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The OFFICIAL LICENSED 'moans about pricing' thread

JAG555 said:
I think the sellers need to stop thinking it’s 2022……
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There’s some of that; but then again, not many people in a hurry to sell either in my experience if they don’t need the space or £. I’m still trying to source a pin I like within budget- couple of options might come off but it might mean buying off the forum, EBay or upping my budget and buying from traders given the lack of options currently. Also echo what @Paul has just said- anything that’s priced right is still selling
 
Yeah, I also agree, the market will decide. Which basically means in November so far, only 4 machines were / are priced correctly on here (and that included that beautiful EJ).

I have sold two machines in the last 4 weeks (The Mandalorian and regrettable, Xenon), both off of here unfortunately (Facebook and direct to a contact who has wanted a Xenon for years), but both due to me needing space and funds.

Everyone should know where the market is by now, so if they want to sell, they need to be realistic.

It’s just my 10 cents and anyone can of course do what they want, but personally I don’t see the point of listing it with a price that is not realistic in the current market and it just sits there.
 
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SteadyP said:
There’s some of that; but then again, not many people in a hurry to sell either in my experience if they don’t need the space or £. I’m still trying to source a pin I like within budget- couple of options might come off but it might mean buying off the forum, EBay or upping my budget and buying from traders given the lack of options currently. Also echo what @Paul has just said- anything that’s priced right is still selling
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It’s always risky putting a wanted ad up, as the prices are not open to the market, so they are usually high.
 
JAG555 said:
Bloody hell, just a rough count up, there are 25 unsold machines listed in the matketplace that have been listed or bumped in November (there are a lot more after this date).

Only 4 machines have sold in that same period…..

Surely something has to break this stalemate……
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Half of them are Godzillas 😂 Only slightly exaggerating . Good time to be hunting a GZ .
 
SteadyP said:
not many people in a hurry to sell
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hmm. I suspect it is far more likely that they actively want to sell but can't come to terms with the fact that they're going to make a loss.

There are so many machines that have been up for months where people keep adding a hopeful bump every couple of weeks, or starting a dutch auction and dropping it £50 a time (they need to add a zero after the 50 imo) and then quietly giving up after it's reduced by a couple of hundred quid. There's some real dross up for massively inflated prices too tbh - some of it at least a thousand quid overpriced level of dross.
 
JT. said:
hmm. I suspect it is far more likely that they actively want to sell but can't come to terms with the fact that they're going to make a loss.

There are so many machines that have been up for months where people keep adding a hopeful bump every couple of weeks, or starting a dutch auction and dropping it £50 a time (they need to add a zero after the 50 imo) and then quietly giving up after it's reduced by a couple of hundred quid. There's some real dross up for massively inflated prices too tbh - some of it at least a thousand quid overpriced level of dross.
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Spot on!

I also love when people comment, ‘bargain price’, knowing very well they also have one they want to sell soon. It’s like a bloody pinball cartel to keep the prices up 😂😂

If it’s a real Dutch Auction, you go until it sells, not until the seller won’t go any lower, that is a reserve.
 
It's mentally tough to take large losses, especially if you are getting out of the hobby. If you are staying in then it's all relative as your next Pin should also be priced competitively.

NIB prices though add an extra level of complexity, they haven't come down in price like used Pins have.
 
No, and NIB should be coming down, given the stronger pound.

I just think there are a three main reasons to sell, need funds, need space or you want to freshen it up.

A lot of sales I see are from a 4th reason, either making money or trying to stop a loss. The market has spoken, so it’s time to be realistic!
 
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Marvello said:
especially if you are getting out of the hobby.
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As I suspect a significant number of EBay sellers are; whereas active forum users on here and FB groups (to a lesser extent) have known since before the summer that prices were sliding. It’s a bitter pill if you paid £4k in 2021 and are being told a game is now worth £3k if that- even worse for NIB so it’s affecting all ends of the market.
 
JAG555 said:
No, and NIB should be coming down, given the stronger pound.

I just think there are a three main reasons to sell, need funds, need space or you want to freshen it up.

A lot of sales I see are from a 4th reason, either making money or trying to stop a loss. The market has spoken, so it’s time to be realistic!
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The pound has weakened by about 10 cents over the last month and a half (US election) and still sliding, so your optimism around NIB prices may be misplaced
 
JAG555 said:
No, and NIB should be coming down, given the stronger pound.
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Agreed. I don't see NIB as any different - they have decreased in value, massively - hence why there are so many sat unsold. It's just sellers not being realistic.
 
Marvello said:
NIB prices though add an extra level of complexity, they haven't come down in price like used Pins have.
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Nib have come down in price. A couple of years ago the pinball heaven price for a pro godIlla peaked at £8,695 delivered and with a 2 year warranty.

A new gz pro is now £8,095 at pinball heaven. That's 7 percent lower. And general
Inflation has been 7 percent over the past 2 years so in real terms its 14 percent cheaper.

A 25% discount for a 2 or 3 year old pin without any warranty seems a bit on the high side to me. Warranty, delivery, hassle of picking a used one up, convenience of getting a new one, speed of delivery not having the skills to fix a used one, the unboxing joy and of course condition quickly adds up to fill the gap And anybody that has £6k to be able to afford a used pro probably could stretch to £8k for a new one. Similarly at £8k / £11k for a premium.

Used recent sterns seem a better bargain at a 25% to 30% discount to current new price when compared to 2 years ago when the discount was 10%. Buy I could see the gap widening further and it has already done so for the "lesser" titles.
 
I've sold 3 machines around Sept/Oct - Halloween CE, Godzilla Prem and EHOH. All went for less than I had hoped but I let them go at what the market decided was fair. As a result, I have adjusted my figures for what I will pay to buy my next pins by using the same margins of depreciation from these 3. I don't personally think thats unrealistic but unless other sellers come to the conclusion that prices have changed then we are in a stalemate situation. I assume anyone else thats sold a pin recently is not chomping at the bit to buy another machine that is 2k over what they just sold a similar tier game for that should be in the same price bracket. People can obviously ask whatever they like for their games and hold out for a buyer for as long as they like but all it takes is for someone else to list the same game in similar condition for 2k less and then thats almost game over for them - everyone will now see that lower price as the new ceiling for the game (unless its blatantly too cheap and sells in seconds). Has the market downturn put me off buying NIB? Surprisingly not! With the current overpricing of some 2nd hand machines, I'd much rather buy a new machine for a few hundred more than someone is selling a 3 or 4 year old pin thats 2k over where I feel it should be. Thats probably the only positive from all the high priced machines on here that it makes NIB seem more palatable.
 
Jason Catrine said:
Has the market downturn put me off buying NIB? Surprisingly not! With the current overpricing of some 2nd hand machines, I'd much rather buy a new machine for a few hundred more than someone is selling a 3 or 4 year old pin thats 2k over where I feel it should be. Thats probably the only positive from all the high priced machines on here that it makes NIB seem more palatable.
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That logic really only works if the secondhand machines are selling, which they are not.

There is also no competition in the secondhand market at the minute. Look at the three identical games up for sale, you would think they would be battling to get the sale by lowering, but two haven’t even reduced (or reduced inline with the lowest), bonkers!
 
It’s a shame - I’ve made a point of playing all the AP games and they’re pretty good fun (even BBQ). Just don’t get why they pushed Nordman’s game back and went with BBQ. A WhiteWater 2 sort of title would’ve sold far better- Fix doesn’t seem interested in making money
 
SteadyP said:
It’s a shame - I’ve made a point of playing all the AP games and they’re pretty good fun (even BBQ). Just don’t get why they pushed Nordman’s game back and went with BBQ. A WhiteWater 2 sort of title would’ve sold far better- Fix doesn’t seem interested in making money
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I’d love a whitewater 2 by nordman
 
I heard recently that AP have had a falling out with Nordman, or Nordman spat his dummy out about something so WW2 from AP is unlikely now.

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I had a Hot Wheels, which for pinball I think is an amazing theme (cars, ramps, tracks and loops).

My opinion is that it was very well built, great art, OK sound and music, boring rules and even worse layout.

I really wished AP had nailed it, but they seem to make some really strange / poor decisions.
 
We all know who are odds on!

I actually really hope AP has a great next game and it sells loads, but just look at their track record!
 
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