The OFFICIAL LICENSED 'moans about pricing' thread

[JustLikeMe]

Yep realistically on current stern pricing as soon as you get it out of box or definitely with low plays within 6-12 months, if you want to sell you’re losing £1k-£1,250k on pro , £1.5k-2k on prem, and £2. 5k- 3.5k on an LE.

Agreed, but now that LEs are somehow £15.5k I think you might actually lose more than that unless the game turns out to be great / in massive demand. Especially now that Stern seem to have absolutely no issue running other varieties of LE down the line like JP 30th and the newest Elvira LE.

 

[Sgt GrizZ]

Great times for buyers who have spare cash to purchase used and near new recent releases though

Problem (first world of course ) arises when most buyers are pin owners already and they need to sell to make space .

Slower, quieter market for sure but certain titles though seem to be near bulletproof , TAF for example , a nothing special DE Star Wars still went 3400 ish on eBay.

 

[MadNat]

Problem (first world of course ) arises when most buyers are pin owners already and they need to sell to make space .

Slower, quieter market for sure but certain titles though seem to be near bulletproof , TAF for example , a nothing special DE Star Wars still went 3400 ish on eBay.

I agree - all the new games need to go somewhere… and space (along with cash) has a limit.

Maybe trading is the way the market will go?

As for price - if you need the cash you’ll sell for the best price you can get. If you don’t - you don’t. It’s not complicated imo.

 

[Jib]

Better to be sure your buying a dream theme thats a keeper or one you'll own for years if buying NIB

Trouble is you don't always know if it's something you want for years until you have it at home for a while. After playing on location and watching streams I thought DP would be here ages, I knew after 50 games I wasn't enjoying it at home and forced myself to play about 300 more games hoping I'd change my mind, it was only here a couple of months. On the flip side I played TMNT on location and didn't love it. I bought one used so had less risk if I didn't enjoy it but it's still here over 2 years and 1600+ games later and it would probably be 2nd last to leave.

Also depends how much you play. If a game is fun for 500 games but then becomes stale, it might take someone 2 years to play 500 games and someone else 2 months.

I'll probably look to trade my next game as you can get a fairer swap than if you sell and then put up a wanted ad, but trades aren't easy either. NIB I'll probably consider more carefully than before, I impulse bought my last NIB after the gameplay streams and I don't think that's paid off for me as I doubt it'll be here too much longer after it gets to 1.0 code.

 

[AlanJ]

Venom could be a very sought after game in years to come.

 

[Marvello]

Venom could be a very sought after game in years to come.

Listening to Don's Pinball Podcast he seems to have grinded his way through it in less than a week as it saves your XP, making each subsequent game a little easier. The XP factor appeals to me as I never get to the end of games, but the flip side is completing the game in a short space of time and just being left with speed runs.

 

[Sam C]

Time of year surely has some sort of factor as well? People are starting to think about Christmas and saving money - so unlikely to want to part with thousands for a pin right now.

 

[johnwhitfield]

There’s more machines up for sale currently than I’ve seen since 2015 or so. The market has certainly turned.

Problem is they are still ridiculously expensive when you think about it for any length of time.

Taking a random example. The JP looks good, it’s a game I’d like to own but probably a grand more than I’d want to pay for any pro. Six months ago it would have gone in a flash.

Similar story with IJ etc. The days of picking them up for £750 are long gone but that doesn’t automatically make it a £7500 game.

There’s only so many people who can spunk 7k plus on a toy.

I fully get people not wanting to take a bath on selling games but that doesn’t necessarily correspond to the next level of people below wanting to tie up serious dough in a game.

If anything the NIB cost might actually be pushing other prices down as it soaks up money from the true big spenders. The amount of money people have got tied up in games is insane.

 

[Ashbo]

There’s more machines up for sale currently than I’ve seen since 2015 or so. The market has certainly turned.

Problem is they are still ridiculously expensive when you think about it for any length of time.

Taking a random example. The JP looks good, it’s a game I’d like to own but probably a grand more than I’d want to pay for any pro. Six months ago it would have gone in a flash.

Similar story with IJ etc. The days of picking them up for £750 are long gone but that doesn’t automatically make it a £7500 game.

There’s only so many people who can spunk 7k plus on a toy.

I fully get people not wanting to take a bath on selling games but that doesn’t necessarily correspond to the next level of people below wanting to tie up serious dough in a game.

If anything the NIB cost might actually be pushing other prices down as it soaks up money from the true big spenders. The amount of money people have got tied up in games is insane.

Agreed, losing money isn't great, and who isn't looking at sales ads wondering if they buy now are they the next to take a bath in six months? Confidence is low amongst buyers, as you say, big spenders are tied up in the shiny new pins, most look excellent and I don't blame them.

Having no space a is convenient excuse for me and I'm sticking to that story personally I think the second hand market shows good, if not great value, some great pins at good prices. I've watched pins I'd love come and go at prices I would have been all over last year.

When you break these things out into the engineering, art and parts they are valuable indeed. Just a strange period we will all look back on saying wish I'd bought that back then in 2023...

 

[johnwhitfield]

I've watched pins I'd love come and go at prices I would have been all over last year.

This is 100% true for me. There’s been a load of games that have been at a “good” price but still I don’t want to buy. No space and no desire to flog anything to generate the space needed.
I picked up the Batman for 7.5k which I still think was a realistic price. Seems not many others did though. I suspect I’ll lose a grand if I tried to sell it on.

How low would a Rush pro need to be to sell? I’d probably grab one at 5.5k which is way lower than anyone would want to sell one at.

I think I sold my Aerosmith pro for 4.2 and my Munsters LE for 6. Those are the prices I’m still benchmarking by. In general people are poorer than they were 5 years ago.

 

[Sam C]

Problem is they are still ridiculously expensive when you think about it for any length of time.

Taking a random example. The JP looks good, it’s a game I’d like to own but probably a grand more than I’d want to pay for any pro. Six months ago it would have gone in a flash.

I'm not an unreasonable person but I'm also not going to be taking a huge loss either. I'm pretty aware I likely did overpay for the JP - and that was knocking the seller down £200 from what they paid.

I've fitted an insider kit to be included with sale, plus taken £300 off what I paid already. To me that's a £550 loss and I'm not prepared to lose anymore, at this point I'll attempt to make a sale off the forum because due to the price as everyone rightly points out, it's had 0 interest here. I've not even had the 'I'll give you 7k for it' chancers who normally come along with most sales.

Worst case, it'll sit with me a bit longer, as much as I want to sell it, it's not going to be the end of the world if I don't shift it absolutely immediately.

I always get mods are here or there for people also - but if you want a game for a grand cheaper to fit your own mods then that's perfectly fine, look for a used one that's bone stock or buy an NIB pro (which are now considerably more expensive).

 

[johnwhitfield]

I think the zero chancer offers is pretty significant. Things simply aren’t selling.
As sellers we’ve had it pretty good for a long while and for two years the market was white hot. It feels like the bubble has burst.

How many of us would have the balls to stick a newish game on eBay with no reserve? I know I haven’t. .

Oh well if it all goes tits up at least I’ve had some fun and the games have probably lost far less than my house over the last year

 

[Marvello]

Time of year surely has some sort of factor as well? People are starting to think about Christmas and saving money - so unlikely to want to part with thousands for a pin right now.

Is there ever a good time of year for selling/buying a Pin?

Spring - People are skint after Xmas/saving up for holidays
Summer - Nicer weather, longer daylight hours, holidays, people don't want to be stuck indoors
Autumn - People are skint after summer holidays/activities, saving up for Xmas
Winter - ???

The right time of year is when you find the right buyer/seller at the right price.

 

[ian866]

Time of year surely has some sort of factor as well? People are starting to think about Christmas and saving money - so unlikely to want to part with thousands for a pin right now.

Not so sure on that one, now is probably the best time to sell, historically for indoor hobbies October is key to moving stuff as people move back inside for the winter.

 

[M4carp]

Is there ever a good time of year for selling/buying a Pin?

Spring - People are skint after Xmas/saving up for holidays
Summer - Nicer weather, longer daylight hours, holidays, people don't want to be stuck indoors
Autumn - People are skint after summer holidays/activities, saving up for Xmas
Winter - ???

The right time of year is when you find the right buyer/seller at the right price.

Or if you have a TAF crisp or not then anytime of the year for some reason

 

[Jib]

Is there ever a good time of year for selling/buying a Pin?

Spring - People are skint after Xmas/saving up for holidays
Summer - Nicer weather, longer daylight hours, holidays, people don't want to be stuck indoors
Autumn - People are skint after summer holidays/activities, saving up for Xmas
Winter - ???

The right time of year is when you find the right buyer/seller at the right price.

I felt like there was a few more sales immediately after pinfest but I may have imagined it

 

[Sgt GrizZ]

I'm not an unreasonable person but I'm also not going to be taking a huge loss either. I'm pretty aware I likely did overpay for the JP - and that was knocking the seller down £200 from what they paid.

I've fitted an insider kit to be included with sale, plus taken £300 off what I paid already. To me that's a £550 loss and I'm not prepared to lose anymore, at this point I'll attempt to make a sale off the forum because due to the price as everyone rightly points out, it's had 0 interest here. I've not even had the 'I'll give you 7k for it' chancers who normally come along with most sales.

Worst case, it'll sit with me a bit longer, as much as I want to sell it, it's not going to be the end of the world if I don't shift it absolutely immediately.

I always get mods are here or there for people also - but if you want a game for a grand cheaper to fit your own mods then that's perfectly fine, look for a used one that's bone stock or buy an NIB pro

There’s more machines up for sale currently than I’ve seen since 2015 or so. The market has certainly turned.

Problem is they are still ridiculously expensive when you think about it for any length of time.

Taking a random example. The JP looks good, it’s a game I’d like to own but probably a grand more than I’d want to pay for any pro. Six months ago it would have gone in a flash.

Similar story with IJ etc. The days of picking them up for £750 are long gone but that doesn’t automatically make it a £7500 game.

There’s only so many people who can spunk 7k plus on a toy.

I fully get people not wanting to take a bath on selling games but that doesn’t necessarily correspond to the next level of people below wanting to tie up serious dough in a game.

If anything the NIB cost might actually be pushing other prices down as it soaks up money from the true big spenders. The amount of money people have got tied up in games is insane.

I have to say with the huge rise in prices the last few years I no longer enjoy the buying or selling one bit . I don’t see these big toys being worth the money tbh. No coincidence it’s been the quietest period of pin turnaround in my 20 years in the hobby.
I honestly quite look forward to the day I’m out of it

 

[RetroHeed]

Trouble is you don't always know if it's something you want for years until you have it at home for a while. After playing on location and watching streams I thought DP would be here ages, I knew after 50 games I wasn't enjoying it at home and forced myself to play about 300 more games hoping I'd change my mind, it was only here a couple of months. On the flip side I played TMNT on location and didn't love it. I bought one used so had less risk if I didn't enjoy it but it's still here over 2 years and 1600+ games later and it would probably be 2nd last to leave.

Great points made here. Many of us for the newer titles have to rely on streams a lot of the time in the hope that it actually plays good ,a huge gamble purchase to put out a big bucks. As you say once in the home possibly you won't like a game after a brief time with it, then and now it becomes difficult to even sell with certain titles.

Some of these new titles than have been recently released and announced look great. The trouble also for some people now is, how are many going to get a chance to even play these with these huge NIB prices. Can't see many people ever getting the chance to play many titles going forward, unless you happen to be friendly with collectors.

 

[huggers]

Might be going a bit early here but is the proverbial ar$e starting to fall out of the market?

 

[ianw]

The majority just over priced

 

[Ashbo]

The majority just over priced

As supply is exceeding demand, yes. Doesn't mean they aren't worth the asking price, more that the number of buyers interested in second hand has reduced - means that to sell it needs to be super value, unmissable value, giving it away value. Such a hard time for sellers, not a good time to sell at all

 

[Marvello]

Sellers have had a good run the last couple of years. The only anomaly is that NIB continue to rise.

Great time to buy, unless you think prices are going to continue falling.

 

[Mozie]

Look at the prices!! lots of them are never going to shift with the dreamer prices some people are listing games for. Of course there are some reaosnably priced pins among the chaff there too which ain't moving either but like said elsewhere most people that can still afford to buy pins given the increases in the cost of living etc are likely looking at all the new realeases announced and those yet to come and deciding where there money will go.

Seems the biggest hosing in on newer pins where you can expect to lose a nice chunk by selling them on whereas the older ones people are sitting on could probably make the money paid back easily. I get it people with older pins to sell want to fund the latest new release so trying to make maximum profit on them but as you can see they ain't shifting apart form the odd one where someone is really looking for a particular title and has the money or someone that doesn't know the value of something. Lots of people just waiting to see what happens too I think, if an elwin jaws or a Dutch bttf are announced watch even more stuff listed as it gets closer to release prices will be dropped.

 

[Jib]

Probably just part of a cycle. People seeing used games not shifting as quickly means some people will be less likely to buy NIB unless they think they'll keep it for a significant amount of time. There's NIB games I'm interested in but know wouldn't be keepers, if I knew I could play them for a few months and move them on for £500 less I'd get them, but at £1k+ loss for a few months play or maybe even not being able to shift it at all, I'm not interested.

Less people buying NIB will mean less supply later, used demand becomes greater than used games and so prices then probably increase again. Maybe...

 

[Marvello]

Sellers hanging on in there for Covid 2.0 .

 

[huggers]

The majority just over priced

I didn't like to say but 1000% this. 5k SAM and Whitestar games. Come along now.

 

[ianw]

I've sold 5 this year, all fairly priced, and took a hit on a few, but then I've had the enjoyment of playing them.

 

[Mozie]

As supply is exceeding demand, yes. Doesn't mean they aren't worth the asking price, more that the number of buyers interested in second hand has reduced - means that to sell it needs to be super value, unmissable value, giving it away value. Such a hard time for sellers, not a good time to sell at all

Some sellers wouldnt have a problem if they weren't trying to make a massive profit on what they paid. Others with newer titles will have to take a hosing which many aren't willing to do. Big difference between making 2k and losing 2k

 

[Calimori]

You only need one person, who is willing to pay what you want. If that one person, believes they will be competing with other people, FOMO (Fear Of Missing Out) can kick in and cause people to pull the trigger very quickly. I think there are a number of market factors encouraging people to cool their desires for an impulse buy. Cost of living, is the market depreciating, and a load of NIB opportunity for those who are still in the market.

Also worth us noting that we have more a mixture of sellers. Homeowners, those who make some of their living from trading games and those who do arcade machines as a business. If your running a business, you can't take too many losses before you aren't running a business.

 

[Mozie]

A few wheeler dealers about for sure but that's the same in every hobby, thankfully the majority are still people who just love pinball and if you get the value out of the game yourself by playing it for a bit you'll still be able to pass it on if its fairly priced. There's been plenty of pins have sold on here too once sensibly priced stuff will still shift