The OFFICIAL LICENSED 'moans about pricing' thread

[JT.]

I stopped voting years ago, all have their own agendas and talk a load of crap.

The now Welsh secretary Simon Hart knocked on my front door, he was the local Tory candidate at the time. Labour were in power then and he started slagging them off with how bad the NHS has got etc, little did he know I was just on the other side of 18 months of treatment for cancer plus other operations before that (hernias & knee) and was very happy with the NHS as were other people I know. I let him know and he cut the uninvited call quick and was gone

Now I see him on the news and laugh about that day
Another one turned up the other week and I just said we are not tories here with an angry look and she left pretty quick too (had the hump that day)

Talking about unsolicited calls, I had the Jerhovah's Witnesses knock on the door a few years back. Conversation went something like:

Me: Opens door
Them: "What a beautiful day!"
Me: "Well, it was until you turned up."
My 5 year old daughter from behind me: "I believe in cows!"
Me: Closes door

This makes both me and my, now quite a bit older, daughter laugh every time we see a Jerhovah, but I'm sure it'd work with politician's too!

 

[Gonzo]

I stopped voting years ago, all have their own agendas and talk a load of crap.

Me too. I've voted for each of the three main parties at one time or another but they all end up self serving regardless of their initial intentions when taking up politics. Once the snout gets in the trough a lot of the good intentions go out of the window.

The thing that always astounds me is how partizan voters are to one political party. . . they treat them like football teams.

As for the 'leaders' Most seem completely devoid of any sort of leadership qualities at all. May, Cameron, Corbyn, Johnson, Starmer etc . . . . these are not leaders. I've been on team building courses, activity weekends and all sorts of things where we've been asked to select a leader, spokesman or nominee to lead the group. That mob above wouldn't stand out in a group of 50 people so how they've risen to the top is beyond me.

Billy Connolly once said something like. . . "The desire to become a politician should automatically exclude you from becoming one".

I hate the fact that so many study to to work in politics. I'd like each and every MP to have help a proper job for at least 10 years before getting into politics.

 

[MajesticPinball]

Didn't we quite literally have the same thread created? Why are people so obsessed with what stuff sells for? Guess what, if you're happy to pay a price for a game, pay it... If not move along. Go and play pinball and stop worrying so much about whose got what money where and when.

 

[VeeMonroe]

As for the 'leaders' Most seem completely devoid of any sort of leadership qualities at all. May, Cameron, Corbyn, Johnson, Starmer etc . . . . these are not leaders. I've been on team building courses, activity weekends and all sorts of things where we've been asked to select a leader, spokesman or nominee to lead the group. That mob above wouldn't stand out in a group of 50 people so how they've risen to the top is beyond me.

I was heavily involved in national politics when I was a student. It's how I met my now-husband.

Political parties are no longer mass membership organisations, so there's a very small number of activists and the younger ones (there are loads of retired people) are often total politics geeks whose entire life is organised around party political activism. They get involved in student politics, get jobs in politics, and then get put forwards for council and parliamentary seats.

 

[VeeMonroe]

Didn't we quite literally have the same thread created? Why are people so obsessed with what stuff sells for? Guess what, if you're happy to pay a price for a game, pay it... If not move along. Go and play pinball and stop worrying so much about whose got what money where and when.

Because people are getting savaged on the forum For Sale threads (among other things)

I've got a pin I'm potentially looking to sell that has a load of valuable mods and I'm too afraid to list it for anything approaching the amount of money the mods are worth. Because a bunch of people will tell me my mods are worthless, that pins used to be cheaper than that, and - potentially - they might have a pointless argument about skill posts too (because, wha-hay, it *doesn't* have skill posts, so that's worth debating for pages). So, I'm considering offering it for trade and then no one needs to talk about money, just approximately comparative value, and I don't need to worry about being eaten alive.

I've got a pretty thick skin so, if I feel that way, there's something not quite right

 

[MajesticPinball]

Because people are getting savaged on the forum For Sale threads (among other things)

I've got a pin I'm potentially looking to sell that has a load of valuable mods and I'm too afraid to list it for anything approaching the amount of money the mods are worth. Because a bunch of people will tell me my mods are worthless, that pins used to be cheaper than that, and - potentially - they might have a pointless argument about skill posts too (because, wha-hay, it *doesn't* have skill posts, so that's worth debating for pages). So, I'm considering offering it for trade and then no one needs to talk about money, just approximately comparative value, and I don't need to worry about being eaten alive.

I've got a pretty thick skin so, if I feel that way, there's something not quite right

A lot of mods are worthless. Colour DMDs, Comet LEDs etc fair enough, they are valuable improvements however (for example) random trinkets and pieces of junk stuck all over a playfield hold no value, to me at least. I think people seem to hold the opinion of "this machine owes me X because that's what I've put into it" - if you spend £100 on neon sparkly pink powder coat it doesn't instantly add £100 to its "value"

 

[steve brum]

Only pinsound and color dmd would make me personally value a game more . Often tat just devalues a game

 

[Epotech]

I'm too afraid to list it for anything approaching the amount of money the mods are worth

ok, so strip the mods & sell them separate. See what you get. With only the 2 exceptions above, mods don't add value. End of.

 

[VeeMonroe]

ok, so strip the mods & sell them separate. See what you get. With only the 2 exceptions above, mods don't add value. End of.

Yes, but - critically - some people are mod-lovers and like mods. Thus, it's up to the buyer to determine how much they value the mods - not a random bystander engaging in fly-by posting.

This is part of the whole problem IMO. It's commendable to comment on sales threads to help community members avoid scammers and p**s artists. It's another thing to determine what other people value.

Personally, I would value a powder-coated JP2 (for example) more than a non-powder-coated one, provided I liked the colour, because I'm a mod-lover and, if I buy a stripped down pin, I have to then re-buy all the commonly-fitted mods and do the powder-coating myself, which is a total p**s nuisance. That's my preference and my business, surely. It's the same as skill posts. Flag it up for information, out of community spirit, and move on...

 

[MajesticPinball]

I just think we all need to stop rattling on about pricing, value, worth and actually add some value to our little community instead. Endless moaning discussions like this are just exhausting and are just bringing the community down and putting a negative atmosphere on the forum.

 

[Sgt GrizZ]

Me checking out this insane thread ....

Me concluding this would be the best course of action ....

 

[Arv]

 

[Epotech]

It's another thing to determine what other people value.

But this is what is happening, lets say a JP3 is 7K and you've 2K of tat on it. You advertise for 9K and take 8.5K off list.

Next person looks at the whats it worth thread and some helpful person says one just sold for 9K. No it didn't and they don't take the condition into account, presto JP3 are now 9K in peoples eyes.
Now you get the "good price" crowd commenting on the sale and the next newb overpays then wants that money back come sale time.

This is why I largely done buying used. Its all BS. Yes you can ask whatever you want and there should really be the option to allow or disallow comments in an advert you are paying for (donation).

 

[Jib]

Because people are getting savaged on the forum For Sale threads (among other things)

I've got a pin I'm potentially looking to sell that has a load of valuable mods and I'm too afraid to list it for anything approaching the amount of money the mods are worth. Because a bunch of people will tell me my mods are worthless, that pins used to be cheaper than that, and - potentially - they might have a pointless argument about skill posts too (because, wha-hay, it *doesn't* have skill posts, so that's worth debating for pages). So, I'm considering offering it for trade and then no one needs to talk about money, just approximately comparative value, and I don't need to worry about being eaten alive.

I've got a pretty thick skin so, if I feel that way, there's something not quite right

Just list it for what you want for it Vee, as you said you have thick skin. No doubt some people will think it’s overpriced, someone else may not and will buy it or make a close offer. You’ll know if it’s overpriced in this market if it’s still for sale in a week or two. It’s worth what some one is willing to pay and that will be different for everyone.

 

[Jay Walker]

Talking about unsolicited calls, I had the Jerhovah's Witnesses knock on the door a few years back. Conversation went something like:

Me: Opens door
Them: "What a beautiful day!"
Me: "Well, it was until you turned up."
My 5 year old daughter from behind me: "I believe in cows!"
Me: Closes door

This makes both me and my, now quite a bit older, daughter laugh every time we see a Jerhovah, but I'm sure it'd work with politician's too!

A comic and impressionist outlined a reaction to Jehovahs Witnesses;

"Could we come in and discuss the Bible?"

'Well, okay, but we're just about to hold a Black Mass'


* Hmm, the b-word linked to AC/DC 'Back In Black LE'

 

[Doggard]

As the great billy Connolly once said- if you wouldn’t buy them a drink at the bar, then don’t vote for the f*ckers !

 

[Wayne J]

Thus, it's up to the buyer to determine how much they value the mods - not a random bystander engaging in fly-by posting.

But surely 'random bystanders' are potential customers - IF the price is right

Personally, I would value a powder-coated JP2 (for example) more than a non-powder-coated one, provided I liked the colour

And there's the thing PERSONALLY. I couldn't give a monkeys if someone has powder coated the side armour although some people would powder coat their balls if they could - most don't go the whole hog and remove the coin door, or its surround, and have that powder coated, because it's too much effort.

I've found a lot of modders, enjoy the modding more than actually playing the game itself - once they've added everything they can to it they move it on. A lot expect close to, if not more, than what they've paid for those mods - even though they were a personal choice.

FWIW IMHO Mods should be totally reversible and not automatically factored in to sales price if they're not.

 

[Wayne J]

Billy Connolly once said something like. . . "The desire to become a politician should automatically exclude you from becoming one".

Followed up with "Don't vote for them, it only encourages them."

 

[Wayne J]

Only pinsound and color dmd would make me personally value a game more

I'd add shaker motor, and possibly invisiglass.

The thing all 4 have in common? They can all be removed and added to any other machine.

 

[VeeMonroe]

I've found a lot of modders, enjoy the modding more than actually playing the game itself - once they've added everything they can to it they move it on. A lot expect close to, if not more, than what they've paid for those mods - even though they were a personal choice.

FWIW IMHO Mods should be totally reversible and not automatically factored in to sales price if they're not.

I think you're mostly talking about modern Sterns and it depends on what you mean by mods.

I have a Flash Gordon with powder coating and that is 100% factored into the sale price because it's part of the restoration done on this pin, which also includes a hard top. It's patently not the same condition as a Flash Gordon that hasn't had a tonne of work done on it. Or, more properly put, where does 'mod' stop and 'restoration' start?

But surely 'random bystanders' are potential customers - IF the price is right

No. Because it's unclear how many of the people commenting on the sales threads are actually interested in buying the pin that is for sale.

I appreciate that extensive modding, powder coating, etc. affects the number of customers, but it doesn't affect the value. It's the same as 'modding' houses. If you do something funky, you're going to reduce the pool of buyers, but it doesn't mean - if done well - that someone isn't going to appreciate/value the thing you've done.

 

[Calimori]

We have gone through prices. Hit politics and a go at religions.
Then gone into personal preferences on what is mods are worth. No one can benefit from that endless debate.
If this doesn’t stay on the topic. I am going to lock it. (New motto)

 

[MajesticPinball]

We have gone through prices. Hit politics and a go at religions.
Then gone into personal preferences on what is mods are worth. No one can benefit from that endless debate.
If this doesn’t stay on the topic. I am going to lock it. (New motto)

Just lock it now, lost count of how many threads like this we have had now. Seems the hobby is more about money now days than flippin' around a metal ball.

 

[Epotech]

Flash Gordon with powder coating and that is 100% factored into the sale price because it's part of the restoration

FG wasn't painted and so is not part of a restoration. You've devalued it in my eyes by doing this.

 

[ChrisH]

The mods are an interesting point.
Personally beyond Pinsound and maybe a Colour DMD I'm not a fan, and a modded game is worth less to me as I'd have to invest time in undoing it all and making it stock again.

 

[JustLikeMe]

I'd add shaker motor, and possibly invisiglass.

The thing all 4 have in common? They can all be removed and added to any other machine.

Agreed. I still think invisiglass is the single best 'mod' you can add to a game.

 

[AlanJ]

whenever you are selling something, price it at whatever price you like. if it sells you priced it fairly or too cheap, if it doesn’t, then you haven’t found anyone yet who wants to buy it and feels the asking price is fair. you can choose to keep it or adjust your asking price.

all prices are negotiable.

if you are listing it on here: be prepared for criticism, put your flameproof clothes on and suck it up, largely ignoring the pointless chatter on your for sale listing.

good mods add value. poor mods don’t, and may even devalue.

there is no definitive list of good mods or of poor mods. there is a crossover area in the middle up for debate - please start the “good mod, bad mod” thread.

 

[Wayne J]

I have a Flash Gordon with powder coating and that is 100% factored into the sale price because it's part of the restoration done on this pin

RESTORATION
noun

1.
the action of returning something to a former owner, place, or condition.

 

[Matt Vince]

Now we are talking! Good mods: The Who, Small Faces....

 

[Paul]

If i had £1 for each pin that was listed and i thought was too much money, I'd have a gamesroom full of pins by now... but keep quiet as there's rules around what i can and cant say....

 

[Gonzo]

The locked thread yesterday had 6000 views and pages of posts so by any measurement it was a successful conversation. The one before was locked and now this one might be too despite 1000+ views in a day.

Conversations and threads are the lifeblood of a forum particularly when there is so much competition from WhatsApp & social media. It's incredibly difficult to manufacture and steer a conversation in a certain way. I didn't join in with the topic but thought it was a good debate and read it all. . . . surely it's just easier to not read a particular thread than it is to ask for posts and comments to be locked.