What's new
By:
Pinball info

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

JJP Toy Story 4

roadshow16 said:
But to suggest you have any idea of what it takes to design a pinball machine to the level of Pat Lawlor, or better, with the constraints of one of the biggest corporations in the world dictating what you can and can't do, is a little naiive shall we say
Click to expand...
Specifically, I’m sure I could design a better pin *for kids*. I’m sure it’s a great pin for adults, although it does potentially look disappointing for long-term JJP fans given the number of toys, price and lack of original Toy Story nostalgia.

Matt Vince said:
What I don't get is why they have aimed the game at kids but not set the game up to suit them? A third flipper is almost never used by youngsters, the rules are not obvious enough and multiball appears to be difficult to find. My youngest loves GOTG. 2 flippers, hit Groot, put it in his mouth, repeat, multiball!!. He also loves Metallica (doesn't know they are a band) but hit sparky, repeat, get multiball!!

Also, if aiming a game at kids, add three more zeroes to the scoring!!! They get that sense of achievement with a big score (deserved or not) with JJP's low scoring model, even a good game seems like a bad one to a child when they can get more points on a skill shot of a stern (they don't understand the difference!!)

This feels like a game aimed at kids with adult rules and features just dumbed down a little. I may well enjoy it (if the flipper strength has improved) but can't help thinking this machine will miss the spot with kids. Maybe a 'Junior' version of code with higher scoring and clear, easy multiball would help with that.
Click to expand...
What @Matt Vince says here. Pat Lawlor on the video says it’s aimed at kids, but designed to be enjoyable for adult players.

But it doesn’t do the things young kids like, e.g. have a huge bash toy in the centre of the playfield (like Groot), make it easy to get multiball by hitting the bash toy (like Godzilla or Metallica or mini Deadpool).

He’s also right that kids won’t see one. It needed to be priced like a Stern Pro to get it into somewhere like Adventure Inside in Southend.
 
Last edited:
It could be a sandpit or new pin, kids will play with it.
It’s a bit comical the amount of peeps who buy a pin under the radar saying it’s for the kids, mainly to get the Mrs on board..lol
Funny thing is, Pinsiders will fall in love when they start playing TS4, “it’s awesome.”
Then the PFs will start chipping and the torches, pitchforks and pillow cases will be out.
Ahh… the ups and downs of pinball.
 
It wasn't that long ago (but clearly before some people have joined the hobby) that Stern (there were no other manufacturers) being ridiculed for having a big basic bash toy in most of their machines which got you a multiball - now new games are missing a bash toy?

I think it highly unlikely that not one designer at JJP has no children, or grandkids, or has done extensive market research. It's not just one guy designing a machine with no input from numerous other people!

As for
VeeMonroe said:
average little kid aged 4-8 is either not reading yet, not a confident reader
Click to expand...
All of my nieces and nephews could read by 7-8 AND enjoyed reading. It doesn't take them long to be able to grasp the basics of pinball, rather than chimp-flipping, and with a little patience and guidance it can be explained as to how to aim, further followed by what shots they need to do to get a multiball, or do another 'cool thing'. It's not as if they are walking in to an arcade on their own to play a machine.
 
Wayne J said:
All of my nieces and nephews could read by 7-8 AND enjoyed reading. It doesn't take them long to be able to grasp the basics of pinball, rather than chimp-flipping, and with a little patience and guidance it can be explained as to how to aim, further followed by what shots they need to do to get a multiball, or do another 'cool thing'. It's not as if they are walking in to an arcade on their own to play a machine.
Click to expand...
Yes, but the video didn't say they wanted to appeal to the kids of pinball players. They said they wanted to get kids into pinball.

The target market is, therefore, the kids who are playing the 'shooting video-game dinosaurs with water' games in your average seaside arcade. Those kids don't necessarily have a grown-up who can show them how to aim and what shots they need to make. The pin needs to grab them on first play - despite the chimp flipping.

Even if they have an adult who can show them shots, it takes about half an hour to teach a kid the basics of pinball - and that's with no distractions. I speak from experience here - I recently taught our neighbours' nine and six year olds, and my older son's four year old playdate. The smaller ones (aged 4-6) tend to grasp the general idea, but then get overexcited and start hammering both flippers again.

It's also not about enjoying reading. It's about having about 60 things to read on the screen while simultaneously playing pinball, which requires either fast reactions or to be able to cradle, and a lot of confidence reading. The 'not reading' specifically refers to four year olds, who are capable of playing pinball, but not necessarily reading text on the screen.
 
My 6 year old son favourite pinball machine is The Hobbit. When he was 5, he knew every rule and could explain the complete rule set showing you at what to look on the upper screen and lower screen. If a kid is very interested in a game, he/she will ask about what they have to do. For example he asked me to explain every rule on a few pins but didn’t care about them at all except the hobbit. Not to say that he watched many many times every gameplay on YouTube about the Hobbit to understand even better.

So, after seeing this, I would say that if the kid is really into it, and not interested only in bashing a few toys, at the age of 5 they can learn every rule and concentrate on the screens and gameplay in the same time… just my 2 cents.

Again, if and only if the kid is really into the game… Vee, probably your little one likes them but till now none of them Wowed him so much to make him want to learn everything about the game. My kid had access to 70 pins and he picked only one. Without The Hobbit in the collection probably he wouldn’t be interested so much in any of them. So probably it’s all about “The One” The one that they really really like…

And about large or small scoring (JJP Vs AFM) he took a while to understand. After many explanations now it seems that he understands the he can’t compare the scoring on The Hobbit Vs AFM. Now he looks at it like this, 1 mil on The Hobbit is about 3.5-4.5 bil on AFM.
 
Last edited:
Sven Normansson said:
Kids don't buy pinball machines, kids don't frequent arcades (unless with parent) . If you're buying a 12 grand plus toy for your kids, can I come live with you. We had to take it in turns for a christmas present!
Click to expand...
Kids frequent arcades with parents. Arcade owners buy or lease pins that they think will make money. Most kids in an arcade don't have pinball-playing parents.

If a kid walks up to a pin based off a kid-friendly theme, hammers the flippers and gets a light show/multiball, they'll put more money into the pin rather than into the 'shooting dinosaurs with a ball cannon' game.

I'd need to play it to be sure, but the layout doesn't hit the easy basics for 'getting the attention of non-pinball-playing kids' and the price is all wrong. I may be wrong, as Pat Lawlor is a brilliant designer and may have really innovated here, but I don't see a large target market for this, that's all.
 
Hazard a guess the demographic for Toy Story is older basement dwelling nerd virgins still living with wealthy parents…. Lol
My Xmas in mid 70s was some overripe tangerines with loads of seeds.
Sorry…we also shared an action man minus a head + a second hand Tonka truck..
 
Last edited:
Marvello said:
It's designed for big kids i.e 30+ year old kids like most Pinball machines are.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but if I was going for that - I'd have done original Toy Story, totally stacked with toys and mechs, no pretence at making it child-friendly, and heavy on the nostalgia.
Hiltoncriss said:
My 6 year old son favourite pinball machine is The Hobbit. When he was 5, he knew every rule and could explain the complete rule set showing you at what to look on the upper screen and lower screen. If a kid is very interested in a game, he/she will ask about what they have to do. For example he asked me to explain every rule on a few pins but didn’t care about them at all except the hobbit. Not to say that he watched many many times every gameplay on YouTube about the Hobbit to understand even better.
Click to expand...
My 5-year-old son has an encyclopaedic knowledge of the rules of LoTR and Godzilla, and provides 'helpful' 'strategy' advice to us when we're playing 🤨 He came 25 out of 53 players, mostly adults, on the GZ Pro in Pinball Republic in the London League (much less well overall).

But, I'm fully aware he's a total weirdo (for non-pinball-related reasons), and most kids aren't like him ;) :)
 
Sako-TRG said:
Hazard a guess the demographic for Toy Story is older basement dwelling nerd virgins still living with wealthy parents.
My Xmas in mid 70s was some overripe tangerines with loads of seeds.
Sorry…we also shared an action man minus a head + a second hand Tonka truck..
Click to expand...
That’s not really a valid argument though as it strays into the “I was born in a pothole“ Pythonesque routine. Look at the machines you own now - the boys done good😉Ps I was born in the 50’s and I always wondered where the body of my Action Man went! PPS currently own 6 machine‘s (EM&SS) ‘cos I done good too.
 
C'mon guys, we all know that "it's for the kids" is just a handy excuse for grandpa to justify his purchase in front of the rest of the family :rolleyes: Good work from JJP's marketing department I say. Someone sees that promo video with the Dad jumping at his daughter's jackpot and think they can just buy this moment in their life - for a mere 12k...
 
Fubar said:
C'mon guys, we all know that "it's for the kids" is just a handy excuse for grandpa to justify his purchase in front of the rest of the family :rolleyes: Good work from JJP's marketing department I say. Someone sees that promo video with the Dad jumping at his daughter's jackpot and think they can just buy this moment in their life - for a mere 12k...
Click to expand...
:)))) Good post! 👍🏻
 
Let’s be honest here
Very few children are ever going to experience this machine
Regardless of what jjp are saying in the promo vids
I’ve no idea what amusement arcades are like over the pond
But as we all know, here in the uk, you very rarely find pins. And if you do, they are always sterns, or older Bally/ Williams
You never see Jjp machines
No arcade is going to site one of these, because of the child friendly theme. Especially over a whack a croc machine that spews out yellow tickets all day, and even more so at 12k.
A pins sole purpose is no longer to take 50p”s and quarters from your pocket, they sit in private collections, craft beer establishments.
The only children getting to experience this, have wealthy parents. And for many fathers out there, this pin gives them the opportunity to justify a pin to their wife, because it’s toy story, and “ the whole family can play it “
 
VeeMonroe said:
Specifically, I’m sure I could design a better pin *for kids*.
Click to expand...
Right, you could design a better pin *for kids* than the most successful pinball designer of all time....

VeeMonroe said:
They said they wanted to get kids into pinball.
Click to expand...
Nope......they didn't. He said that he was aware, because of the theme that it wasnt just pinball players that would be playing the game, but kids also. So it needs to be accessible. At no point does he say that the target market is kids! He just wants them to have fun playing it, as well as the obviously core target market, us!

VeeMonroe said:
Yeah, but if I was going for that - I'd have done original Toy Story, totally stacked with toys and mechs, no pretence at making it child-friendly, and heavy on the nostalgia.
Click to expand...
You would have done that would you.

Where as Pat I'm sure specifically said, no no I don't want free reign of the whole Toy Story franchise, just give me TS4 only. And I won't take the unlimited budget thanks to stack with loads of toys and mechs, I'll have a limited BOM that I need to stick to religiously
 
I don't disagree that this theme is a great excuse for adults to buy and say 'the kids/grandkids will love it'. My issue is that unless those kids are determined to learn the game (i.e. already into pinball) the initial experience won't engage them to want to play more!

I hope I'm wrong as a new generation of players would keep this hobby going passed our funerals. I just feel like this could be a missed opportunity.
 
Doggard said:
But as we all know, here in the uk, you very rarely find pins. And if you do, they are always sterns, or older Bally/ Williams
Click to expand...

Well, last time I was at The Pinball Office (Sunday) they had 4 JJP pins lined up beside other Stern and Bally/Williams, Spooky and American Pinball.
PS They should be ashamed because they dare to be different…
 
Last edited:
Doggard said:
I’ve no idea what amusement arcades are like over the pond
Click to expand...
Incredible, as far as the few I've been too:

-Last pay to play arcade I visited had a mix of a dozen decent 90s B/Ws classics, mid 00s Sterns.

The Unlimited time 11am-2am 7 days a week $20 entry
Free to play arcade which had some pinball:

LE Rush, LE TMNT, LE GZ, LE Mando
O/G AFM, CGC Royal MM, CGC LE MB
JJP LE Wonka
Prem TWD, Prem Deadpool, Prem Star Wars, Prem B66
LE JP, LE ST, LE EHOH, LE GB, LE Avengers

o_O
I will be going back to that location in a couple of months, I imagine they may have acquired a TS4 if we get no further release in that time.
 
VeeMonroe said:
Specifically, I’m sure I could design a better pin *for kids*. I’m sure it’s a great pin for adults, although it does potentially look disappointing for long-term JJP fans given the number of toys, price and lack of original Toy Story nostalgia.


What @Matt Vince says here. Pat Lawlor on the video says it’s aimed at kids, but designed to be enjoyable for adult players.

But it doesn’t do the things young kids like, e.g. have a huge bash toy in the centre of the playfield (like Groot), make it easy to get multiball by hitting the bash toy (like Godzilla or Metallica or mini Deadpool).

He’s also right that kids won’t see one. It needed to be priced like a Stern Pro to get it into somewhere like Adventure Inside in Southend.
Click to expand...
1655289572548.jpeg
 
Hiltoncriss said:
Well, last time I was at The Pinball Office (Sunday) they had 4 JJP pins lined up beside other Stern and Bally/Williams, Spooky and American Pinball.
PS They should be ashamed because they dare to be different…
Click to expand...
Yours is lovely personal collection, that you very generously let the public enjoy at weekends.
I was talking about seaside amusement arcades, bowling alleys and “ fun zones “
 
Doggard said:
Yours is lovely personal collection, that you very generously let the public enjoy at weekends.
I was talking about seaside amusement arcades, bowling alleys and “ fun zones “
Click to expand...
This.
Pooman2084 said:
View attachment 173093
Click to expand...
Genuinely, I don't think you need anywhere within a light year of the talent of Pat Lawlor to observe that small children in seaside arcades like games with moving cars and dinosaurs and to design, for example, a colourful "Monsters -vs- Monster Trucks" pin with a giant T-Rex mech in the middle of the playfield that ate balls to start multi-ball.

I'm sure it would be total crap, and hated by actual pinball players, but I'm also sure - if the graphic design, music and lighting were good - it would pick up lots of passing trade from little kids visiting the beach.

I'm not saying Pat Lawlor isn't an amazing pinball designer, or that I'm doubtless a crap pinball designer. I'm just saying that he didn't, in fact, have small new-to-pinball children in an arcade setting prominently in mind when he designed this... and, given the theme, it seems a wasted opportunity. As others have said, I think JJP are selling the *dream* of a family experience - not the reality, if that makes sense :)
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom