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is the market unusually sleepy?

VeeMonroe said:
Also, the infamous El Pinbotto:

VeeMonroe

No Longer Available Thread 'PRICE DROP! El PinBotto (Cirsa PinBot) £1250 ONO'

The Spanish version of PinBot made under license from Williams in 1987.

PinBot big.jpg


This pin has a long-ish history on the forum. Alan J bought it as a project and did a mini shop-log on it (https://www.pinballinfo.com/community/threads/pinbot-mini-shop-log.48203/) before selling it in January (https://www.pinballinfo.com/community/threads/pinbot-£1600-ono.51823/) to Crewey, who did the following work on it:

-Added New chrome legs
-Coin door powder coated (rougher than I hoped but better than previously)
-Xpin display LED
-Comet LED's inserts and GI / some area of the...
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I don’t class that as a 90s DMD game, it’s alphanumeric.
 
As a newbie I love these threads. I find it wild how people are confused that someone isn't chomping at the pit to throw 7k or more at a pinball machine in a generational financial crisis. Lots of for sale listings of people beside themselves with confusion and what almost appears anger on why people are not lining up to pay 12k for their Medieval Madness or 9k for a ropey Addams Family. Have you been outside? I was desperate to find a way into this hobby for what I could afford (under 2k) and happened to luck upon a working 'Class of 81' Bally in that range. Don't get me wrong I would love a Jaws but come on, the prices are insane.

I think people get lost in this Pinball world and forget how things are right now. If you started collecting a while back 90s/early 00s you probably have some good pinball equity. You can trade and sell and make 5/6 times what you paid back then and get what you want. But to most coming into the hobby now it must be one and done. I would love a row of pins but it is never happening. Maybe if I am lucky I will get 2.

To my knowledge Stern mainly sells to the US market at a price much lower to our own. America is also the size of Europe. So I don't think they really care about the slowdown of the UK market. It must make up a fraction of their sales.

I do think pinball over here is struggling in terms of sales, as I see so many on this site, I also don't see it improving. It's a great time to be a buyer for sure. Also if you are selling a pin with a bad reputation then It is especially bad times.
 
Antray84 said:
As a newbie I love these threads. I find it wild how people are confused that someone isn't chomping at the pit to throw 7k or more at a pinball machine in a generational financial crisis. Lots of for sale listings of people beside themselves with confusion and what almost appears anger on why people are not lining up to pay 12k for their Medieval Madness or 9k for a ropey Addams Family. Have you been outside? I was desperate to find a way into this hobby for what I could afford (under 2k) and happened to luck upon a working 'Class of 81' Bally in that range. Don't get me wrong I would love a Jaws but come on, the prices are insane.

I think people get lost in this Pinball world and forget how things are right now. If you started collecting a while back 90s/early 00s you probably have some good pinball equity. You can trade and sell and make 5/6 times what you paid back then and get what you want. But to most coming into the hobby now it must be one and done. I would love a row of pins but it is never happening. Maybe if I am lucky I will get 2.

To my knowledge Stern mainly sells to the US market at a price much lower to our own. America is also the size of Europe. So I don't think they really care about the slowdown of the UK market. It must make up a fraction of their sales.

I do think pinball over here is struggling in terms of sales, as I see so many on this site, I also don't see it improving. It's a great time to be a buyer for sure. Also if you are selling a pin with a bad reputation then It is especially bad times.
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You make some good points, but the wealth range of people on here is vast, so what some people consider a feasible spend, is pocket money to other people. But that is wealth, I think the other thing to consider is value.

Would a multi- millionaire pay £10 for a Mars bar just because they are wealthy and can afford one, no, as that is bad value. And I think that is it on here now, the machines appear to be bad value to almost everyone.

I have also noticed the quality of some of the for sale posts are really poor. £12k for a game and they stick up 3 pictures…..
 
SteadyP said:
You’re not wrong- all the comments or DM interest I’ve had in my game is from others who’ve already played / appreciate it.
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I want it for different reason, but can't do it at the moment, even though it's a buyers market I can't spend jack atm either.

Never played it but I used to sink a lot of hours into poker and pot limit omaha, I got bored of Texas a long time ago, so is does suit me in that respect but I want it because it's one of the cheapest sterns you'll find and I only really need it for a reference game.
 
Genuinely puzzled @dave- what’s a reference game? Are you needing it for a build you’re doing or something?
 
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SteadyP said:
Genuinely puzzled @dave- what’s a reference game? Are you needing it for a build you’re doing or something?
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Yeah adjusted a game to match a standard stern because some parts seemed easier to hold of for stern.

One example I wanted to get an idea how deep some games were at the back of the playfield. Just getting a rough size was bit of a pain, something like that with a tape measure would be much easier, but mainly for cabinet.
 
Ah sounds interesting Dave- good luck with your project 👍🏻

On another note, responding to some earlier posts- in terms of the market I think there’s always more limited demand for entry level Stern games and your better titles / themes are going to get snapped up quick if they’re priced right (BTDK springs to mind at £3k not long ago) so I don’t think the market is that bad and it’s similar to what I remember seeing in 2019 when I was lurking before pinflation distorted the market prices. I wouldn’t say the games currently for sale have a bad reputation and I don’t equate a lower pinside rating with a game necessarily being poor - unless we’re looking right at the bottom end (Bugs Bunny and the Home pin titles- less said the better). I think some games like mine get overlooked by nostalgia hunters entering the hobby who want a Fish Tales or remember playing something based on a 90’s movie. I get that and it’s exciting having something you remember or a theme that draw you in. Like @Antray84 - I’m just thankful that I can afford a game and Stern made a god awful backglass for WPT so I didn’t pay big £. (I personally think Stern should reskin its layout with Pokémon or another popular card game and it would be well received).
 
Cheers, need it! That is another option to put proc in it and yes that game is probably worth a retheme. At that price is cheaper than from scratch, by miles really and time.
 
There are about 30 current UK games on eBay listed at 5k plus. But look at completed UK auctions listed on eBay which received more than 1 bid !!! There were two £5k auctions in the past three months ....

Queen LE (what a hideous backglass) £7.3k
Elvira Premium £7.2k

That's it, then you are below £5k

The slowdown is "the only way is up" sellers living in denial.


Same thing happening with Classic Cars

 
DRD said:
There are about 30 current UK games on eBay listed at 5k plus. But look at completed UK auctions listed on eBay which received more than 1 bid !!! There were two £5k auctions in the past three months ....

Queen LE (what a hideous backglass) £7.3k
Elvira Premium £7.2k

That's it, then you are below £5k

The slowdown is "the only way is up" sellers living in denial.


Same thing happening with Classic Cars

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A few observations over my coffee ….

Most of those 5k+ listings are either top dollar NIB titles , or are games at a wild price that they would never have sold for even during The Frenzy …. BOP 4500 ?! RCT 5k !?
Quite a few from that Czech seller .

There are very few auctions. Mostly BIN listings. 90s classics and System 11 thin on the ground .

Noticeable that desirable 90s titles actually listed still shifted - a Creech at 4k , Williams IJ 7500 (offer) .

Other recent completed auctions ,or more reasonable BIN prices , sold at prices down from The Frenzy but not all wildly so imo. Can’t always see Offer accepted price.

Atlantis <1995 (offer)
Hurricane 1909
DE Simpsons 2800
DE Star Trek <3300 (offer)
Star Wars Episode 1 3495
Sega Star Wars 2802
LW3 2000
World Poker Tour 2138
SF2 2950, another at 1550
WH20 (rough, no topper) 2350
Judge Dredd 3104
Getaway 2250
Devil Riders non working 1000

A fair few decent EMs sold 600 - 1000
 
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How much are SAM era middle tier games worth then if the market is flat? I know they’re rare as unicorn 💩 as people like to hold onto them- but I’m getting a bit perplexed by asking prices. Would like a BTDK, POTC, Avatar but are they worth twice as much money as what @Sgt GrizZ is quoting from eBay for WPT? I’m inclined to go for a 24 or RCT if that’s the case- can afford to put in some more £ but not £2k for a similar era, albeit more desirable game. Do we still have a thread for what’s a game worth? If anyone who’s informed and has moved on a similar title recently wants dm me with some advice I’m happy to listen. Can’t see the point in trying to sell if there’s no chance of being able replace. Thanks 🙏
 
Sgt GrizZ said:
Noticeable that desirable 90s titles actually listed still shifted - a Creech at 4k , Williams IJ 7500 (offer) .
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Id say that IJ was the nicest one thats came on the market for ages. The seller said he’d owned it for over 20 years so its been One Owner/HOME USE (edited 😝) for 2/3 of its life. Plus it was sent away for a service just before he sold it so everything worked and was clean. He got multiple people offering on it too.
 
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So this is a story that really pi$$ed me off about "HUO"

I had a really worn out Nightmare on Elm Street pin, that had been operated up until the day I bought it and had over a million on the coin counter.

It had major playfield wear (which was touched up, but it was obviously not perfect)

Based on the condition, I sold it very cheap to someone "in the community" and they literally stuck it on ebay the day after at double the price and advertised it as "Home Use Only"

I had never before seen such dishonesty from a "collector"

I wish I knew who bought it and what they thought about the "HUO" ? 🤬
 
Prices, eh?

@johnwhitfield told me yesterday he once bought four games in one go - Flintstones, Lethal Weapon 3, Whitewater, and High Speed 2 - from an angry divorcing pinwife.

How much would that lot cost now?
How much did you pay, John?

Is anyone on here going through marital difficulties? Can we be friends?
 
The fact that the difference is average salaries in the UK and US, compared to the selling price of a NIB simply means that there are less people with the funds to purchase NIB. This means that the second hand market doesn't have the same flow of machines through.
It's probably getting to the point now where it is just as cheap to purchase a machine in the US and have it shipped over yourself, even after paying for the conversion for Stern machines.
 

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Wayne J said:
It's probably getting to the point now where it is just as cheap to purchase a machine in the US and have it shipped over yourself, even after paying for the conversion for Stern machines.
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It's already cheaper... Frequency conversion is only £50. It's the hassle of shipping & customs which is the biggest barrier.
 
Paul said:
Isnt there a guy on UKVAC where you ship an item to his storage in the USA and he adds to his container that comes over every few months?? @Alpha1 ??
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If you're talking about the numbered containers that were coming over. 2/3 a year. Those were stopped for good last year I believe. He did one last run. The reason being that it was a madness with the cost.
 
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