Doesn’t mean it’s 100% safe, remember Rosco…
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The OFFICIAL LICENSED 'moans about pricing' thread
- Thread starter VeeMonroe
- Start date
Just to expand on this . . .
Q: Why doesn't Godzilla breathe fire in the Stern games?
A: Because it's too expensive to do so and there's a BOM
Having listened to Elwin talk about Godzilla I'm certain he'd have loved to have added more than the collapsing building & bridge. Unfortunately time and budget get in the way but many mods really add to the overall atmosphere of a game.
To suggest that a pro machine should be left as it is because that's how the designer intended it is not really accurate. I'm quite sure that the concept for these machines is far more grand in the designers mind before they start stripping down and cutting costs.
I feel a chinwag brewin!
I think the Holomod SP for CFTBL is a thing of beauty. I also think it's something that the designers may have wanted if they'd had the tech and budget available at the time.
The forum is a very trustworthy place, for the most part, and people seem to look out for each other
But, yes, when I wrote my comment, I was thinking about Rossco.Great minds think alike (and apparently so do we
).Me too
I'm sat here looking at my box of Frosties on the wall and chatting to myself
His 'tiger in a bandana' period was a low point
Okay so it's not art, but it IS fashion, apparently!
Right I gotta get some goddamn work done
I guess some mods reduce the overall market for a machine, but increase its value to the people who are into modded machines. Just like I wouldn't even consider buying my neighbour's modified car but I know he would be able to sell it for more than a standard model.
We've all got different tastes - I'm not keen on powder coated rails, but quite like chrome. No logic to it.
Pinball Translite Design: Kellogg's by MrYoshi1996 on DeviantArt
www.deviantart.com
Pinball Translite Design: Kellogg's by MrYoshi1996 on DeviantArt
They're Grrrross
Tastefully done on the right pin they def add value. Different ends of a scale…..trees and diplodocus vs chrome, mirrors and light cycles
That beautiful airbrushing peeps are getting done to armour, those back glasses by Xainex….all tat and worthless too 
I get it won’t matter to a dealer, bit like the car analogy thingy. They don’t give a sh1t about aftermarket alloys, body kits and exhausts etc…..
But a private sale? For sure, as long as it’s sought after mods…
Proof in the eating?
Look at that factory spec Tron on eBay for 5k.
Would that still be there if it was fully modded as below? I think no..
Alas…. My Tron is gone farewell my beautiful, I miss you
Only pin that should be allowed "mods" is Tommy, everything else, especially rush, led zep and Ac/dc , GNR, Metallica, etc can only have "Rockers"
My Road Show was 2.8k.
Since buying it I've done a lot to it
Lots of switch tweaking/replacing, some LEDs changed for taste (femoved some coloured GI), flipper rebuild, one Red head rebuild. Replaced sling plastics.
Rerubbered.
Playability tweaks I've since forgotten (adjusting ball guides and sensitivity of switches for example)
In my opinion all of these don't change the value at all.
Also have done s following that can be debated if they add value or not , you tell me?
Lit the start city scoop with led strip so it flashes with the start city light
Added spotlights to brighten the dark middle of
Added trough lighting.
And the following I think do add value but can be removed and priced as optional.
Mirror Blades
Pin2dmd
Afterglow Nano
Afterglow GI
Am I right?
You could call lots of the above 'mods' but some add value, others don't.
I think supermint pins are a different thing and a different market. They don't always sell easily to the general pin community but there's a handful of people who really want supermint and are happy to pay for them.
I'm happy for a game to be in good players condition, don't need a perfect cab. But a decent playfield and game that plays as intended.
Since buying it I've done a lot to it
Lots of switch tweaking/replacing, some LEDs changed for taste (femoved some coloured GI), flipper rebuild, one Red head rebuild. Replaced sling plastics.
Rerubbered.
Playability tweaks I've since forgotten (adjusting ball guides and sensitivity of switches for example)
In my opinion all of these don't change the value at all.
Also have done s following that can be debated if they add value or not , you tell me?
Lit the start city scoop with led strip so it flashes with the start city light
Added spotlights to brighten the dark middle of
Added trough lighting.
And the following I think do add value but can be removed and priced as optional.
Mirror Blades
Pin2dmd
Afterglow Nano
Afterglow GI
Am I right?
You could call lots of the above 'mods' but some add value, others don't.
I think supermint pins are a different thing and a different market. They don't always sell easily to the general pin community but there's a handful of people who really want supermint and are happy to pay for them.
I'm happy for a game to be in good players condition, don't need a perfect cab. But a decent playfield and game that plays as intended.
Fools seldom differ
If we're going down the cargument route...
Anyone who mods their fiesta with a spoiler, under lighting, exhaust that sounds like a jet taking off and has to go over speed bumps at 2mph you're a tw@t
These don't change the value much IMO, but they may cause you to secure a sale faster if there are two similar pins on the market and the buyer plays both of them. Broadly speaking, these count as 'pin is in good condition and plays better'.
If the pin works better, that should change the value, but it depends on the buyer. I've been happy to buy a pin with an obvious fault but good aesthetics - because we can fix simple mechanical faults, but I don't want to attempt a playfield replacement.
I think it does if you're comparing two similar pins. How often does that happen? Probably not that much in this market.
There are currently two CFTBL in Pinball Republic and I would certainly pay more for one than the other on casual inspection, because one of them looks rather dimly lit and drab (sorry owner of that CFTBL
). Thus, it *feels* in worse condition than the other similar pin (wrongly or rightly). So, the lighting does make a superficial difference.Again, it depends on the buyer. I haven't looked under the playfield on those two pins. But it does feel a bit like a job interview. Pins with better playfield lighting 'interview' better.
Having played both CFTBL, I had more fun playing the better-lit pin with the big screen. It's just a more enjoyable experience. Rather like playing a Godzilla rather than a whitewood of the same pin.
I would not pay extra for mirror blades TBH. They save me buying side art, but they're not a wow factor. They are an indication that the pin has been given love and attention at some point tho' - hence, the pin 'interviews' better.
Pin2dmd does add value, but - again - it depends on the buyer. With Stumblor's huge screens available for some pins, I wouldn't be keen to pay for a small colour screen in order to resell it again further down the line.
You're probably right.
I have installed mods on all my pins so far, however I wouldn't necessarily pay more for a modded game, I enjoy the process of researching, deciding on and installing mods, tweaking gameplay and lights etc to suit my tastes. If that's already done its a big part of the post purchase enjoyment gone for me.
The exceptions for this would be stuff like Colour DMD's, pinsound etc, not just because of the improvements they make but because they replace 20+ year old boards, so increase the reliability too.
Also mods that protect the game, I would 100% pay more for a game that has had cliffy protectors fitted from new, or a playfield protector and having recently fitted cliffy flipper guides to a WPC machine, those too, 100% the best bang for buck mod out there.
The exceptions for this would be stuff like Colour DMD's, pinsound etc, not just because of the improvements they make but because they replace 20+ year old boards, so increase the reliability too.
Also mods that protect the game, I would 100% pay more for a game that has had cliffy protectors fitted from new, or a playfield protector and having recently fitted cliffy flipper guides to a WPC machine, those too, 100% the best bang for buck mod out there.
Jib
Site Supporter
Before I say this, I don't think it's what people should do, I think the current system is fine, but I'm just saying it's a better option than overpricing. Rather than overpricing put a pin up for x days with a firm price, everyone who wants it at the listed price registers their interest. After x days you random pick the buyer. In practice I don't think it'd work that well, it adds work for the seller in a market where it's easy to sell atm and you probably end up with people registering interest and changing their mind. But overpricing surely isn't a solutionI beg to disagree in the nicest possible way
Pricing below market prices people out. Sellers don't want to post a For Sale ad because they're expected to sell for (say) £500 lower than what the pin is probably worth. So, they're more likely to sell to Williams Amusements (or similar) where it's going to be put back on the market for a marked-up price (because the dealer has to make a living). Once there are fewer sale ads, the remaining ones look even more of a 'bargain'. Hence, more FOMO, more impulse purchasing and - over the longer term - higher prices. It's also a haven for scammers because, if you don't know who to trust and there's a norm of throwing four-figure sums around, sight unseen, it's easy for a less-experienced buyer to get ripped off.
Neil, we agree that adding a 30cm wingspan Mothra to your Godzilla isn't adding value (folks, this is a thing. It's somewhere on Pinside. You can't see part of the playfield).
The argument is whether tasteful cosmetic mods have value. The original palantir on LoTR, for example, is a transparent ball with a huge screw sticking up the middle of it. I don't think adding an illuminated holographic one and thinking that has value to film/book fans is 'deluded'.
View attachment 171223
I think a lottery would definitely be fairer than the 'who has a van and is willing to bank transfer £Xk fastest'
I should clarify that the entire argument I'm making is that it's not 'overpricing'. There's a certain rough price (let's call it 'Y') that people think things cost. If you put something up for sale below that price, you get a stampede for a bargain. Above that price, it sits unsold for months.
If you want a quick sale, you price well below 'Y'. If you aren't serious about a sale, you price above 'Y' and hope you find someone who gives you enough money to make it worth your while.
There are loads of pins on eBay priced well above 'Y' that sit there for months. It's obvious that many of the pins posted on here are priced below 'Y' because they disappear in hours, minutes or seconds.
I'm suggesting pricing closer to 'Y'. That is probably still underpricing, because the price will still probably be below or around 'Y'.
@DRD made an interesting point on my long thread that he believes my fundamental assumptions are flawed because, in today's market, there is no 'Y'.
Jib
Site Supporter
I understand the frustration but you really don't need a van and bank transfer super fast, the large majority on here are happy to wait for Martin to collect for you. Yes you have to be lucky to see and respond to an ad first atm but that won't always be the case and I can't think of a better system for a non-auction sale. A lot of the frustration is just caused by impatience, not saying I'm immune to impatience but if you're willing to wait, you'll likely get the machine you want in the end unless it's super rareI think a lottery would definitely be fairer than the 'who has a van and is willing to bank transfer £Xk fastest'
I should clarify that the entire argument I'm making is that it's not 'overpricing'. There's a certain rough price (let's call it 'Y') that people think things cost. If you put something up for sale below that price, you get a stampede for a bargain. Above that price, it sits unsold for months.
If you want a quick sale, you price well below 'Y'. If you aren't serious about a sale, you price above 'Y' and hope you find someone who gives you enough money to make it worth your while.
There are loads of pins on eBay priced well above 'Y' that sit there for months. It's obvious that many of the pins posted on here are priced below 'Y' because they disappear in hours, minutes or seconds.
I'm suggesting pricing closer to 'Y'. That is probably still underpricing, because the price will still probably be below or around 'Y'.
@DRD made an interesting point on my long thread that he believes my fundamental assumptions are flawed because, in today's market, there is no 'Y'.
I can't get my head around the entitlement from a few on here who get cranky because they can't buy a pin due to being too slow. Personally I think what helps is building a base of friends who know what games you're looking for. I rattle on about Rollergames all the time, one became available and a pinballer friend messaged me and told me about it, so I bought it. Had he not of done that I would probably have missed it.
This whole theory of "price things higher so I have a better chance of buying it because I have more excess money than others" is so SO toxic.
This whole theory of "price things higher so I have a better chance of buying it because I have more excess money than others" is so SO toxic.
Don't tell everyone Ian or you'll spoil the surprise
Buy me a beer at Pinfest and I won't tell a soulDon't tell everyone Ian or you'll spoil the surprise