It will be dead when we are all in old ppls homes!
 
Doggard said:
I do often wonder how long, this current volume of new pin sales will continue. Let’s be honest, current buyers are predominantly middle aged, with disposable income, people who spent their youth playing pinball.
The younger generations are just not into pinball, apart from a few exceptions, who are playing zen etc on game’s consoles.
When we are all in our twilight years, and can no longer play, and have lost interest, will the current level of sales still exist.
Makes you wonder what’s in store, for the future of pinball
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Ultimately, in most cases, new pin sales would be bolstered by those of second hand pins to help finance them. If the slump in that market continues, the overall reduction in NIB volumes is inevitable.

I suspect the tide will turn very soon, as Russ says, golden years at the moment. I believe you'll see manufacturers releasing the 'mega titles' imminently as they dash for the remaining cash.
 
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its really easy. The IPR is not Stern’s and they have to agree everything with the IPR owner and the first thing in an agreement like that is an agreement on both sides not to disclose the deal until all the IPR use is approved and within a set launch window.
 
ian866 said:
. I believe you'll see manufacturers releasing the 'mega titles' imminently as they dash for the remaining cash.
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you mean like what happened at TPF? 😂

there is only one more game launch this year and that’s venom.
 
Good point Neil, I'm thinking the next 12-18 months ( probably next TPF ?? ), one last grab to scrape the barrel out !

Still believe Venom will have a hard time as people wait to see what Elwin delivers.
 
Doggard said:
I do often wonder how long, this current volume of new pin sales will continue. Let’s be honest, current buyers are predominantly middle aged, with disposable income, people who spent their youth playing pinball.
The younger generations are just not into pinball, apart from a few exceptions, who are playing zen etc on game’s consoles.
When we are all in our twilight years, and can no longer play, and have lost interest, will the current level of sales still exist.
Makes you wonder what’s in store, for the future of pinball
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The problem isn't lack of a younger audience, I got into pinball in my early 20's. I see plenty of people my age at shows and playing on location.
It's going to back lack of young people having any sort of disposable income with all the other struggles. Hopefully in another 10/20/30 years or whatever it will level out, but right now if young people can't even afford a house or other necessities they're not going to be spending their money on pinball machines.
Either that or prices will have to crash to a level they can afford to be interested enough to want to buy games.
 
ian866 said:
Good point Neil, I'm thinking the next 12-18 months ( probably next TPF ?? ), one last grab to scrape the barrel out !

Still believe Venom will have a hard time as people wait to see what Elwin delivers.
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Venom hard time ? Just like foo fighters ?!!! Everyone wrote that off but what a game that is … stern only need to deliver bttf and everyone will lose their minds and throw their spend limit right out of the window !
 
Gonzo said:
That's a fair point mate.

I do find the level of secrecy the pinball industry operates at extremely odd though.

My friend is a pro golfer and the big golf companies are far more open about what they're developing and it's the same with the big camera manufacturers too.

My son is heavily into cycling and some of the companies are globally massive. Granted, they won't reveal the full technical details of what they're making but they're absolutely happy to give a general overview. It undoubtedly creates a buzz ahead of the release and I believe it's general marketing practice.

As for Pinball manufactures social media strategy . . . it's shocking. Amongst the worst I've ever seen. Granted, I've only really looked at Stern and JJP but their engagement is awful.
I've just had a look at JJP's Twitter and they have 7800 followers 😲and their last post was 10 days ago. Stern have 15000 followers which is very, very poor all things considered.

I'm sure they're happy enough with sales but if they dropped the whole MI5 secrecy routine and truly embraced social media marketing they'd sell more.
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Numbers appear low cause JJP and Stern block 75% of folk for putting complaints on their FB
 
Silverpaolo said:
Venom hard time ? Just like foo fighters ?!!! Everyone wrote that off but what a game that is … stern only need to deliver bttf and everyone will lose their minds and throw their spend limit right out of the window !
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At £25K for a pro? 😂🤣
 
Silverpaolo said:
when’s your GTF arrive 🤪 now that’s one terrible game
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Have you played it ?
Everyone is hating on it due to the air balls off the tank jumping over the flippers, yeah it was annoying but also an easy fix (it has been fixed now apparently anyhow)

granted I couldn’t hear the music when I played it but I thought it was pretty good and retro fun ( the fold up into a tank thing, although clever, I dont get)
 
Neil McRae said:
its really easy. The IPR is not Stern’s and they have to agree everything with the IPR owner and the first thing in an agreement like that is an agreement on both sides not to disclose the deal until all the IPR use is approved and within a set launch window.
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Undoubtedly this is the case but in essence makes zero sense in reality.
Taking Bond, as an example, its not as if Joe Public is unaware of the source material or any great secrets are going to be revealed, this material has been out there for years. What do those who have control of the IPR think a company like Stern are going to with the assets, a photoshopped Bond dressed as Elvis riding a unicorn? Corporate ass hats. Ir would be more in their interest to release some info and get momentum built up before the release
 
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