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Where have all the pins gone?

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Guilty as charged m’lord i’m 5 over!
However in my defence all of these are in need of a makeover or issues sorting.
Then most (not all) will be sold / traded here or through the very Secretive Masonic Pinball Club 🤪

BSD - DrDude - Fathom - SMB - CFTBL

ps. If anyone can give me the handshake for the aforementioned secret club above LMK 😉
 
VeeMonroe said:
If you've noticed, I've never - at any point - criticised or questioned the many people who loan games, donate games to Pinfest, open up their houses for tournaments, found pinball clubs, donate their time to help run clubs, run events, repair machines and restore games for sale :) My heartfelt thanks to those people. I wish I, personally, could do more 🥰 😍

Neither have I said no one has a right to keep collections to themselves.

What I have said is that, despite people having a right to do whatever they want with pins, up to and including setting them on fire, I have... well... feels about people who - for example - detach the backbox off 100+ games and stack them in their flat. They're legally entitled to do this and, as a political liberal, should I become prime minister, I wouldn't make a law stopping them. But, I do think it's not the most pro-social thing you can do when, for example, you could reconnect the backboxes and lend them to PBR, or a community centre, or just sell ninety pins, set up the remaining ten, and invite the neighbour's kids around for a game :)

The original question was where the pins have gone? Due to my experience looking on Pinball Owners, I had a sense that there might be a bunch of people who passively keep huge numbers of games to themselves - and who have been removing pins from circulation. Other people don't think these people exist. So, maybe it is just growth in the hobby and Williams Amusements selling a limited number of older pins to families with one or two games 🤷‍♂️
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I know you appreciate what many do for the hobby Vee. . .

I just don't think its as sad and melancholy as you suggested. There's not a paucity of games .... Plenty are available to loan, buy and borrow and more are getting restored every month.

I also don't have a problem with people buying games for their collections and or tombstoning them.

Plenty to go around. That's it really.
 
The landscape has changed, even in the short time i’ve been into the hobby.

Prices have risen. This affects every buyer and every seller more emotionally than when prices were cheaper.

More people after a limited supply of old games.

Dwindling supply of project games.

More games in barcades/sited.

More games in private homes due to the rise in popularity of “man-cave” spaces.

We are in a price dip & correction phase following a false high caused by c-19, this has caused price confusion with sellers asking too much and buyers expecting too little. This will take a few more months to play out. Many are sat watching from the sidelines until it’s over.

Delays in delivery of ordered games.
Some poor recent NIB offerings.
Expectation of announcement of desired titles. All of these mean people sitting on games they will sell when said games appear or are announced.
 
A few of the games originally mentioned are WPC95 games with small production runs. All are out of production . Coupled with a quadrupling of owners in the last few years means they are harder and harder to find. Remakes attract VAT, so don’t necessarily lower the price like they do in the US. Not that CGC make that many anyway.
There has always been hoarders, collectors, sellers and flippers. With more hoarders and collectors than 5+ years ago, means there’s less A list old stock for everyone else.
I assume Brexit is probably playing its part. The second hand market on your doorstep just got more expensive. Are fewer of these old games getting imported?
 
Gonzo said:
I just don't think its as sad and melancholy as you suggested. There's not a paucity of games .... Plenty are available to loan, buy and borrow and more are getting restored every month.

I also don't have a problem with people buying games for their collections and or tombstoning them.

Plenty to go around. That's it really.
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I know :) But, honestly, I’m on a pinball forum where a bunch of dudes are boasting about how little they play….pinball… 😄

It’s like a guys on a climbing forum trying to wind up another user/poster by taking pictures of their ropes and crampons, bragging how they can’t/don’t walk further than the bathroom stairs… :suspect:

Sven Normansson said:
Only potc set up but not played. According to this twisted logic I am the problem.
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Just play the damn thing. Go on, I dare you! 💋😈 When you get some friends/family together for New Years’ Eve, maybe crank on some Jack Sparrow and try for MIDNIGHT MATCHPLAY MADNESS! What do you have to lose (except, maybe… your Elvira drinks table!)? :cool:
 
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VeeMonroe said:
I know :) But, honestly, I’m on a pinball forum where a bunch of dudes are boasting about how little they play….pinball… 😄

It’s like a guys on a climbing forum trying to wind up another user/poster by taking pictures of their ropes and crampons, bragging how they can’t/don’t walk further than the bathroom stairs… :suspect:


Just play the damn thing. Go on, I dare you! 💋😈 When you get some friends/family together for New Years’ Eve, maybe crank on some Jack Sparrow and try for MIDNIGHT MATCHPLAY MADNESS! What do you have to lose (except, maybe… your Elvira drinks table!)? :cool:
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You still don’t get it Vee and I don’t know if it’ll help you to try and explain or if it’s just feeding a troll.
 
Vee is not a troll, she isn’t trying to get a rise out of people but is trying to explain her view point in a verbose manner, without offence or insults. For debate as much as convincing people on her opinion.

@VeeMonroe, your rock climbing analogy fails as there is less second hand value in safety gear and an end of life date in kit. It would be the equivalent of buying the climbing route and then not letting others climb it. Which is far more extreme than buying a MM and not playing it but also not wanting to let it go.
 
Jib said:
I apologise to Vee if my comment was offensive but as she has herself in the past called herself a troll I didn’t feel it was mean.
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I don’t think you or anyone else is being offensive, but comments are starting to turn and people are getting ****ed off it seems.
I think the thread has run its course really.
 
In my opinion there is a difference between

‘here is how I enjoy the hobby and here is what I think should happen to tombstoned games’ and then people having a spirted debate about how they enjoy the hobby.

And

‘Here is how I enjoy the hobby and here is what I think should happen to tombstoned games. My opinion is right, if you think differently you are wrong, bad for the hobby and bad for society’

Someone may not mean to come across as the 2nd quote but if several people over several topics think that is how you come across maybe it’s time to change your approach.

I don’t care if @Gonzo ‘s favourite game is Deadpool because he takes the glass off, flicks little deadpools head sighs in contentment and thinks it’s better than a tight twanger, puts the glass back on and never plays it. Good for him, no harm to anyone else, enjoy life! (Sorry Kris 😂)

People are getting upset not because they have a different opinion on how pins should be enjoyed but because it is being suggested that they are wrong for how they enjoy them.
 
Jib said:
In my opinion there is a difference between

‘here is how I enjoy the hobby and here is what I think should happen to tombstoned games’ and then people having a spirted debate about how they enjoy the hobby.

And

‘Here is how I enjoy the hobby and here is what I think should happen to tombstoned games. My opinion is right, if you think differently you are wrong, bad for the hobby and bad for society’

Someone may not mean to come across as the 2nd quote but if several people over several topics think that is how you come across maybe it’s time to change your approach.

I don’t care if @Gonzo ‘s favourite game is Deadpool because he takes the glass off, flicks little deadpools head sighs in contentment and thinks it’s better than a tight twanger, puts the glass back on and never plays it. Good for him, no harm to anyone else, enjoy life! (Sorry Kris 😂)
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There is a definitely a difference - a single post, versus repeated contrarian replies to everyone who posts over the course of multiple days.

I obviously don't have to moderate this place, so my opinion is pretty much irrelevant, but it seems to me that the forum rules perhaps need revisiting. As an example, we've got a situation where Neil is banned for (at least with his first infringement in the ban process) what appeared to be just joking in questionable-taste - yes, some people were very vocal that they found that joke offensive, but many (most?!) members didn't. Then we have a situation like this thread, which is obviously highly irritating/off-putting to many long-standing members over a period of days (I don't see a single post agreeing with this contrarian postion Vee is pushing) running and running :hmm:
 
Interesting that people are calling for a thread to be closed.

If you find it boring/irritating then surely you just don’t read it? I suspect the longest running thread is probably the high score one. Given it’s unlikely to be very stimulating I just gloss over it.

Much as I disagree with Vee’s point of view she’s welcome to hold it.

It’s hardly the slanging match that used to go over at Pinside.
 
johnwhitfield said:
Interesting that people are calling for a thread to be closed.

If you find it boring/irritating then surely you just don’t read it? I suspect the longest running thread is probably the high score one. Given it’s unlikely to be very stimulating I just gloss over it.

Much as I disagree with Vee’s point of view she’s welcome to hold it.

It’s hardly the slanging match that used to go over at Pinside.
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I was about to post exactly the same thing, no one is being forced to read or post in this thread. Anyone getting irritated by it should go and find something more positive to do, like maybe playing your Pinball machines, you know, the ones you are hoarding and never play 😉.
 
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