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The OFFICIAL LICENSED 'moans about pricing' thread

s000m said:
When you have one organisation with no competition setting rates for games being sold in the UK you end up with this exact situation.

Honestly given the price disparity between the US and UK pricing I'll be looking to import too, even if I suffer a node board failure I'm still going to be quids in.
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This has been discussed many times over many year
You won’t find any USA distributors who would want to or dare ship to the Uk on current titles
Then you have the problem of finding someone else who wants to ship it to the Uk customs vat needs another cpu or hack to work by the time you have done it not worth the hassle and you really don’t save that much
 
CHRIS B PINBALLS said:
This has been discussed many times over many year
You won’t find any USA distributors who would want to or dare ship to the Uk on current titles
Then you have the problem of finding someone else who wants to ship it to the Uk customs vat needs another cpu or hack to work by the time you have done it not worth the hassle and you really don’t save that much
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Difference here though Chris is the price disparity is just getting ridiculous.

Where there's a will, there's a way. 😉
 
Think a lot of people have compared the pricing to the US recently. Not so sure how one would go about buying from a distributor but always a way, really need a good contact in the US. Be ideal if you know someone trust worthy or a family member in the US that could help buy, or even privately.

I see someone on Pinside from Helsinki bought a Cactus LE from a private US seller and had it shipped over. I also seen a US auction ended yesterday where a Rush pro ended for $5k.
 
Buying second hand from the US is very different to NIB.

No US distributors are allowed to sell NIB Stern to the UK. If they get found out, they'll have breached their contract with Stern and that will be the end of it. Electrocoin are on very good terms with Stern and they're not going to allow themselves to be circumvented.

Second hand is a different matter and always seemed a bit risky. I saw a Lebowski I fancied last month but I bottled it due to customs and not knowing the fella selling it.
 
Gonzo said:
Buying second hand from the US is very different to NIB.

No US distributors are allowed to sell NIB Stern to the UK. If they get found out, they'll have breached their contract with Stern and that will be the end of it. Electrocoin are on very good terms with Stern and they're not going to allow themselves to be circumvented.

Second hand is a different matter and always seemed a bit risky. I saw a Lebowski I fancied last month but I bottled it due to customs and not knowing the fella selling it.
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Electrocoin won’t be on good terms for long if sales are down because no one is buying surely 🤷‍♂️
 
Scott-UK said:
Electrocoin won’t be on good terms for long if sales are down because no one is buying surely 🤷‍♂️
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They'll need to see a year of a downward trend in sales before they do anything.

They release a big license and sales pick up, they'll just blame Venom poor sales on a poor license rather than a high price. That and Pinball sales in the UK account for pretty much bugger all. I think they'll have to see a downward trend in the US to see any movement on price over here. Let's just see how the next pin sells I suppose.
 
Can only hope that venom sells well in US but not here. Then they can only blame the middle man for taking an unnecessary cut.
 
Sgt GrizZ said:
Nobody was asking number of games played until recently ? 🤷‍♀️ genuinely puzzled why it’s suddenly a thing
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Because now there's a massive screen that displays it and big letters in the menu 😏

Personally for me it's not really relevant, you could have a machine with low plays that never been played and because of the lack of plays hides all sorts of problems, you can have one that's had 5000 plays and been rebuilt flippers, coils etc and play like new. There designed to be played alot, I would be more concerned about the condition of the playfield, now for me that's important. you can get a new in the box one with 50 plays and the playfield shot. I know which machine id prefer 😉

People asking is totally acceptable, one man's requirement is another's not.

It's relevance is subjective
 
Scott-UK said:
Electrocoin won’t be on good terms for long if sales are down because no one is buying surely 🤷‍♂️
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Maybe mate..... they'll sell a load of Jaws and BTTF. One will be Kapow and the other Elwin it seems.

In my opinion Venom is a bit like Rush in the sense that it's not mainstream. The difference is that people are more skint than when Rush was released so they'll sell less Venom.

But there are other options. Electrocoin don't import CGC and others so there's no finders fee.

My next two games are ordered and they're not Stern.
 
I'm about 80% in on a Venom, the more I see the more I like. It was a toss up between this and Pulp Fiction but I think Venom will be better in small (1 or 2 game) collection than PF.
 
Marvello said:
I'm about 80% in on a Venom, the more I see the more I like. It was a toss up between this and Pulp Fiction but I think Venom will be better in small (1 or 2 game) collection than PF.
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If not many Venoms sell in the UK, then I suspect it will hold its value better than Pulp.

I still think Venom looks decent enough. It's not for me because of the theme, tight shots and timing. But I wouldn't be surprised if it's a sleeper.
 
Its crazy that a new UK Stern LE cost for us is near the same price as a new US Stern LE and a Pro combined, for the guys in the US.

If I had spare Stern LE funds to buy one I wouldn't, you can get a used recent released Stern Pro and a NIB Pulp Fiction for near the same money.
 
RetroHeed said:
Some info and trends on prices in the US

https://www.kineticist.co/post/pinflation-on-ice
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They need to employ a statistician to do the numbers for them. What they have produced is completely biased and misleading as they havent taken the "mix" of the type of machines into account.

You can see that what they have stated is just plain and simple rubbish by looking at the 2023 numbers. For 2023, they report an increase of 5% overall, but if you look at each of the categories most have fallen:

LCD down 6%
Modern DMD down 9%
Golden Age down 2%
Alphanumeric up 2%
SS up 2%
EM up 9%

With 60% of machine sales in the 3 categories that have gone down, how can overall values possibly have increased???? As I said the analysis is complete rubbish.

Similarly for 2019, they reported a 42% average increase, but the categories (in same order a above) were 12%, 11%, 1%, 8%, 22% and -16%. The 42% can't possibly be correct.

What they have done wrong is not allowed for the change in the "mix" of machines sold - in te early years there were proportionately fewer expensive LCD machines sold and a greater propertion of cheaper DMD/SS/EM. later years it is the opposite way around. So much of the so-called "pinflation" is just as a result in people buying more expensive modern machines.

I recast the figures as best I could to remove as much of the changing "mix" effects and the correct "pinflation"

YearThe rubbish that was reportedCorrected for "mix"
2023​
5.5%​
-1.4%​
2022​
23.8%​
12.6%​
2021​
31.4%​
16.4%​
2020​
12.8%​
8.5%​
2019​
42.4%​
5.3%​

Which shows prices have fallen in 2023, which we all knew anyway and much more modest increases through the years. And even in my figures, I expect that there remains some "mix bias" and they are overstated, as I suspect that the proportion of LEs and Premiums that have sold has been increasing and this will introduce similar mix bias into the equation, just from a different source.

Journo's should stick to writing and leave the numbers and analysis to the mathematicians.

Rant over - I'm done now.

Paul
 
Asiapinball said:
They need to employ a statistician to do the numbers for them. What they have produced is completely biased and misleading as they havent taken the "mix" of the type of machines into account.

You can see that what they have stated is just plain and simple rubbish by looking at the 2023 numbers. For 2023, they report an increase of 5% overall, but if you look at each of the categories most have fallen:

LCD down 6%
Modern DMD down 9%
Golden Age down 2%
Alphanumeric up 2%
SS up 2%
EM up 9%

With 60% of machine sales in the 3 categories that have gone down, how can overall values possibly have increased???? As I said the analysis is complete rubbish.

Similarly for 2019, they reported a 42% average increase, but the categories (in same order a above) were 12%, 11%, 1%, 8%, 22% and -16%. The 42% can't possibly be correct.

What they have done wrong is not allowed for the change in the "mix" of machines sold - in te early years there were proportionately fewer expensive LCD machines sold and a greater propertion of cheaper DMD/SS/EM. later years it is the opposite way around. So much of the so-called "pinflation" is just as a result in people buying more expensive modern machines.

I recast the figures as best I could to remove as much of the changing "mix" effects and the correct "pinflation"

YearThe rubbish that was reportedCorrected for "mix"
2023​
5.5%​
-1.4%​
2022​
23.8%​
12.6%​
2021​
31.4%​
16.4%​
2020​
12.8%​
8.5%​
2019​
42.4%​
5.3%​

Which shows prices have fallen in 2023, which we all knew anyway and much more modest increases through the years. And even in my figures, I expect that there remains some "mix bias" and they are overstated, as I suspect that the proportion of LEs and Premiums that have sold has been increasing and this will introduce similar mix bias into the equation, just from a different source.

Journo's should stick to writing and leave the numbers and analysis to the mathematicians.

Rant over - I'm done now.

Paul
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😂 thanks for taking the time to sort it all out. Rubbish right enough that they have posted.
 
So many Pins recently released and available, with some not far away.

Yet with prices so high and not much buying NIB, it's crazy when you see the current list from all the manufacturers (taken from pinside),

Stern (Venom, Foo Fighters, James Bond, Rush, Godzilla, Mandalorian, Stranger Things, Jurassic Park, Deadpool, Elvira's House of Horrors, Iron Maiden, Guardians of the Galaxy, Star Wars)
Jersey Jack (Godfather, Toy Story, Guns N' Roses)
CGC (Pulp Fiction, Cactus Canyon remake, possibly more MMr)
Spooky (Scooby-Doo, TNA)
American (Galactic Tank Force, Legends of Valhalla)
Multimorphic (Final Resistance, Weird Al’s Museum of Natural Hilarity and 17 other game kits for the P3 platform)
Dutch (The Big Lebowski)
Haggis (Celts, Fathom, Centaur)
Pinball Bros. (Queen, Alien)
Homepin (This is Spinal Tap, Thunderbirds)
Quetzal/Bitronic (Super Hoop, Tokyo Drift, Captain Nemo)
Pinball Adventures (Elements, Foresaken Ninja, Punny Factory)
HEXA (Space Hunt)
Turner Pinball (Ninja Eclipse)
TiltBob Pinball (Road Trip)
Barrels of Fun (Labyrinth)
 
RetroHeed said:
So many Pins recently released and available, with some not far away.

Yet with prices so high and not much buying NIB, it's crazy when you see the current list from all the manufacturers (taken from pinside),

Stern (Venom, Foo Fighters, James Bond, Rush, Godzilla, Mandalorian, Stranger Things, Jurassic Park, Deadpool, Elvira's House of Horrors, Iron Maiden, Guardians of the Galaxy, Star Wars)
Jersey Jack (Godfather, Toy Story, Guns N' Roses)
CGC (Pulp Fiction, Cactus Canyon remake, possibly more MMr)
Spooky (Scooby-Doo, TNA)
American (Galactic Tank Force, Legends of Valhalla)
Multimorphic (Final Resistance, Weird Al’s Museum of Natural Hilarity and 17 other game kits for the P3 platform)
Dutch (The Big Lebowski)
Haggis (Celts, Fathom, Centaur)
Pinball Bros. (Queen, Alien)
Homepin (This is Spinal Tap, Thunderbirds)
Quetzal/Bitronic (Super Hoop, Tokyo Drift, Captain Nemo)
Pinball Adventures (Elements, Foresaken Ninja, Punny Factory)
HEXA (Space Hunt)
Turner Pinball (Ninja Eclipse)
TiltBob Pinball (Road Trip)
Barrels of Fun (Labyrinth)
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Yes lots of stock but nothing is selling yet stern keep re running old titles and distributors just sat on stuff won’t be long before they will run out of space or money the times have certainly changed since last year look at the for sale thread à right selection of pins for sale at various prices and nothing is selling I think people who have bought anything in the last 3 year have to face they are going to lose money or just not be able to sell
 
CHRIS B PINBALLS said:
Yes lots of stock but nothing is selling yet stern keep re running old titles and distributors just sat on stuff won’t be long before they will run out of space or money the times have certainly changed since last year look at the for sale thread à right selection of pins for sale at various prices and nothing is selling I think people who have bought anything in the last 3 year have to face they are going to lose money or just not be able to sell
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Market is very very slow at the moment, pin has to be at a bargain price to sell these days. Definitely buyers market right now.
 
CHRIS B PINBALLS said:
Yes lots of stock but nothing is selling yet stern keep re running old titles and distributors just sat on stuff won’t be long before they will run out of space or money the times have certainly changed since last year look at the for sale thread à right selection of pins for sale at various prices and nothing is selling I think people who have bought anything in the last 3 year have to face they are going to lose money or just not be able to sell
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Yep realistically on current stern pricing as soon as you get it out of box or definitely with low plays within 6-12 months, if you want to sell you’re losing £1k-£1,250k on pro , £1.5k-2k on prem, and £2. 5k- 3.5k on an LE.
 
Buying a NIB now at the current prices I would be expecting to lose 15-20 %, even then that might not be such an easy sale depending on the title.

Better to be sure your buying a dream theme thats a keeper or one you'll own for years if buying NIB.

Great times for buyers who have spare cash to purchase used and near new recent releases though.
 
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