I found out about the East Anglian League on the forum having only just got into pinball. I was late to the party and was only able to get to the 6th meet at Geoff's in Southend. I have nothing but good things to say about it. The group was really welcoming the machines were a blast to play and I never felt my lack of skill was an issue. There were people playing who were clearly very good but everyone just got on. I really hope it continues and I can make it to more next season as it was a great way to get properly introduced to Pinball. I would happily pay more than the recommend £10 as well. Big thanks to Claire for taking the time to organise everything.
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UK Pinball League 2024 - Feedback
- Thread starter Wizcat
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This is down to the league coordinators individually. In the EA region all of our meets started late morning with league play proper starting just after lunch. Or is this how it is in the North too? We have no issue getting through 10/12 games but in some cases we do tweak the games so they're not too easy
Thing is all of the EA league attendees are new to UK league play bar one. Either newbies or players who hadn't heard of the UK league, weren't interested because the LondonSE meets were too far away for just 6 games (plus the dates/details being last minute).
Only Conrad is a LondonSE defector and it turned out all our meets were easier to get to for him.
It sounds like Wales was born out of the South West league but East Anglia was born more from regular Pinhaus and pinball office comps bringing people out of the woodwork
I'm pleased at how we went from 0 league and apparently a pinball barren region to having 30 regular league players.
Nick
Registered
EA league hosts demonstrated general proficiency in rice cooker operation. Satisfactory experience.
We had > 20 players at our meet this year. I don’t know about the other meets as I’ve been out of the competitive scene most of this year due to a broken shoulder and then a recurrence of my other health issues.
Having 8+ machines is better, but - yeah - we don’t currently qualify to host a meet. Our 8th machine is dismantled and, even if it were in operation, I like to have a spare as there’s a possibility a machine (Fish Tales, cough…) might breakdown in play.
I have been to every meet for the last 17? years. I originated the rules and was league coordinator for 6. The very first league meet was at my house.
I stopped going this year, mainly because the dynamic of the league had changed from a friendly inviting family event into something err, less so.
Playing 12+ games really doesn't take more time, it just means less standing around waiting to get on a game but it is increasingly hard to find venues able to cope with 30+ people. A good problem to have though.
I don't see what a regional play off adds other than cow towing to WPPR, which the league pre dates.
I stopped going this year, mainly because the dynamic of the league had changed from a friendly inviting family event into something err, less so.
Playing 12+ games really doesn't take more time, it just means less standing around waiting to get on a game but it is increasingly hard to find venues able to cope with 30+ people. A good problem to have though.
I don't see what a regional play off adds other than cow towing to WPPR, which the league pre dates.
Just for clarity, Vin, my issues with London/SE were notthing to do with the current year and PBR being closed, rather the running of the 2022 and 2023 seasons. By the end of 2023 I'd already decided not to go to the 2024 league meets, and it was only due to the East Anglia league being launched that I attended any league meets for this year at all.
As you say, hopefully the 2025 season will see improvements and a rejuvenation in the London/SE due to the change of organiser, although personally, I'll still be attending the EA league next year, partly due to many locations being quicker to travel to despite being further away, but mainly due to the truly excellent experience at all EA events this year.
Asiapinball
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In progress. There will be one heck of a weekend event when it is all done and I can accommodate all 30 machines in one room suitable for tournaments. Now just to get the planning permission.Maybe you should buy a schoolor something
I had attended South West League meets for quite a few years but ‘defected’ to the new South Wales league this first year, as almost all meets were a lot closer to home than in the SW league.
Really liked the mix of machines, old and new, so didn’t feel out of contention by not having an encyclopaedic knowledge of the deep rule sets of all modern Sterns.
I feel 8-10 machines is right number if playing high score and not match-play.
We had a play-off st the end that I really enjoyed. Ladder system so coming 6th in the league meant I’d have to win alot of games to make the final two for the league finals but that’s fair enough - it at least gave me a chance to still get there.
Dates were announced far in advance. Two had to be changed, with good notice, but sadly mention couldn’t make either as away!
Ange thanks to all the hosts and especially Kevlar for organising it - always a thankless task!
Really liked the mix of machines, old and new, so didn’t feel out of contention by not having an encyclopaedic knowledge of the deep rule sets of all modern Sterns.
I feel 8-10 machines is right number if playing high score and not match-play.
We had a play-off st the end that I really enjoyed. Ladder system so coming 6th in the league meant I’d have to win alot of games to make the final two for the league finals but that’s fair enough - it at least gave me a chance to still get there.
Dates were announced far in advance. Two had to be changed, with good notice, but sadly mention couldn’t make either as away!
Ange thanks to all the hosts and especially Kevlar for organising it - always a thankless task!
It's clear from the comments already posted how much each region is doing their own thing with little acknowledgement or adherence to the rules, either formal or informal.
Some of the differences include:
Amount paid by each competitor and how much goes to the host.
How many games are played.
Refreshments provided
Publication dates of meets.
Format of comp on the day.
Format of finals - if indeed there are any for the region.
I'm of the same opinion as @Tucks , as well as many others in the Midlands region. That having a competition to determine who goes to the final at Daventry kind of makes a mockery of the whole league format. The fact only 2 from each region making it is also a step backwards I feel, it was always a great opportunity to play wth, and make friends with, people you wouldn't usually play with, such as from Scotland or Ireland.
(I'd like to point out that I said all of this BEFORE the Midlands finals.) I even said on the day that if it was me and Nick in the final game, I wouldn't contest the game because as far as I was concerned he had won the league over the course of the season and shouldnt be decided on a single game.
Having finished 2nd (my joint lowest position in over 10 years) it'll be the first time I haven't played in the finals, despite finishing 2nd in the league with more points than anybody else 1 poor game and that's it. Not the way a 'league' usually works.
Some of the differences include:
Amount paid by each competitor and how much goes to the host.
How many games are played.
Refreshments provided
Publication dates of meets.
Format of comp on the day.
Format of finals - if indeed there are any for the region.
I'm of the same opinion as @Tucks , as well as many others in the Midlands region. That having a competition to determine who goes to the final at Daventry kind of makes a mockery of the whole league format. The fact only 2 from each region making it is also a step backwards I feel, it was always a great opportunity to play wth, and make friends with, people you wouldn't usually play with, such as from Scotland or Ireland.
(I'd like to point out that I said all of this BEFORE the Midlands finals.) I even said on the day that if it was me and Nick in the final game, I wouldn't contest the game because as far as I was concerned he had won the league over the course of the season and shouldnt be decided on a single game.
Having finished 2nd (my joint lowest position in over 10 years) it'll be the first time I haven't played in the finals, despite finishing 2nd in the league with more points than anybody else 1 poor game and that's it. Not the way a 'league' usually works.
I agree. It was really good to compete in the Finals in 2023. Mere mortals are not coming top 2 in the Northern league
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Hey I tried my best!I agree. It was really good to compete in the Finals in 2023. Mere mortals are not coming top 2 in the Northern league
The Northern League is far too big.
As others have said, I only attended one meet this year as 45 people is just too many. Too crowded and too long of a day
I have hosted in previous years, but it is just not possible to fit the current number of players into my house.
For those that care about the competitive side of things, I imagine it is much harder for someone in the Northern league to get into the finals, given that we have twice as many players as some other regions.
As others have said, I only attended one meet this year as 45 people is just too many. Too crowded and too long of a day
I have hosted in previous years, but it is just not possible to fit the current number of players into my house.
For those that care about the competitive side of things, I imagine it is much harder for someone in the Northern league to get into the finals, given that we have twice as many players as some other regions.
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The SouthWest league was run extremely well by @Moonraker and we had a number of fantastic hosts who very generously let us into their homes to play on their machines so thanks to all of them. All of our meets were matchplay with finals, some were 3/4 players matchplays and a couple were 2 player matchplays - personally I found that although you played a lot more in 2-player matchplay it was a bit too non-stop and I preferred the more social 3/4 players. We generally ran 11am-5pm then finals which was fine even though every meet was 2+ hours away!
I think only the top 2 qualifying for the finals diminished the fun and competitive side a bit as there are so many good players in SW that finishing top 2 was never achievable and the carrot of finishing top 4 or 6 or 8 for the finals was gone... I think the finals would be better with more qualifying and shorter finals to accomodate the greater numbers... there are some fab players who won't be in it which is a shame. (Maybe it's time to start a Devon & Cornwall league
)
(PS. If the league meets were only to play 6 games I would not have attended!
)
I think only the top 2 qualifying for the finals diminished the fun and competitive side a bit as there are so many good players in SW that finishing top 2 was never achievable and the carrot of finishing top 4 or 6 or 8 for the finals was gone... I think the finals would be better with more qualifying and shorter finals to accomodate the greater numbers... there are some fab players who won't be in it which is a shame. (Maybe it's time to start a Devon & Cornwall league
)(PS. If the league meets were only to play 6 games I would not have attended!
)
Folk are much fussier nowadays with the food - no this, no that etc etc
How about abandoning the food altogether so people just arrive fed and you start at say 1pm to facilitate this. Practice 1pm to 3pm. Have a standard league of 8 scoring machines max per event if the host owns that many. If hosts have more - folk can play unofficially on them to kill time and you have extras in case of serious break downs.
The host provides a decent spread of hot and cold drinks plus biscuits, cakes, crisps - that level of catering only.
£5 quid is obviously too low given what machines, parts and repairs cost these days. The Midlanda league upped the fee this year and that was a good move. To be perfectly frank, if someone only pays a fiver and of that three quid ends up in a host's pocket to cover machine repairs, food, drink, electricity, cleaning up etc - do you really want them in your house ?
If it's made easier for the hosts you might get more folk offering and that could in turn help split Northern for example into 2 smaller leagues.
How about abandoning the food altogether so people just arrive fed and you start at say 1pm to facilitate this. Practice 1pm to 3pm. Have a standard league of 8 scoring machines max per event if the host owns that many. If hosts have more - folk can play unofficially on them to kill time and you have extras in case of serious break downs.
The host provides a decent spread of hot and cold drinks plus biscuits, cakes, crisps - that level of catering only.
£5 quid is obviously too low given what machines, parts and repairs cost these days. The Midlanda league upped the fee this year and that was a good move. To be perfectly frank, if someone only pays a fiver and of that three quid ends up in a host's pocket to cover machine repairs, food, drink, electricity, cleaning up etc - do you really want them in your house ?
If it's made easier for the hosts you might get more folk offering and that could in turn help split Northern for example into 2 smaller leagues.
I agree that the 2 player events felt more intense, though I always appreciate playing more games even though as a rule 2 player is worse for me from a competitive perspective!The SouthWest league was run extremely well by @Moonraker and we had a number of fantastic hosts who very generously let us into their homes to play on their machines so thanks to all of them. All of our meets were matchplay with finals, some were 3/4 players matchplays and a couple were 2 player matchplays - personally I found that although you played a lot more in 2-player matchplay it was a bit too non-stop and I preferred the more social 3/4 players. We generally ran 11am-5pm then finals which was fine even though every meet was 2+ hours away!
I think only the top 2 qualifying for the finals diminished the fun and competitive side a bit as there are so many good players in SW that finishing top 2 was never achievable and the carrot of finishing top 4 or 6 or 8 for the finals was gone... I think the finals would be better with more qualifying and shorter finals to accomodate the greater numbers... there are some fab players who won't be in it which is a shame. (Maybe it's time to start a Devon & Cornwall league
(PS. If the league meets were only to play 6 games I would not have attended!
Even living in east Bristol the drives were fairly lengthy; SWL is 90 mins, and Greg’s and Martyn’s are both 2 hours. Luke’s was the best at a friendly 40 mins. This year’s venues definitely skewed more “south” than “west”, but it is a large region so almost inevitable. Wish I was in a position to host but one EM does not a venue make.
I think my perspective is a bit different from yours in terms of the finals, even though I ended up 9th and just outside a notional eight-person final I am pretty comfortable with sending the two people who performed consistently the best over six meets. More of a Premier League football approach than the (IMO silly) Premiership rugby approach.
It would have been nice to have had more people at some of the meets, the numbers did fall away as the season went on. We had:
Meet 1 - 25
Meet 2 - 20
Meet 3 - 15
Meet 4 - 14
Meet 5 - 12
Meet 6 - 13
Of the 31 players who participated, 12 managed to make a full card of 4+ meets and 10 only played in 1 meet. Not sure if there is anything to really learn from this or if these are typical trends as the weather warms up or in leagues in general, just an observation.
I think we need to decide what the league is first and foremost, is it what it's always been - namely a friendly way to enter the hobby with a competition, but more about the social side OR is it just a serious competition and it has to have WPPR?
It's nice to compete and win but not the most important, there are plenty of serious competitions for that. There didn't used to be much in the way of competition when the league started, perhaps 3 or 4 a year in the UK plus the league but now there are plenty.
If the majority think it should be a serious competition then I think everything needs to be standardised across all regions when it comes to formats and machines. For example, I believe there were different types of regional finals or some that didn't have them. I would also suggest a minimum of 5 and a maximum of 10 machines, also something to cover breakdowns when there are large numbers of people and only one or two groups are left to play that machine (I know of instances where positions have been massively altered when a machine has been taken out with only one group left to play)
As for the season just gone, I completely disagree with the "Regional Finals" format in order to qualify for WPPR. I agree with @Wayne J that it's odd that someone who could finish 10th could potentially "win" the league. To that point, it's not actually a league at all, just a competition for seeding for the finals. In our region, we had reserves who could take the place of anyone who didn't turn up, which also seems to go against the point of a league.
Personally I would prefer to keep the league as a social gathering with a competition on the side, but I completely understand that's not what others may want
It's nice to compete and win but not the most important, there are plenty of serious competitions for that. There didn't used to be much in the way of competition when the league started, perhaps 3 or 4 a year in the UK plus the league but now there are plenty.
If the majority think it should be a serious competition then I think everything needs to be standardised across all regions when it comes to formats and machines. For example, I believe there were different types of regional finals or some that didn't have them. I would also suggest a minimum of 5 and a maximum of 10 machines, also something to cover breakdowns when there are large numbers of people and only one or two groups are left to play that machine (I know of instances where positions have been massively altered when a machine has been taken out with only one group left to play)
As for the season just gone, I completely disagree with the "Regional Finals" format in order to qualify for WPPR. I agree with @Wayne J that it's odd that someone who could finish 10th could potentially "win" the league. To that point, it's not actually a league at all, just a competition for seeding for the finals. In our region, we had reserves who could take the place of anyone who didn't turn up, which also seems to go against the point of a league.
Personally I would prefer to keep the league as a social gathering with a competition on the side, but I completely understand that's not what others may want
Please don't make it standardised and focused on the competition!
I used to enjoy league meets, but they were mainly for catching up with old friends and play some pin for fun. A bit of variety makes it better, for me anyway. When someone takes it too seriously and shouts loudly or bangs a machine with their fist or otherwise acts like a dickhead, it just spoils it for everyone else imo. And what's all this nonsense i hear about banning 'best female' trophy because it offended some bellend? FFS they don't have to join in, but let others enjoy it without taking offence at new rules on genderism or whatever.
I used to enjoy league meets, but they were mainly for catching up with old friends and play some pin for fun. A bit of variety makes it better, for me anyway. When someone takes it too seriously and shouts loudly or bangs a machine with their fist or otherwise acts like a dickhead, it just spoils it for everyone else imo. And what's all this nonsense i hear about banning 'best female' trophy because it offended some bellend? FFS they don't have to join in, but let others enjoy it without taking offence at new rules on genderism or whatever.
I host league meets and people come from far and wide therefore they need to be fed and watered in my opinion.
Lots of machines can result in a long day so maybe a max. I once played at special when lit and all machines were available to practice on but you didn’t know which machines were in the competition until a draw was made.
Not sure what the solution is for the north. Even if it was split N west N east I think the n west would claim the majority of the group. I would also miss meeting people and playing on there machines.
Lots of machines can result in a long day so maybe a max. I once played at special when lit and all machines were available to practice on but you didn’t know which machines were in the competition until a draw was made.
Not sure what the solution is for the north. Even if it was split N west N east I think the n west would claim the majority of the group. I would also miss meeting people and playing on there machines.
You can still guest attend other region's meets Moose. You just don't count towards their regions points AFAIK.
I hosted at previous house many times where I could cater for the numbers in the North, but not a chance in the new place.
This is how league events differ, I suspect
The first year I hosted in London and SE, I spent the day before (Saturday) buying coca-cola and dips, and making homemade falafels, blondies, samosas, cheesecake, biscuits. Everyone was too busy practicing before the tournament kicked off to really eat anything, and - by the end of the day - I’d only got rid of a plate of samosas and a few blondies. The next year, I’d learned my lesson and left out a few shop-bought sausage rolls, and - occasionally - someone would grab one as they went past.
The only time I’ve catered ‘properly’ is when I ran a small matchplay event and then we served a full lunch of pasta. It was a small turnout and everyone sat down to eat, which added to the social/casual vibe!
I think London has a lot of food options that are much better than what I can provide. I imagine, if you’re driving across-country to get to an event, some decent food at the other end would be more important.
OP
OP
Nothing has changed with regards to the format of the six league meets (probably since it's inception so far as I'm aware). So it does cause me to scratch my head when people say that it's not as friendly or welcoming as it once was.
It's still a format which allows people to turn up early and have a gossip and a brew, or late and try to jam through the games. You can play your games single player or in a group. Nothing. Has. Changed. I'd 100% agree that the league meets should stay in this format because it is exceptionally laid back and friendly. We've had autistic young adults turn up with their parents and for them being able to play the games with people they know is crucial, much as it would be for any young kids. It's a great format.
There has always been a competition at the end of the season. Last season 32 players (from the six regions) were invited, but those 32 players played single player games on the machine bank, before the top 16 advanced to finals. So at best 16 players from across the regions had the opportunity to directly play against each other. Those sixteen players - 6 Northern, 3 Midlands, 3 South West, 2 London and 1 each from Scotland and Ireland.
All that changes this year is that the qualifying portion, to decide who advances to the direct play finals, is held regionally. This helps reduce the time the National Finals will take at Pinfest (because there were multiple complaints about finals taking 'all day' when there were so many other things going on at Pinfest). It also helps spread the balance of players that attend, two per region. There are still 16 players in the finals from the expanded eight regions that now exist. Even if we did go back to 'the old format' the numbers that would be eligible for an all day finals at Pinfest would have to be reduced per region.
The regional final would also allow the local leagues to promote attendance to a regional event where finals could be held. Though I'll admit that in practice that didn't happen this year at all.
The other benefit, though it's not the ultimate reason for switching to this format, is that the individual regions are now eligible for WPPR points. I totally understand that 'people don't care'. But some people do. It's a tiny compromise that only affects the best players in each region, who previously would have been invited to a finals / 'serious comp' anyway. Plus, like I say, it's not the driving factor but just one of a number of advantages in my mind to bringing the qualifying portion of the finals to the local regions.
I've said my piece now
It's still a format which allows people to turn up early and have a gossip and a brew, or late and try to jam through the games. You can play your games single player or in a group. Nothing. Has. Changed. I'd 100% agree that the league meets should stay in this format because it is exceptionally laid back and friendly. We've had autistic young adults turn up with their parents and for them being able to play the games with people they know is crucial, much as it would be for any young kids. It's a great format.
There has always been a competition at the end of the season. Last season 32 players (from the six regions) were invited, but those 32 players played single player games on the machine bank, before the top 16 advanced to finals. So at best 16 players from across the regions had the opportunity to directly play against each other. Those sixteen players - 6 Northern, 3 Midlands, 3 South West, 2 London and 1 each from Scotland and Ireland.
All that changes this year is that the qualifying portion, to decide who advances to the direct play finals, is held regionally. This helps reduce the time the National Finals will take at Pinfest (because there were multiple complaints about finals taking 'all day' when there were so many other things going on at Pinfest). It also helps spread the balance of players that attend, two per region. There are still 16 players in the finals from the expanded eight regions that now exist. Even if we did go back to 'the old format' the numbers that would be eligible for an all day finals at Pinfest would have to be reduced per region.
The regional final would also allow the local leagues to promote attendance to a regional event where finals could be held. Though I'll admit that in practice that didn't happen this year at all.
The other benefit, though it's not the ultimate reason for switching to this format, is that the individual regions are now eligible for WPPR points. I totally understand that 'people don't care'. But some people do. It's a tiny compromise that only affects the best players in each region, who previously would have been invited to a finals / 'serious comp' anyway. Plus, like I say, it's not the driving factor but just one of a number of advantages in my mind to bringing the qualifying portion of the finals to the local regions.
I've said my piece now
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This is how league events differ, I suspect
The first year I hosted in London and SE, I spent the day before (Saturday) buying coca-cola and dips, and making homemade falafels, blondies, samosas, cheesecake, biscuits. Everyone was too busy practicing before the tournament kicked off to really eat anything, and - by the end of the day - I’d only got rid of a plate of samosas and a few blondies. The next year, I’d learned my lesson and left out a few shop-bought sausage rolls, and - occasionally - someone would grab one as they went past.
The only time I’ve catered ‘properly’ is when I ran a small matchplay event and then we served a full lunch of pasta. It was a small turnout and everyone sat down to eat, which added to the social/casual vibe!
I think London has a lot of food options that are much better than what I can provide. I imagine, if you’re driving across-country to get to an event, some decent food at the other end would be more important.
You'll need to go into the pinball room(s) and bang some pans and tell the herd "grubs up".
The other benefit, though it's not the ultimate reason for switching to this format, is that the individual regions are now eligible for WPPR points. I totally understand that 'people don't care'. But some people do. It's a tiny compromise that only affects the best players in each region, who previously would have been invited to a finals / 'serious comp' anyway. Plus, like I say, it's not the driving factor but just one of a number of advantages in my mind to bringing the qualifying portion of the finals to the local regions.
I've said my piece now
Name another sport in the world with a league format where someone who finished 1st in the season doesn't win the league and someone who finished 10th can
If you want to keep it with the end of season finals and not alienate some of the players, you need to change the format slightly. I suggest (if possible) the league ends with the finishing positions from the league season and those people are the representatives for the finals. Then have an end of season finals for the WPPR points
You mean like we already had?