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Pinball prices : Toy story the pin that’s about to cost us all!

We all want to play the latest pins and we can pontificate all we want. But when Bond, Toy Story , Jaws or whatever get released we'll all have our noses pressed up to the window and if we have money in the bank we'll buy the machines.

Fortunately there is a slight difference to the classic car groups. In pinball we share and enjoy each others machines. I'm sure there is not a free for all where anyone can drive Tristan's E-Type Jag whilst everyone does doughnuts in Crispin's 1960's Aston at the classic car convention.

Maybe we just need to box bit smarter and loan machines amongst each other rather than people doubling-up on every title. It was amazing to go to Flipout and play games like Godzilla, TNA, Lebowski etc. Theses are Titles which are expensive and hard to acquire but due to the generosity of others we can still play them.

A bigger issue than the NIB is the Bally Williams stuff going for £5k plus when they're not in the best of condition. Anything getting towards 6K should be pristine and the stuff more expensive that that should be better than when it left the factory. To see players condition machines changing hands for silly money is the real hobby killer because these would normally be the entry level machines.

I know that there are a couple of people on here looking to purchase their first pin on a budget and it must be quite demotivating for them.

The older machine prices are making the NIB look like the better option at the moment.
 
Paul said:
👍 Have done HK Disney.. Japan is on my list... But way down as Japan in general is rather pricy (And if i didnt take my 21 year old who still desparately wants to be a Manga Artist i would never hear the end of it!


And me! Looking forwards to hitting Velociraptor when i'm next there for HHN 2022.... if we make it!
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My wife is from HK and still has family there so before the pandemic we would visit fairly regularly. I really like HK Disney and it’s worth a visit for Mystic Manor alone, but if you miss how WDW used to be please try to get out to Tokyo at some point, I guarantee you’ll love it! I was pricing it up in early 2020 (ha!) and it was coming out cheaper than a similar WDW trip…

I also can’t wait to get on Velocicoaster and we were so sad to miss HHN last year. We’re also hoping to make it out for this years event, if you’re there at the same time drop me a line and I’ll buy you a beer or three!

Gonzo said:
Maybe we just need to box bit smarter and loan machines amongst each other rather than people doubling-up on every title.
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I couldn’t agree with this sentiment more. Unfortunately I haven’t really be able to trade / loan for the last few years as getting games in and out where we currently live means taking backboxes off and it’s all just a proper hassle - and understandably lots of people don’t want to do that to their valuable machines - but once we’ve got the upcoming move out of the way and that’s no longer an issue I’ll def be up for some temporary trades with known members.

Perhaps we could organise a google sheet where members can list games they have for trades / games they’re interested in / location etc.
 
JustLikeMe said:
I’ll def be up for some temporary trades with known members.

Perhaps we could organise a google sheet where members can list games they have for trades / games they’re interested in / location etc.
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I think this is an excellent idea and would hopefully also bring a bit of balance back to the force/community. It's hard to insulate ourselves from ebay & Rossco fiasco's but we can at least get a group of known people that look after one another.

There's nothing quite like having a game in your own house for a month or two to help learn the rules. It's probably quite a smart way to keep up with the new titles and enable everyone to get excited about new releases too. Tim recently offered to lend me his WCS which was jolly good of him and I currently have Johns Ghostbusters whilst he has my Deadpool . . . . . it's certainly the way to go particularly when supply is outstripping demand.
 
I'm up for being involved in loan swaps. I haven't sold a game yet and don't know if I could.
Swapping for a few months would mean I get to enjoy other pins that I'd probably not buy or can't buy and help me see if I'd miss any of mine😜

Hoping to do some swaps when the house is finished. It's too much grief ATM as I have to remove backboxes move lots to get anything in or out.
 
Personally, and maybe it’s just me, but there is far too much emphasis on the new machines. Once you “get out of the rat race” so to speak and just ignore all the noise and hype, and instead look to the very rich and varied pool of all the other games that exist and are out there, you realise there are literally 1,000’s of games to play, ok many are “samey” but so are the modern ones compared against each other; In any era of games there is the whole range, the good, bad, ugly, There are 1000’s of machines you’ve never played. Cut your cloth accordingly and buy what your budget can afford. As pointed out above, you don’t even need to own them to play them. The hype created is a false view of pinball as a whole. As soon as the new machine is announced, the last new one fades quickly into the pool of has-beens. The manufacturers HAVE to churn out game after game to survive. We don’t have to buy every one though. They are picking off a wide variety of themes, film, music. they realise they’re not all going to be massive sellers, they’re filling in some niche markets like rush, if you ain’t into star wars then mando means nothing. I am convinced a load of these titles will become tomorrows dogs like <insert the name of an older cwappy pin you’ve played>, very few will be timeless classics. I am not against new machines. I bought R&M NIB cos i really love the theme and the timing was right for me. I’m a massive beatles fan and zep too but i’ve not bothered getting either as the price of beatles was too high and zep wasn’t possible cos my house was(is) full, and anyway, i’m in no rush (no pun intended), i’ll get round to owning them one day, i’ve never even seen a beatles in the flesh, the day i finally play it will be a good day for me. In the meantime i’m enjoying my journey back in time finding bally ss’s and bringing them back to a good condition, it’s a fad or a phase which may last forever, or i may move onto something else in the future, but one thing i know, it’s kept me away from the NIB trap for sure. In 40 years time maybe a pinhead will be collecting and restoring classic sterns from the 2020’s and ignoring the hype of the 2060’s latest offerings….
Calm down, take your time with pinball and enjoy whatever machines you do have access to and buy what suits your budget.
 
JustLikeMe said:
I couldn’t agree with this sentiment more. Unfortunately I haven’t really be able to trade / loan for the last few years as getting games in and out where we currently live means taking backboxes off and it’s all just a proper hassle - and understandably lots of people don’t want to do that to their valuable machines - but once we’ve got the upcoming move out of the way and that’s no longer an issue I’ll def be up for some temporary trades with known members.

Perhaps we could organise a google sheet where members can list games they have for trades / games they’re interested in / location etc.
Click to expand...

We have one...

Machines for loan / on loan. Always Updated!

Send me a PM
www.pinballinfo.com www.pinballinfo.com
 
Buy, don’t buy, play on location or visit someone with a pin you want to play. People need to chill, it’s only pinball.
If you are loaded then buy them all, if not then go to Neil’s😂😎

Like my daughter priced up Disney Paris for a weekend yesterday at £2500, it was a don’t buy😂
Last time I went to Orlando it was $2 for a pound, happy days.
 
It’s no secret stern where putting up prices in January rush le up too it’s got some special leds apparently
When bm66 came out the le was the first 10k pin and everyone said that’s it 10k is my limit and it only sold 4 in the uk roll on now and Godzilla at over 10k was instantly sold out and you are now paying 10k for premium which so far is the best selling premium for some time at ph so definitely no let up in buyers
But personally I think we are running in to another 2008 crash worldwide government’s have printed so much money particularly in USA the federal government ran out of money in December and had to have there debt cap removed now over 2 trillion dollars in debt
China is screwed lots of there real estate companies going bankrupt the biggest evergrade uk and us banks have billions invested in this all there bonds which where triple a are now de listed
Back in the uk massive money printing through covid absolutely ridiculous bank lending people spending borrowed money they don’t have hence the massive inflation interest rates going up energy going up massively even more in April
Many people have little or no savings as it seems like a live for today not tomorrow attitude among younger people and as soon as the monthly out going increase by 20% they are finished
 
CHRIS B PINBALLS said:
It’s no secret stern where putting up prices in January rush le up too it’s got some special leds apparently
When bm66 came out the le was the first 10k pin and everyone said that’s it 10k is my limit and it only sold 4 in the uk roll on now and Godzilla at over 10k was instantly sold out and you are now paying 10k for premium which so far is the best selling premium for some time at ph so definitely no let up in buyers
But personally I think we are running in to another 2008 crash worldwide government’s have printed so much money particularly in USA the federal government ran out of money in December and had to have there debt cap removed now over 2 trillion dollars in debt
China is screwed lots of there real estate companies going bankrupt the biggest evergrade uk and us banks have billions invested in this all there bonds which where triple a are now de listed
Back in the uk massive money printing through covid absolutely ridiculous bank lending people spending borrowed money they don’t have hence the massive inflation interest rates going up energy going up massively even more in April
Many people have little or no savings as it seems like a live for today not tomorrow attitude among younger people and as soon as the monthly out going increase by 20% they are finished
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2008 also came to mind on what type of an event we would need to make pin prices collapse and force people to swap pins for mortgage payments and food
 
Sacrilege I know but I might bail on the hobby tbh. It's been fun but I've got too much other stuff I want to spend my money and time on. It's not a certainty or anything and there has to be a possibility I'll randomly buy another NIB but the price increase even in the few years since I got involved is staggering. My rather mint 1300 quid Flintstones was an amazing starter pin and it's a real shame the newer guys don't have such options.
 
huggers said:
Sacrilege I know but I might bail on the hobby tbh. It's been fun but I've got too much other stuff I want to spend my money and time on. It's not a certainty or anything and there has to be a possibility I'll randomly buy another NIB but the price increase even in the few years since I got involved is staggering. My rather mint 1300 quid Flintstones was an amazing starter pin and it's a real shame the newer guys don't have such options.
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Same here, I'll sell my Stranger Things, keep my VPin and get back into Console/PC gaming, then see if I get a strong enough itch to buy another Pin. At most I only play a few games a week.
 
At present, punters are prepared to buy games before they are finished for the price of a decent second hand car. The fervour in the market is sustained by the manufacturers making limited editions generating FOMO in those able to afford the new games. As long as there are people willing to pay silly prices for NIB LE games the manufacturers will continue in this strategy.

In the long term this is unsustainable because there are virtually no games on site where young kids go so the games will accumulate in a few rich folk's games rooms and there will be a dwindling group of diehard fans that have the money and space for games.

How many people here buy NIB games regularly? I suspect it is ten or so and of those perhaps one or two are really active. If they stop buying for whatever reason the market here will see a big change, especially if they sell off games.

Just my take on things.

David
 
I agree with Alan's point about there being great games out there in the pinball back catalogue:

Flash Gordon
QuickSilver
Nine Ball
Fathom
Alien Starr
Alien Poker
HGT
Pinball Champ 82
Indy 500
Spiderman
StarGazer
Stars
Medusa
Vector


and many many more

Neil.
 
I actually wouldn't recommend buying a WPC game to anyone unless I knew they were technically competent (which rules many folks out here LOL) - especially TAF (forgetting the fact its a turd). TAF because early ones are built like SS and they don't have the nice pivot system for working on the game. I'd recommend an early Stern or SS game over a WPC game. The Stern games I've got at the club are the most played games in the club and they just keep on going. I've had a node board failure on GoT and thats about it other than the odd part break. TAF is one of the most played WPC games but its also one of the games that seems to have the most problems. My Indy 500 and Matt's AFM also get alot of plays but both of these games were given extensive bullet proofing before going into the club.

Talk to any operator and the only game they will put on site is typically a Stern because they know that the game will work without any issues and collect cash.

WPC games are the most complex in mechs and their old 90's bleeding edge electronics - whilst crazies like Alan think are good from my POV you spend all your time fiddling with them or wondering why when you hit both flippers the game resets. Of _all_ the electronic games we have at flip out by a _MILE_ WPC are the most unreliable and require the most work. Thats not to say other games don't require attention, Most SS games usually need power work I tend to swap out all the boards for weebly boards on my SS games as it allows newer code on them (yes new code on a 42 year old pinball machine!) . Zicaria (sp?) tend to have tons of issues with their display boards and the plastics are made of the same plastic you get Gilette Mach 2 razors in and when it breaks as it does you can't get replacements unfortunately.
 
Pricing is a very dark and very precise art.

Why does lego go up but not meccano ?

A few factors are driving pricing...

1. Pinball has become more fashionable
2. Home entertainment has come into its own under lockdowns
3. Major money printing by governments has driven up the nominal prices of all assets - even used cars
4. Supply chain disruptions forcing up costs of new machines and altering value perceptions

Anyone's guess where prices will go next.

I would like to see them fall. I think 700 quid for a scrappy fish tales is about right but those days are long gone.

Many "antiques" follow an age curve. Things become valuable when 40 to 60 year olds buy stuff they remember from their formative years (ie teenage to low 20s). When us lot start to die I suspect the prices will come down- like clock prices have.

Lots of 80s stuff has gone turbo - hot hatches, fast fords...... there are very few buyers of pre war cars and when petrol gets hard to find I suspect that regular 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s classic car prices (not lamborghinis) will tumble too
 
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The watch market has gone mental as well. Rolex Submariner Kermit for like 6 grand in 2017, now more like 15 grand. It'll be interesting to see whether it all collapses
 
The market has changed. Right now I am in a privileged position to be able to afford a couple of pinballs. I am not buying at the moment because I cannot justify it. I love pinball but to me a new machine is just not worth £9-13k.
It's too much and does not represent value for money on any scale. I look at what goes into a pinball and I shudder at the price. It doesn't help that they (on the whole) are pretty hit and miss on the build quality. If they were stunning works of art with amazing engineering and high quality parts then I could maybe feel more comfortable. Pinballs were designed with just a four year arcade lifespan; and that is how they still build them. Penny pinching components, shoddy quality and poor QA is the norm.
The old argument is "well they have always been like that". True enough but the market is not the same and the quality and value for money should be reflected in the prices being charged.

[Edit] Where is the entry level now? It used to be a few hundred pounds and some hard work to do a 'restoration' of the basics (new rubbers, flipper rebuild, clean, wax, new balls etc). Now it is out of reach to all but a few.
 
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I’ve been saving for the last 2 years for my first pin. Recently I managed to finally raise enough funds to buy a nice second hand pin. I nearly pulled the trigger on a couple for sale on here, but hesitated.
I started to think, in 5 years am I likely to get my money back, if there is a crash, maybe not, to me, it seems the worst time possible to buy my first pin.
So I’ve decided against it, I’ve used some of that money to buy a high end v pin vr system, 250 tables to play, and can add more as I feel. It’s not the real thing, but as close as you can get.
I can also visit any of the public pinball arcades to get my steel ball fix.
Yeah, unfortunately the wrong time for me to own a pin, but hey ho, it is what it is.
 
Doggard said:
I’ve been saving for the last 2 years for my first pin. Recently I managed to finally raise enough funds to buy a nice second hand pin. I nearly pulled the trigger on a couple for sale on here, but hesitated.
I started to think, in 5 years am I likely to get my money back, if there is a crash, maybe not, to me, it seems the worst time possible to buy my first pin.
So I’ve decided against it, I’ve used some of that money to buy a high end v pin vr system, 250 tables to play, and can add more as I feel. It’s not the real thing, but as close as you can get.
I can also visit any of the public pinball arcades to get my steel ball fix.
Yeah, unfortunately the wrong time for me to own a pin, but hey ho, it is what it is.
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@Doggard I totally agree and understand. March 2021 took the plunge myself. I'm sure I bought at the top end of the market and it worries me about the amount of money invested, but thought about selling late last year and faced such a backlash at home I decided against it. Looks like they are all staying for a bit longer. If you find a decent title at a good price it will hold it's value better than a poor game with an inflated price.

I love virtual pinball, actually building another at the moment. It's not the same, but it is still excellent fun. It's the only way I'll get to play White Water or DE JP anytime soon ;)
 
Doggard said:
I’ve been saving for the last 2 years for my first pin. Recently I managed to finally raise enough funds to buy a nice second hand pin. I nearly pulled the trigger on a couple for sale on here, but hesitated.
I started to think, in 5 years am I likely to get my money back, if there is a crash, maybe not, to me, it seems the worst time possible to buy my first pin.
So I’ve decided against it, I’ve used some of that money to buy a high end v pin vr system, 250 tables to play, and can add more as I feel. It’s not the real thing, but as close as you can get.
I can also visit any of the public pinball arcades to get my steel ball fix.
Yeah, unfortunately the wrong time for me to own a pin, but hey ho, it is what it is.
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Totally agree, I’m new to the scene and love the community on here, it’s very similar to Ukvac and has the kindest and most helpful folk you could wish to come across.
But the prices are crazy late 80’s to present.
I got very lucky with my machine which to be fair I didn’t realise at the time I bought it.
I bought it for a price I think a layman would gauge about right for what a pinball consists of, it’s actual physical value if you like.
These new tables simply don’t represent that in my eyes. £10k-£13k! Premium,LE.
Yeah they look and play amazing and I’d love one but unless you are wealthy and have that kind of disposable cash they are far,far out of the reach of ordinary men/women.
I personally don’t think this is sustainable.
I would dearly love a LOTR (I only have space for two) but will I ever own one, I really couldn’t say.
 
I think if anyone starting out is going to buy a machine then one from a known member on here is a good idea.
Some games have gone for some really 'sensible' prices recently in comparison with the utter 'cashing in' going on elsewhere. Machines on here usually have a known history which helps. I think it is safe enough to invest in something provided you don't pay over the odds for it (like everything else in life).
Put a wanted advert on and see what happens, even if it takes a while you might find the right machine for the right price.
 
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