That is their pricing model. FOMO means they sell and fund the initial start up. Personally I buy premiums over LE precisely because the only difference is a few hundred worth of cosmetics.
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The OFFICIAL LICENSED 'moans about pricing' thread
- Thread starter VeeMonroe
- Start date
Surprisingly, given my comments elsewhere, I have a Godzilla Prem for largely the same reason.
The value added by the LE mods doesn't seem to match the price difference and, with Godzilla certainly, I wouldn't want one with a silver powder coat anyhow.
Also, AFAIK, you need to pre-order an LE before there are any available to play (?), which means it could theoretically be a gigantic turkey gameplay-wise.
The moment a machine is themed and the shots are given names it's on its way to being an indulgence.
A pinball machine in its purest form would be a white playfield with black numbers on it and each shot would be numerically listed (ramp 1, ramp 2, drop target 1 etc). There really is no need for it to be anything other than a darts board under glass illuminated by plain white lights.
Fortunately we don't do anything like that. We put a picture on the backglass, paint comic characters on the cabinet, stick models inside and have flashing coloured lights. We make the shots and ramps look like boats, lasers & monsters and design trick shots that make the ball travel through a ring or hit Dracula.
My point is that we're already paying for garnish that's not needed for the function of the game. So if I buy a pin that has a Borg ship in it I absolutely want to get a USS Enterprise as well because I've already subscribed to the theme.
Modding a game is not for everyone but as Wayne mentioned earlier . . . some really enjoy it.
I would and do pay more for games with mods if I like them.
You've never played 24!
I must admit to buying my last pin based on the criteria of 'has at least three banks of drop targets'...
But, yeah, the fact my three banks of drop targets also have a cool retro theme, great playfield art and - with mods - original film music, is a great thing!
Unless it's not a Stern or B/W It seems
Stern or WPC really. JJp ThirdUnless it's not a Stern or B/W It seems
System 11 games, variable quality.
Gottlieb, frightening electronics.
Early SS Bally then Williams, once again variable quality
EM, frightens people and not too popular
Zaccaria, sorry, they ALL suck gameplay wise.
But someone powder coating or changing the translite, or adding a shaker motor to a Prem, or everything else missing. doesn't make it an LE - It must be the 20p bit of plastic LE plaque and certificate that makes the difference in cost.
They also make more CE, LE Royal additions than standard.
WoZ must surely have more iterations 'limited editions' than Man Utd have wins this season.
Difference between LE and Prem is generally purely cosmetic with price difference 'justified' by people wanting the kudos
of an LE.Difference between Prem and Pro is usually mechs and rules, so the price differential is easier to justify.
I think they have a mirrored back-glass (?), but - otherwise - yes, you can basically recreate a LE to your specifications from a Prem with after-market mods.
From what I understand, the LE models arrive months earlier than the Prem/Pros, so - if you have the money and are a huge modern Stern fan - you can be playing the hot new pin before everyone else.Difference between LE and Prem is generally purely cosmetic with price difference 'justified' by people wanting the kudos
The same goes for board games. There are Kickstarters where the main benefit for backers is receiving the game months earlier than retail. For people who want to throw money at things, it gives them the opportunity to play their game before everyone else and have the kudos of having a hot new game to share with others. If they don't like the game, they trade it before it goes to retail and a larger group of gamers realise that it's a turkey. Same goes for pinball machines - once the Pro version hits arcades, you get honest feedback from pinball players who don't have financial skin in the game and, if it sucks, the LE is going to lose value at that point.
But that's only relevant if you're buying NIB, not in the second hand market once someone has
Brought over from the Bally thread so we don't derail that. Tagged @Marvello and @Aladeran. In terms of what to do, I wrote a controversial eight-page thread dealing with that.VeeMonroe said:
Dripping with cynicism here, he's potentially suggesting that you should hang around the forums in working hours so that you can send a four-figure sum of money to a stranger for a sight-unseen (except for photos) piece of vintage computing/mechanica with a high potential of having difficult/expensive-to-fix problems because that's how things roll in 2022...
Speaking as someone who went through this carousel earlier this year, that model is not practical unless you are childless (or have kids who have left home) and, also, a van.
I think people price lower on the forum than, say, on eBay and FB (I mean the reasonably priced stuff on eBay/FB). That's partly, I suspect, because people price lower when they're selling to people they believe they know and trust, and - thus - they assume that's the *real* open market price. It might also be that people are more likely to list on here with slightly lower prices in the hope of having a quick sale.
Because the pins tend to be priced slightly cheaper on here, they sell very quickly and also, for a time, there were fewer pins appearing for sale (because you could get more money selling to Williams Amusements or putting it on eBay).
Thus, the way to stop a FOMO panic over pin purchases is to sell for closer to the 'open market' price. Then, the pin takes longer to move, there are fewer people wanting to buy, and you don't need to be hovering on the forums with a van and/or a keenness for risk taking.
Price is higher on ebay because you have to pay them a percentage. Then people see the price of there and do the same on FB.
on ebay you got to also ignore the ridiculously priced stuff.
On FB too. I still remember the lady offering a FT for £15k...
seems to be an improvement in last couple of weeks, more coming up for sale here and more reasonably priced stuff on ebay.
Hoping the rising cost of living tempts owners who have knackered/unused machines sat in barns/garages/sheds and spare bedrooms to put them up for sale.
Hoping the rising cost of living tempts owners who have knackered/unused machines sat in barns/garages/sheds and spare bedrooms to put them up for sale.
Yeah ok, so all those mods on your Tron LE were sh1t then, get a grip..lol
Sold for under the going rate for a Tron LE. Sold to one of the most knowledgeable people in the hobby with vast experience of buying and selling. Of course I listed everything on it it's called full disclosure.
Tron LE or Pro with zero mods is a different pin.
To state that mods don’t add value other than a select few is untrue.
Especially in the case of Tron.
A few k is required to bring it up to standard, peeps expect to see some return on investment.
Im sure that was configured in your transaction.
If a Pin had side art I'd happily pay an extra £50 as it would cost me double to add them myself. Value is in the eye of the beholder.
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Deleted member 2463
Zacarria games are not all terrible from A gameplay POV - pinball champ 82 is decent. but the build quality and notably the plastic parts are terrible. I wouldn’t own one though.
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Deleted member 2463
for me they are worthless - I’m pricing the game on gameplay and condition.
if you’ve stuck your Poundland tub of dinosaurs and trees all over the game and think it’s worth a grand you are deluded.
Thanks for the tip Neil, Poundland here I come!
Sorry Vee this is still one of the craziest notions on this forum
So basically price them higher to price people out of the market , allowing those happy to spend more to pick up games at their leisure ? Pop over to EBay and fill your boots
I think I’ll stick with lower prices and fastest trigger finger wins
I didn’t spend all those hours in arcades as a kid honing my button speed bashing skills for nothing .I beg to disagree in the nicest possible waySorry Vee this is still one of the craziest notions on this forum
So basically price them higher to price people out of the market , allowing those happy to spend more to pick up games at their leisure ? Pop over to EBay and fill your boots
I think I’ll stick with lower prices and fastest trigger finger wins
I'm not talking about HLD prices. What I'm talking about is making prices not look so much of a 'bargain' compared to the open-market price that people stampede to purchase out of FOMO. If you're already willing to pay £6k for what is basically a grown-up toy, you're not going to be priced out by an extra £500.Pricing below market prices people out. Sellers don't want to post a For Sale ad because they're expected to sell for (say) £500 lower than what the pin is probably worth. So, they're more likely to sell to Williams Amusements (or similar) where it's going to be put back on the market for a marked-up price (because the dealer has to make a living). Once there are fewer sale ads, the remaining ones look even more of a 'bargain'. Hence, more FOMO, more impulse purchasing and - over the longer term - higher prices. It's also a haven for scammers because, if you don't know who to trust and there's a norm of throwing four-figure sums around, sight unseen, it's easy for a less-experienced buyer to get ripped off.
Neil, we agree that adding a 30cm wingspan Mothra to your Godzilla isn't adding value (folks, this is a thing. It's somewhere on Pinside. You can't see part of the playfield).
The argument is whether tasteful cosmetic mods have value. The original palantir on LoTR, for example, is a transparent ball with a huge screw sticking up the middle of it. I don't think adding an illuminated holographic one and thinking that has value to film/book fans is 'deluded'.
View attachment Palantir.MOV
I can see @VeeMonroe ’s point but it is still better imho for people to price their machines keen and get a quick sale. snooze you lose. it all works out in the end. i’ve missed loads i would have had off here but then i’ve managed to bag a few too.
most sellers on here will happily wait for you to collect or for martin to eventually turn up, so it’s not about having to drop everything immediately and go collect it same day.
all it is is keeping an eye on the for sale thread. hang around long enough and you’ll get something. failing that put out a wanted ad, ask dealers to keep an eye out, …….
most sellers on here will happily wait for you to collect or for martin to eventually turn up, so it’s not about having to drop everything immediately and go collect it same day.
all it is is keeping an eye on the for sale thread. hang around long enough and you’ll get something. failing that put out a wanted ad, ask dealers to keep an eye out, …….
As someone with a vested interest - respectfully - there's mods and then there's mods. What you're describing I wouldn't even consider to be a mod. What I and a lot of other people are trying to do is to add to the gameplay and condition of the machine, arguably making it better than what the designers originally had the budget for.
You can stick a box of cereal on your wall - but it aint art.
I couldn't disagree more with this point. This forum is probably the safest place to pick up a machine short of buying NIB.
Back on the subject of mods not adding value to a machine. . . .
It's certainly a personal choice and I don't think that anyone should add them with the expectation of getting a return because you might be disappointed.
However the suggestion that a standard clean CreatureFTBL carries the same value as Davey's is preposterous. I'm sure many would love to think that they could buy Ant's amazing T2 restoration for £4k but it ain't happening.
I know neither of the fellas want to sell and that wasn't their intention when restoring the games. But they'll have both been offered considerably more than the going rate for the precise reason that they are modded so well.
I got offered £8k for Deadpool at the last pinfest purely because it was "finished".
Maybe not everyone will pay it but there's definitely plenty of people who'll pay a premium for a game with extra bells & whistles.
It's certainly a personal choice and I don't think that anyone should add them with the expectation of getting a return because you might be disappointed.
However the suggestion that a standard clean CreatureFTBL carries the same value as Davey's is preposterous. I'm sure many would love to think that they could buy Ant's amazing T2 restoration for £4k but it ain't happening.
I know neither of the fellas want to sell and that wasn't their intention when restoring the games. But they'll have both been offered considerably more than the going rate for the precise reason that they are modded so well.
I got offered £8k for Deadpool at the last pinfest purely because it was "finished".
Maybe not everyone will pay it but there's definitely plenty of people who'll pay a premium for a game with extra bells & whistles.
I think a lot of people don’t realise this. Do you think the artwork designers put all that work in and then said a black coin door , rails, legs and lockdown bar are really going to finish this off! Similar to cars and motorbikes, they have to fit into a price/profit range often at the expense of future owners who see their mild steel exhausts rotting out and wonder why their stock brakes and suspension are just not upto the performance of the rest of the bike/ car.
Agreed, Your mods I would consider add much needed light near the back end of CFTBL (Lollipops). Although not popular here, the HolomodSP in the lagoon is also adding more than just a piece of plastic on the playfield.
Sadly I don't think i'd bother selling my 'modded' pins on this forum due to people not appreciating the time and effort put in just to source these parts and install them, let alone the restoration work I put in to getting the machine back into a pleasent state. I'll stick to private sales for these kind of pins.