Pinball info
Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Pinball prices : Toy story the pin that’s about to cost us all!
- Thread starter Silverpaolo
- Start date
^^^ Sorry couldn’t resist, UKVAC I’m my experience not same as this place.
Anyway, remember when looking at purchasing my 1st pin, which was NIB.
I thought holy moly, they are expensive.
When trying to justify the expenditure:
- IP
- Licensing
- Coders
- Electro Mechanical Engineering Design
- Artist
- Import / Distro / Retailer / Delivery costs
- BoM
- Warranty
I thought, fair enough.. took the plunge.
First pin was an IMDN pro for £6500.
Now, that was 2018….
Looking at the prices now.
IMO, it’s pants pulling down time.
But like a coke head, you either detox or feed the habit and reap the whirlwind….
Some mornings I wake up and think of reasons not to sell the lot
Anyway, remember when looking at purchasing my 1st pin, which was NIB.
I thought holy moly, they are expensive.
When trying to justify the expenditure:
- IP
- Licensing
- Coders
- Electro Mechanical Engineering Design
- Artist
- Import / Distro / Retailer / Delivery costs
- BoM
- Warranty
I thought, fair enough.. took the plunge.
First pin was an IMDN pro for £6500.
Now, that was 2018….
Looking at the prices now.
IMO, it’s pants pulling down time.
But like a coke head, you either detox or feed the habit and reap the whirlwind….
Some mornings I wake up and think of reasons not to sell the lot
D
Deleted member 2463
I think people forget that pinball machines aren't really home devices meant be by bought by Joe Public - they are meant to be money making devices on location. back in the day - a NIB TAF was out of the price range for most folks.
Personally speaking - If I had a place like tilt within 10 minutes of me I'd probably have one maybe two games.
Pinball isn't about to crash and prices aren't about to drop massively - right now I'd say they have +not+ reached their peak.
You can do two things. Like it or lump it.
One thing though; when you come to sell a game you paid £5K for two years ago that's you are going to sell for £7K just remember that before you bore the **** out of us with your whines about prices. So many folks on this forum (and indeed this thread) moaning about prices who have enjoyed the price increase when they sold something.
Personally speaking - If I had a place like tilt within 10 minutes of me I'd probably have one maybe two games.
Pinball isn't about to crash and prices aren't about to drop massively - right now I'd say they have +not+ reached their peak.
You can do two things. Like it or lump it.
One thing though; when you come to sell a game you paid £5K for two years ago that's you are going to sell for £7K just remember that before you bore the **** out of us with your whines about prices. So many folks on this forum (and indeed this thread) moaning about prices who have enjoyed the price increase when they sold something.
A decade ago pinball was a cheaper because it was pretty much dead, nobody really wanted them and the only manufacturer had nearly gone bust.
In some ways its less risk now, the games were cheaper in the past but there was a risk that that £800 bargain would be worth less than firewood when you got bored so hardly a risk free purchase.
With its increase in popularity, pins have got more expensive, but we also have a great range of fantastic new games with A+ licences along with people putting games on location again, so its not all bad.
In some ways its less risk now, the games were cheaper in the past but there was a risk that that £800 bargain would be worth less than firewood when you got bored so hardly a risk free purchase.
With its increase in popularity, pins have got more expensive, but we also have a great range of fantastic new games with A+ licences along with people putting games on location again, so its not all bad.
We should be grateful we have this problem. I remember in the early 2000 it was almost impossible to play machines in the wild and with stern being the last manufacture left, with little interest from the wider public, I generally thought they might also go bust. Now we have several manufacturers and some attempts to create new ones, although some have turned out dodgy. This price increase is a by product manufacturing costs and demand. It's depressing, but not as depressing as pinball manufacturers going bust. How i wished I'd bought all those cheap £500 in the early 2000, but unfortunately had no where to store them let alone find room in the shared rented London homes
remember they where £500 for a reason, no one wanted them! Also Personally i think it will take around 5 years to start seeing cheaper second hand ones again, once operators start refreshing there ones. It's great to start seeing them in bars again, similar to vinyl in Sainsbury's I sight I thought lost forever 
Toy story is a triple A title, the licencing cost alone will be a fortune, Disney are the master of monetizing there IP. The cost of even doing this will filter down to the NItB. I'm guessing guns and roses is a little different as slash loves pinball so he probably just wanted a machine for himself to play
. The demand for known IP has bound to increase the cost of the machines. Also IP holders have now wised up to the worth, where in the 90's maybe not so much. There seems little demand for original themed games, it's a shame but I'm kinda guilty of this Houdini and October fest I wouldn't buy, although they might be actually very good. Imagine trying to launch a fish tails today, I doubt it would sell many. In the 80's 90's console and home gaming was still in its infancy so you couldn't get the arcade experience at home. Which meant a lot of floor space at theme parks, bars even nightclubs where demand was high so they could risk, unknown themes 
Precisely that.Sorry Neil, I condensed the quote down but that's really it in a nutshell.
I can see in the very near future where there may be a group within the forum who just have a gentlemen's agreement not to profit off one another.
Of course it's everyone's prerogative to sell something they own for whatever they can get but that really should preclude them from buying from someone in a community type sale.
I see a massive blurring of the lines between ebay and the forum now.
You either believe it to be a free market and if you make a couple of grand from a forum member then no problem.
Or. . . you're in it for the hobby and make your money from your day job and happy to pass a machine on for what you paid plus improvements/costs.
I'd just like to know which camp someone is in when I move a machine on. I don't know if there is a way of looking after each other better and insulating the people selling older pins for non-profit from those who are happy to flip for a healthy margin?
Clearly the forum offers so much more than just selling pins. We chat, get tips, exchange ideas, arrange meetings, help each other with technical advice etc. However if there is just as much likelihood of getting fleeced 'Rossco' style or overcharged and massively profited from then there's probably a need for a forum within a forum (or some sort of Judean People's Front).
Fair play to Davey for the FT, he's clearly poured hours of labour into that. Also Neil for the very reasonably priced STTNG recently and the LOTR last year actually (also the BOP was very reasonable but can't remember who sold it). Clearly not everyone is milking the system as is evident but since the debacle with the quickly flipped Spiderman It's become more prevalent.
I hate licensed themes, not just in pinball but the whole world. its just another way for the rich to skin the rest. Sure we have no choice in a lot of things, especially if we want them, but just think how your money trickles up to very wealthy folk for no good reason. The young kid who saves his spending money to buy his favorite football players replica shirt - £x? of that goes to that very rich player - he doesn't really need the kids money but he damn well takes it. Quite a few others along the way also take a bite out of your cash - they're all wealthier than you probably. Much of the license holders are organizations owned by the very wealthy.
In pinball maybe it was ok when the license was cheap for the manufacturer, but now it's not as we see by some of the pricing on certain Pins - eg The Beatles.
In pinball maybe it was ok when the license was cheap for the manufacturer, but now it's not as we see by some of the pricing on certain Pins - eg The Beatles.
Best post of the year so far
Sorry Neil, I condensed the quote down but that's really it in a nutshell.
I can see in the very near future where there may be a group within the forum who just have a gentlemen's agreement not to profit off one another.
Of course it's everyone's prerogative to sell something they own for whatever they can get but that really should preclude them from buying from someone in a community type sale.
I see a massive blurring of the lines between ebay and the forum now.
You either believe it to be a free market and if you make a couple of grand from a forum member then no problem.
Or. . . you're in it for the hobby and make your money from your day job and happy to pass a machine on for what you paid plus improvements/costs.
I'd just like to know which camp someone is in when I move a machine on. I don't know if there is a way of looking after each other better and insulating the people selling older pins for non-profit from those who are happy to flip for a healthy margin?
Clearly the forum offers so much more than just selling pins. We chat, get tips, exchange ideas, arrange meetings, help each other with technical advice etc. However if there is just as much likelihood of getting fleeced 'Rossco' style or overcharged and massively profited from then there's probably a need for a forum within a forum (or some sort of Judean People's Front).
Fair play to Davey for the FT, he's clearly poured hours of labour into that. Also Neil for the very reasonably priced STTNG recently and the LOTR last year actually (also the BOP was very reasonable but can't remember who sold it). Clearly not everyone is milking the system as is evident but since the debacle with the quickly flipped Spiderman It's become more prevalent.
Along with neil’s earlier
So here is my take
Neil is correct can’t believe I am saying this if you are a regular nib buyer like neil and myself why would you sell for same or under value so every time you buy your next nib it costs you 2k more nib buyers take the risk that you may take a loss and in most cases pre pandemic you where probably about 1k-1.5k on a pro and over 2k on premium or le
In 2007 when Spiderman came out retail was £3600 I bought mine ex op but mint a year later from pinball heaven for 2k so a big decrease and if you bought an Indy jones demead a lemon you would be very lucky to get back £1500 for a low play huo one
It would be nice for people to sell with minimal cost or what they payed for it but it will never happen as we have seen on here several time when people have done that and then a week later the buyer has stuck a grand on it and sold it on
Davies Fishtales was a bargain and I suspect he made a loss with all the new parts alone but the cost of doing a super mint pin is so expensive and most group members just don’t want to pay the money I very rarely sell any of my top end restoration s on here
Another factor is that I am a business and I have to make money
I do have a good customer base that I supply pins to at good prices with the agreement I will get them back when they sell them jp le last month I sold to a regular customer for £8500
I know in 6 months time I will sell him something else and get that back for below what he paid for it it’s just a good old honest agreement but when it does eventually leave my customer circle then i will sell it for its value at the time
E bay still throws a few surprises up the Wh20 before Christmas went for £3200 a group member on here I believe sold it what a bargain for someone
Bm66 before Christmas £7500 with all the toys which I bought but funny thing is the guy got lots of **** take offers by group members then they moan why they didn’t get it when £7500 was a fair price
As long as NIB prices keep going up then used prices will inevitably follow.
OP
OP
Silverpaolo
Site Supporter
Agreed and nothing ever comes down in this world why take less when people will pay more
Toy story is a big IP, I have watched the films with the kids over the years and they are great, but is it not the wrong era to be a big hit with the demographic that buys these things?
I mean, anyone 40+ is too old to have enjoyed the films growing up, unless I'm missing something and there's tones of grown men really into Toy Story.
I mean, anyone 40+ is too old to have enjoyed the films growing up, unless I'm missing something and there's tones of grown men really into Toy Story.
OP
OP
Silverpaolo
Site Supporter
Think to be fair toy story reaches across the ages certainly wouldn’t say it’s just for kids etc
I'd agree with that. I've watched with the kids and can even remember the song. Crikey, I even purchased myself a Buzz
I'm 47 but thoroughly bought into the characters, the story and their personalities. Some of it is genius particularly the Barbie & Ken dynamic.
Don't forget their (JJP) target customer base is a bunch of big kids who collect expensive toys.
As can be seen bellow even the magic of Toy Story more than permeates into the mindset of grown blokes
Yeah I get what your saying, we have enjoyed watching them as a family, they are very good.
But to drop 12-14k on a pin based around the films, I just don't have that connection like BTTF, Wonka etc, they tweak the nostalgia in a way Toy Story just doesn't and are loved by kids too.
We loved the films here when the kids were young, bought all the merch.
Wife even said you gotta get the pin, I moved the conversation on real quick!
Wife even said you gotta get the pin, I moved the conversation on real quick!
Still saving for my first pin and I get that means my opinion is especially uninformed...
I find it hard to blame someone, say, for buying a pin from a forum member, getting a couple of years of fun out of it and then reselling for a couple of grand extra. Because the next pin that person buys would have had the same uplift as they've "profited" from - ergo unless you are "cashing out" of pinball, any profit you make is just going into paying the similarly increased price of your next pin, surely?
(RE: Toy Story as a theme - I am in the perfect age bracket to have a strong connection - but personally have since gone off the IP based on a mediocre third and fourth film, in my opinion. There is potential for some quite fun toys though...)
I find it hard to blame someone, say, for buying a pin from a forum member, getting a couple of years of fun out of it and then reselling for a couple of grand extra. Because the next pin that person buys would have had the same uplift as they've "profited" from - ergo unless you are "cashing out" of pinball, any profit you make is just going into paying the similarly increased price of your next pin, surely?
(RE: Toy Story as a theme - I am in the perfect age bracket to have a strong connection - but personally have since gone off the IP based on a mediocre third and fourth film, in my opinion. There is potential for some quite fun toys though...)
My dad is in his 70s and he's more interested in a Toy Story pin that most others released over the past five or so years. He loves the movies, as do I.
This dominant predator lives and on my desk. Love me some Toy Story
Last edited:
So, are we saying Toy Story will be a massive seller, and sell out quickly all versions?
D
Deleted member 2463
well its all relative. In order to reduce prices, costs have to reduce, that means Joe punter who is screwing **** together - how many of us have accepted pay cut?
Neil.
OP
OP
Silverpaolo
Site Supporter
Without a doubt it is , some are saying they might even do a woody edition and a buzz edition … get saving people it’s going to be one of them pins that like it or. It is going to be wonderful … I’ve already put my order in with phil I think if you wait till it’s officially announced you’ll be too late
D
Deleted member 2463
I would predict two versions - one CE and one LE - they might do a SE (standard) but given the history of that on other games don''t know why they would waste their time. The CE will sell out because there are enough JJP crazies but the LE will always be available until they stop making it of course, and given the LE vs CE on GNR and the fact CE's had a 6 (?) month wait only a total nutter would go down the CE route.
i’m doing my bit for the community - graciously stepping aside to allow someone else to buy one instead of me. 
Thought I'd go early on this one
D
Deleted member 2463
+1 I took one for the team on GNR, some other sucka's turn!i’m doing my bit for the community - graciously stepping aside to allow someone else to buy one instead of me.
D
Deleted member 2463
does anyone know what assets JJP have on this?
So they won't have Tom Hank's voice and hopefully they've paid his brother to do the voice overs ? What about music - will it be like Wonka with no freaking Candyman? "You don't have a friend in me because I was too tight to buy the rights to the music?" If they don't have Randy it will be a ****show of epic proportions.
TIm Allen is crucial also, the rest they can probably get away with paying students with bad crack habits a few dollars.
(how important Randy is - see below
So they won't have Tom Hank's voice and hopefully they've paid his brother to do the voice overs ? What about music - will it be like Wonka with no freaking Candyman? "You don't have a friend in me because I was too tight to buy the rights to the music?" If they don't have Randy it will be a ****show of epic proportions.
TIm Allen is crucial also, the rest they can probably get away with paying students with bad crack habits a few dollars.
(how important Randy is - see below
OP
OP
Silverpaolo
Site Supporter
I’m that nutter neil
anyways don’t forget stern have their own bunch of crazies that buy all the le’s up don’t they @Neil McRae 
OP
OP
Silverpaolo
Site Supporter
Either way I’m on for a ce people should do what’s best for them and take what people say on here with a pinch of salt if you did take notice you’d never buy anything 
and then there’s the people who splash £14-15k on a fully refurbed TAF or $15k on a pimped up 1980’s Bally SS. Each to their own it’s what makes this pinball world go around.