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The OFFICIAL LICENSED 'moans about pricing' thread
- Thread starter VeeMonroe
- Start date
Yep Money is tight at the mo and will get tighter post budget I predict.
I've no idea what interest rates are going to do in the future.
I've no idea what interest rates are going to do in the future.
Ashbo
Site Supporter
Compared to a few years ago, rotating pins is now more expensive. Just like second hand cars, if you lose money every time you buy, you will change car less.
Some great pins on the market, but unless you have room to capitalise and keep a collection growing, you will be running at more of a loss than a few years ago.
It's back to the norm, and basic economics.
I for one have found other things to fill the space that please the whole family (not just me). Jukeboxes. Cost less and I'm not allowed to rotate.
Some great pins on the market, but unless you have room to capitalise and keep a collection growing, you will be running at more of a loss than a few years ago.
It's back to the norm, and basic economics.
I for one have found other things to fill the space that please the whole family (not just me). Jukeboxes. Cost less and I'm not allowed to rotate.
There’s an ever growing gap between NIB prices and the price people are willing to pay for a second hand game.
Just because the original owner coughed up say 9k on a pro doesn’t mean other people value it at more than 6. There’s lot of games now that are sitting unsold even at reasonable prices.
I’d be very nervous about buying any new games now. Turns out a “keeper” might just have to be that.
I suspect Godzilla owners are going to have to take a big hit on sales prices.
Just because the original owner coughed up say 9k on a pro doesn’t mean other people value it at more than 6. There’s lot of games now that are sitting unsold even at reasonable prices.
I’d be very nervous about buying any new games now. Turns out a “keeper” might just have to be that.
I suspect Godzilla owners are going to have to take a big hit on sales prices.
Jib
Site Supporter
I listened to the pinball show podcast and something that keeps the US market moving is trade ins. If Zach has a bunch of Venom prems sitting in stock that per his agreement he’s not allowed to sell under let’s say $9500, there’s nothing stopping him offering $3000 for a trade in that he knows is only worth $2000, pretty much discounting the nib $1000 without getting in trouble. It keeps the market moving, gets the new games in peoples homes where more people get to play them and maybe decide they want one and frees up space and money at the distro for the next title.
It’s not a great option here because distros have to add vat to whatever they buy as a trade in and PH are really the only distro with any significant stock anyway and how much of that is sitting not selling, not a lot I don’t think. They don’t need to free up space and money and other companies here don’t either because they don’t keep much, if anything in stock.
Stuff is still selling if the price is low enough. Some people are out of space but other people will find more space and new people are always entering/ re-entering the hobby, even if not at the same rate as a few years ago.
I think there’s people who are willing to take the hit on a nib because they just see it as the cost of a hobby and then people who are not willing or can’t afford to take a hit on anything, new or used. A couple of machines I’ve sold, after they are pending I’ve almost immediately had someone contact me that if the deal falls through to let them know. People want a machine for sale but are unsure if it will sell for the same amount so don’t buy it, then it sells and that was the confirmation they needed. Or they just get non-buyers remorse
Also some people are happy to make offers and some people either don’t think to or are worried they might offend. The Jaws that sold for 7050, there were more people who would have had it for that, so make an offer, you never know. As long as you are serious and will buy it if accepted and are also not offended if the seller then negotiates or says no, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with making an offer. I never mind getting an offer on something I'm selling as long as the person is serious, I can always say no thanks or try and agree a price somewhere in the middle. Do other people feel differently? Do offers annoy/ offend?
It’s not a great option here because distros have to add vat to whatever they buy as a trade in and PH are really the only distro with any significant stock anyway and how much of that is sitting not selling, not a lot I don’t think. They don’t need to free up space and money and other companies here don’t either because they don’t keep much, if anything in stock.
Stuff is still selling if the price is low enough. Some people are out of space but other people will find more space and new people are always entering/ re-entering the hobby, even if not at the same rate as a few years ago.
I think there’s people who are willing to take the hit on a nib because they just see it as the cost of a hobby and then people who are not willing or can’t afford to take a hit on anything, new or used. A couple of machines I’ve sold, after they are pending I’ve almost immediately had someone contact me that if the deal falls through to let them know. People want a machine for sale but are unsure if it will sell for the same amount so don’t buy it, then it sells and that was the confirmation they needed. Or they just get non-buyers remorse
Also some people are happy to make offers and some people either don’t think to or are worried they might offend. The Jaws that sold for 7050, there were more people who would have had it for that, so make an offer, you never know. As long as you are serious and will buy it if accepted and are also not offended if the seller then negotiates or says no, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with making an offer. I never mind getting an offer on something I'm selling as long as the person is serious, I can always say no thanks or try and agree a price somewhere in the middle. Do other people feel differently? Do offers annoy/ offend?
Great write upI listened to the pinball show podcast and something that keeps the US market moving is trade ins. If Zach has a bunch of Venom prems sitting in stock that per his agreement he’s not allowed to sell under let’s say $9500, there’s nothing stopping him offering $3000 for a trade in that he knows is only worth $2000, pretty much discounting the nib $1000 without getting in trouble. It keeps the market moving, gets the new games in peoples homes where more people get to play them and maybe decide they want one and frees up space and money at the distro for the next title.
It’s not a great option here because distros have to add vat to whatever they buy as a trade in and PH are really the only distro with any significant stock anyway and how much of that is sitting not selling, not a lot I don’t think. They don’t need to free up space and money and other companies here don’t either because they don’t keep much, if anything in stock.
Stuff is still selling if the price is low enough. Some people are out of space but other people will find more space and new people are always entering/ re-entering the hobby, even if not at the same rate as a few years ago.
I think there’s people who are willing to take the hit on a nib because they just see it as the cost of a hobby and then people who are not willing or can’t afford to take a hit on anything, new or used. A couple of machines I’ve sold, after they are pending I’ve almost immediately had someone contact me that if the deal falls through to let them know. People want a machine for sale but are unsure if it will sell for the same amount so don’t buy it, then it sells and that was the confirmation they needed. Or they just get non-buyers remorse
Also some people are happy to make offers and some people either don’t think to or are worried they might offend. The Jaws that sold for 7050, there were more people who would have had it for that, so make an offer, you never know. As long as you are serious and will buy it if accepted and are also not offended if the seller then negotiates or says no, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with making an offer. I never mind getting an offer on something I'm selling as long as the person is serious, I can always say no thanks or try and agree a price somewhere in the middle. Do other people feel differently? Do offers annoy/ offend?
One thing I think is people mainly new people to the hobby over the last few years have the perception that you don’t really lose money on pinball s maybe over covid time yes but things are back to normal
When I started out in pinball I had absolutely no intention of making money if I could buy a pin clean it up play and enjoy it for 6 months to a year if I made a loss then I have had the enjoyment of owning it and playing it
You can no longer buy a nib pin and used in some cases and expect to get your money back as is same with most purchases
It’s pretty much back to normal on a nib pin loss now the biggest difference is the rrp
Pre covid
Pro £6495 now £8495
Premium £8495 now £11495
Le £9995 now £16000
If you work out percentage the loss on a used nib is probably same as before covid
Another thing that people who have been in the game for many years is the market has been amazing for you with taf being £1000 back in the day t2 £500 many people have made some very good money over the year but now times have changed are moaning like mad
I think lowering the rrp would be easy to do but I other ways difficult if you suddenly drop the price by 2k say on a jaws this is just an example then you would upset distributor s who have it in stock and people who payed the full rrp in the first place
Nib are over priced and we have seen that recently with poor sales even when jaws was reduced it wasn’t flying out of the door
Some ap pins being reduced by nearly half and are not selling things will have to change
I still think if a used pin is priced right it will sell my gz sold in 2 mins at £8500 it was like back in the old days inbox going mad my tron le not so much but you have to take the rough with the smooth I will be listening my scooby doo ce soon and I know I will take a kicking on that but that’s just how things go
I never seem to get many offers on the pins I sell that’s maybe because they are priced correctly but I don’t think there is any harm in putting an offer in sold Beatles to Neil recently he put an offer in I accept and jobs done same with the stranger things le
You do from time to time get some **** take offers but I tend not to reply to them
Offers are fine. What is really taking the **** is if someone makes an offer then comes to collect and then starts to haggle. I’ve only had it once but it totally frustrated me. Unsurprisingly they also wanted to pay in cash as they thought that gave them an edge. It doesn’t as all it means is I’ve then got to take time out of my day to go to a bank (which are never open outside of my work hours 
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And spend the interim time worrying that you've accepted a handful of fake notes too...It doesn’t as all it means is I’ve then got to take time out of my day to go to a bank (which are never open outside of my work hours
Bobbdobalina
Site Supporter
How does the £2350 Wh20 on eBay fit into the new price narrative?
So where would you get the best price for your pinball nowadays?
Williams amusements and such dealers?
Here ( depending on title)?
I’m actually glad I’ve no plans to sell anytime soon.
So where would you get the best price for your pinball nowadays?
Williams amusements and such dealers?
Here ( depending on title)?
I’m actually glad I’ve no plans to sell anytime soon.
Re Whitewater. No topper takes off a grand then factor condition, a tidy one with correct topper will still be £4k
The forum is still a great place to sell desirable games . Those where theme outweighs substance eBay is the place to go and always has been. About to list a Flintstones. Experience tells you it's a title that will only bring tumbleweed here . But less so than Vector !
The forum is still a great place to sell desirable games . Those where theme outweighs substance eBay is the place to go and always has been. About to list a Flintstones. Experience tells you it's a title that will only bring tumbleweed here . But less so than Vector !
I bailed at 2300. It needs a new playfield doesn't have a topper and needs a lot of work. By the time I've done all that I may as well just buy another White water and save my time/hassle
Bobbdobalina
Site Supporter
That’s where there’s a massive price disparagy I think. A rough Wh20 at £2-3k Vs a nice one at £4-5k but way more than £2k of work to get the former to the latter.
I’ve found this in parts alone with my MM conversion. Add in labour and it’s insane.
I’ve found this in parts alone with my MM conversion. Add in labour and it’s insane.
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Looking back on my previous metric for the state-of-the-market: "whether the overall backlog of adverts for sale on here is increasing or decreasing", the figures are:
So whilst mid-summer has never been a brilliant time to sell on here, the market still appears to still be in decline, and perhaps getting worse (caveat: this last point is very hard to judge over this relatively short time frame and data-set).
As an aside, that for-sale section probably needs house-keeping/pruning @Paul - some of the adverts go back to 2022.
- June '23 was 4 full pages of adverts long.
- March '24 6 pages
- May '24 6.5 pages.
- Sept '24, today, it's just into it's 8th page.
So whilst mid-summer has never been a brilliant time to sell on here, the market still appears to still be in decline, and perhaps getting worse (caveat: this last point is very hard to judge over this relatively short time frame and data-set).
As an aside, that for-sale section probably needs house-keeping/pruning @Paul - some of the adverts go back to 2022.
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2011
- Messages
- 3,602
Offers are fine. What is really taking the **** is if someone makes an offer then comes to collect and then starts to haggle. I’ve only had it once but it totally frustrated me. Unsurprisingly they also wanted to pay in cash as they thought that gave them an edge. It doesn’t as all it means is I’ve then got to take time out of my day to go to a bank (which are never open outside of my work hours
Same, only had it once with someone here who I won't name and it was many years ago when I think the 'haggle' consisted of £40 less than I wanted so it wasn't a great loss but I found it extremely rude. We had agreed a price and I basically got told 'I'm not giving you what we agreed, and if you don't take it I'm walking away.' It's a crappy tactic but you've basically got the seller over a barrel unless they back out there and then. Wouldn't ever agree to it again, I'd tell them to get lost nowadays.
I really do not get peoples moaning on other threads about 'loosing money on NIB'.
You buy a car. Drive it off the forecourt and it is worth less.
Stern pinball machines lets say are like Ford cars. Good workhorse machines that I include in this price drop.
You get the odd 'Bugatti' that does not degrade the same way (perhaps Alice in Wonderland will be like this) - but this is usually down to demand. Like BBB. Someone can ask £20K and say 'find another'.
But honestly - if you moan about loosing money on a JJP/STERN/SPOOKY etc then all I would tell you to do is buy a used game and quit your moaning. If you want a game as soon as its out, because you watched some videos and 'had to have it' be prepared for a loss.
The best way not to loose money in this hobby is buy HUO used.
The days are over when you can sell your Stern from 5 years ago for more than what you paid are long gone.
You buy a car. Drive it off the forecourt and it is worth less.
Stern pinball machines lets say are like Ford cars. Good workhorse machines that I include in this price drop.
You get the odd 'Bugatti' that does not degrade the same way (perhaps Alice in Wonderland will be like this) - but this is usually down to demand. Like BBB. Someone can ask £20K and say 'find another'.
But honestly - if you moan about loosing money on a JJP/STERN/SPOOKY etc then all I would tell you to do is buy a used game and quit your moaning. If you want a game as soon as its out, because you watched some videos and 'had to have it' be prepared for a loss.
The best way not to loose money in this hobby is buy HUO used.
The days are over when you can sell your Stern from 5 years ago for more than what you paid are long gone.
All true, but the difference in price between NIB and used feels greater than ever, and in my eyes isn't sustainable.
No one is expecting NIB not to lose money, it's the amount they are now losing.
The depreciation on my Lebowski is most likely the nail in the coffin for me buying any more NIB.
I have lost on every game I have sold, with exception of Stranger Things.
You cannot expect buy NIB and not expect to lose, surely it is expected.
I will do a proper post once my The Mandalorian is sold and gone, but I think the market is in really bad shape and heading towards a collapse!
You cannot expect buy NIB and not expect to lose, surely it is expected.
I will do a proper post once my The Mandalorian is sold and gone, but I think the market is in really bad shape and heading towards a collapse!
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2014
- Messages
- 309
Agree with that last statement. A perfect storm of poor exchange rates, machines bought in a pandemic at inflated rates, oversupply of new titles mixed together with a healthy supply of FOMO.
And here we are. Not approaching a crash, but in one.
Seems that an ever diminishing number of people on here are buying and selling amongst a smaller and smaller group which will eventually just go pop leaving many people with overpriced machines that no one will buy even at 30 or 40% off the original price. It was only a temporary anomaly that you wouldn't lose on this hobby. I guess normality has returned.
And here we are. Not approaching a crash, but in one.
Seems that an ever diminishing number of people on here are buying and selling amongst a smaller and smaller group which will eventually just go pop leaving many people with overpriced machines that no one will buy even at 30 or 40% off the original price. It was only a temporary anomaly that you wouldn't lose on this hobby. I guess normality has returned.
Is it greater than ever though?
There was a time when DMD Sterns were £4k new and then £2-£3k on the used market not that long after. That's 50-75% of the original price.
I'm not seeing people taking a 50% loss on modern Sterns, I've seen a few people recently in the sales threads getting angry because they didn't think they should have to take a > £1000 hit on selling their machine used
Your correct.
technically it's around the same percentage
People are thinking wrongly In 2007 I could buy a first class stamp for 32p, it's now £1.65. unfortunately the prices prior to COVID early 2010 appear significantly cheaper the reality they weren't as everything else was cheaper. I remember seeing a fully mint restored creature in 2012 for £4k and thinking that's alot, now it's a starter pin
The real issue that confusing most is the myth that pins made money and you could sell for what you paid, this only happened if you came into the hobby 2018/2019 and only during the COVID bubble, it was exaggerated if people bought older machines 2014/2017 as they suddenly could make a fair profit.
Also the middle age factor hit with middle aged people suddenly wanting an Adams etc. It's no difference to previous generations, star wars, matchbox, hot wheels, Chippendale furniture, each paying a premium for a shortish period I would bet the house absolutely no one in 25 years time is going to pay £10k for a star wars toy, they will become almost worthless.
If I had sold my collection during Covid, I would be a millionaire 
There are large numbers of unsold machines in the sales section of the site, because people still think they are worth covid prices. When they reach normal prices, I will buy them
I'm not wrong saying they are overpriced, else they would actually sell
Do you reckon the guy on ebay trying to get £7k for his Bad Cats thinks that one day Marcus Rashford will be randomly browsing ebay for a cat themed pinball machine and will just simply have to have it
There are large numbers of unsold machines in the sales section of the site, because people still think they are worth covid prices. When they reach normal prices, I will buy them
I'm not wrong saying they are overpriced, else they would actually sell
Do you reckon the guy on ebay trying to get £7k for his Bad Cats thinks that one day Marcus Rashford will be randomly browsing ebay for a cat themed pinball machine and will just simply have to have it
Some aren't selling due to lack of spare money floating around. Deals are also being done hidden away from the flame throwers. There always factors. It does depend on the machine, I personally don't think a couple that haven't sold are overpriced, it's just things take longer now than the 30 seconds they did before.If I had sold my collection during Covid, I would be a millionaire
There are large numbers of unsold machines in the sales section of the site, because people still think they are worth covid prices. When they reach normal prices, I will buy them
I'm not wrong saying they are overpriced, else they would actually sell
Do you reckon the guy on ebay trying to get £7k for his Bad Cats thinks that one day Marcus Rashford will be randomly browsing ebay for a cat themed pinball machine and will just simply have to have it
Yes there are overpriced machines, there always have been. Still one man's price is another man's pain
If I had sold my collection during Covid, I would be a millionaire
There are large numbers of unsold machines in the sales section of the site, because people still think they are worth covid prices. When they reach normal prices, I will buy them
I'm not wrong saying they are overpriced, else they would actually sell
Do you reckon the guy on ebay trying to get £7k for his Bad Cats thinks that one day Marcus Rashford will be randomly browsing ebay for a cat themed pinball machine and will just simply have to have it
Who knows what things are worth now. I don’t think anything on there is particularly overpriced, but then the market says overwise.
Not really such thing as "overpriced".... however something is only ever worth what someone else is willing to pay!!
That's the definition of overpriced no?
An item priced higher than anyone is willing to pay?
I'm talking machines that have been for sale 6months plus. I've even tried to make sensible offers on some and been rejected
An item priced higher than anyone is willing to pay?
I'm talking machines that have been for sale 6months plus. I've even tried to make sensible offers on some and been rejected