Underpricing pins is harming the hobby

[AlanJ]

Decide what you want to buy - put out wanted ad, see if you can find one. If so barter a price with the seller. If not keep looking or buy something else.
Similarly, decide what you want to sell, put out a for sale ad, see if you can find a buyer. If you can and can agree a price sell it, if not then keep it or reduce your asking price.

The toxicity on here is all around the selling prices people get shot down for publishing - maybe part of the problem here is being forced to list a price? Ive never quite uderstood that, why not allow no price and "open to offers"?

 

[ianw]

Agree Wanted Ad is the best way to tempt people to sell

 

[MajesticPinball]

I think I should have put something like ‘the failure to keep up with pinflation is ruining the hobby’.

It’s not that I think pins *should* be more expensive. I think they’re too expensive, and this is bad, for all the reasons @johnwhitfield states above.

I think (a) problem is this expectation that higher prices price people out, but having a four-figure punt on a pin you’ve never played and haven’t seen except in a photo/video is fine provided you’ve met the seller, or someone else has. Or you’re willing to drop everything at a moment‘s notice to drive XXX miles to the seller’s house in a big van

I think the general consensus is that people tend to buy games they've had experience playing and they "want". Having an overpriced "punt" on a machine you've never played is a bit dumb.

Generally if you're looking for a specific machine the price will be higher. Posting a wanted advert for a specific game firstly draws attention of owners of that machine who probably don't want to sell it, but may be tempted. So to temp them more money is offered but that's okay because it's a grail game you desperately want.

If you put out a vague advert out for any pinball machine of any age or make, you'll get a better deal because you'll attract more people looking to sell whatever they have laying around taking up too much space.

Surely that's just logic?

 

[Lickashot]

You can have exclusive first refusal on any of my pins:
Iron Maiden (Pro) 11k
BK: SOR (Pro) 10k
Metallica (Pro) 9k
A:IQ (Pro) 12k
Elvira 30k

I'll take the lot, 72k in cash for you at Pinfest. Then I'll sell them the following year to a noobie for 100k.

 

[M4carp]

I’m more bothered by the day to day cost of living, pinball prices is what it is and a luxury.

They have always been too expensive even when I was buying them in the late 90’s I thought they cost too much.

Agree Wanted Ad is the best way to tempt people to sell

I contacted someone on here who was thinking of selling, wouldn’t give a price and asked me to make an offer. I said I couldn’t because the price varies so much from X to Y and after sending 2 more messages he blanked me. Says it all.

Pinball is irritating me lately with all the greed that is going on.

 

[David_Vi]

I think I should have put something like ‘the failure to keep up with pinflation is ruining the hobby’.

It’s not that I think pins *should* be more expensive. I think they’re too expensive, and this is bad, for all the reasons @johnwhitfield states above.

I think (a) problem is this expectation that higher prices price people out, but having a four-figure punt on a pin you’ve never played and haven’t seen except in a photo/video is fine provided you’ve met the seller, or someone else has. Or you’re willing to drop everything at a moment‘s notice to drive XXX miles to the seller’s house in a big van

As someone said, this is part of the hobby. You take a risk or you lose out (I think the risk is small on here)
I've not had any issues myself, exception is missing out on Greg's AFM last year by a few mins, but I have one now so it's fine.
All mine didn't require me driving in a van, I took the chance as I trusted the sellers and I arranged pickup.

You'd want a van and viewing if it wasn't on this forum. I'd not buy from elsewhere unless it was an extreme circumstances. Bk2k from Tobin was an exception, because he's a long-standing and trusted member of the community and had been vouched for many times since I joined the community.

In my opinion stuff here is sensibility priced and helps the community and newbies. Stuff outside tends to be Overpriced dramatically.
There's not many inbetweens (except maybe Tobin)

Personally I like this community for trying to keep prices sensible and keep pins in the community.

I'd be priced out of the hobby if it wasn't for that, and I know a few people who have said they're worried about being priced out of the hobby and that means they hold onto their games.

 

[Jmac]

The best piece of advice I’ve seen in this thread is to get to know people. Yes it will take time and feel frustrating initially as you feel like the new kid in school but I can honestly say 9/10 of the people I’ve met have been good eggs. We all started there. Don’t get me wrong there are some people that the only thing we have in common is pinball and I probably wouldn’t go for a few beers with but that’s fine we are all different. I now chat to 5/6 people I met through here very regularly and it usually has nothing to do with pinball but general life instead

Patience is also a key quality in this hobby. At the beginning I used to get very frustrated that I couldn’t just go out and buy the game I wanted. A long standing member advised me that almost all games come around for a reasonable price if you just wait and be ready. Have the money ready and if the pin is posted by a reputable member then jump on it. You’ll have to get your head around sending thousands of pounds to someone you’ve not met for something you’ve not seen but that situation has been the butt of many jokes on here over the years.

Basic economics is supply and demand. It is almost a perfect storm at the moment where there are more people in/joining the hobby who want pins but the supply of new machines from the manufacturers is very low to dilute the pool of games. There is also a large amount of pins that have been removed from the pool of pins within the pinball info community that used to regularly change hands. Some of these are now with collectors who have bought 20+ in past couple years but would rather tombstone than put them back on the market when out of room. Other games get bought on here go on to be sold on eBay to people not on here and will be never seen again. Other games get sold on to the retail businesses because they will offer more than you could get on here. Again these games are highly unlikely to find their way back onto this group. So overall we reap what we sow. I personally think the selling of pins on here is dying. Greed is one of the seven deadly sins - Thought process - I’ll sell outside the group for as much as possible and justify it because the buyer was happy so I haven’t tucked them up with something they will probably lose money on when reselling. Now when I buy a replacement I want it at traditional group price where we so called look after one another.

I don’t really sell on here anymore because I’ve been burnt a couple of times trying to keep a reasonably priced pin moving around the community only to have it pop up on eBay not long after for considerably more. Nowadays I’ll sell to one of my friends on here or long term loan it out to someone I trust and I’m ok with that

 

[JT.]

This thread has to be a wind up to get a rise.........

Also, have you heard of ‘long story short’? My University Thesis was shorter than the original post!

It uses a lot of words to fail to clearly explain what the actual issue is tbh. I think it's about it being hard for newbies to buy a pin, but it jumbles together so many other unrelated issues it's hard to tell. It's like it's been thought about entirely back to front - coming up with a solution to a problem first, then trying to brainstorm the problems which that solution might address. Net result is that it comes across as a totally incoherent argument to me - just a jumble of ideas.

Regardless, whatever the specific issue being targetted is, I'm pretty certain that actively increasing prices/valuations (rather than just letting the market dictate prices) won't be the logical solution.

 

[Bobbdobalina]

Decide what you want to buy - put out wanted ad, see if you can find one. If so barter a price with the seller. If not keep looking or buy something else.
Similarly, decide what you want to sell, put out a for sale ad, see if you can find a buyer. If you can and can agree a price sell it, if not then keep it or reduce your asking price.

The toxicity on here is all around the selling prices people get shot down for publishing - maybe part of the problem here is being forced to list a price? Ive never quite uderstood that, why not allow no price and "open to offers"?

Agree Wanted Ad is the best way to tempt people to sell

I 100% agree, it’s what I did when after lotr.
Had loads of input and good leads from helpful members.
Someone got in touch and we made a deal that was acceptable to both parties, picked it up had a nice chat and was great to meet the seller both walked away happy.

If I do ever move it on, I will 100% list it here or respond to a wanted add on here and hopefully the cycle continues.

 

[kev a]

I wouldn't be in the hobby if it wasn't for friendly pricing on here, so I'm very grateful for that, and when the time comes to move games on hopefully I will be in a position to return the favour.
But buying a first pin can be an intimidating prospect, good deals don't hang about and you need to commit quickly and sending large sums of money across the country to somebody you haven't met based on pics and a description is very counter intuitive.

It works, but I'm sure most of us have gotten stung online before (this and UKV are the only places I would consider buying this way)

After a while we get more confident fixing things and build trust with members on here so the risks lessen, but I can see why a newbie might be tempted to buy from a retailer, believing the higher price is worth the reassurance (however flimsy in reality) of warranty or pre sale checks.

Deals are out there, but people like me with lower budgets, need to be flexible on title and condition, everyone's after great deals, so you really need to make things easy for the seller, trust the description, don't ask for millions of pics, quibble about price or minor issues that may have not been picked up, don't ask them to hold it for weeks.... collect quickly, hire a van, take a mate to help load the game, assure them you wont be calling them if the game breaks down the next day, because if you don't, someone else will and you will probably miss out.

 

[Sgt GrizZ]

If it makes noobs feel any better ….In almost 20 years of owning pins this is without a doubt the worst and most frustrating time for buying/selling.
Not really looking that much at buying opportunities currently tbh. Just enjoying my current collection. Trying to invite more folk round to enjoy them also these days - and yes some people do enjoy Mick on A Stick before any smart **** pipes up

 

[Jay Walker]

Pros: Price. Usually decent photos and description.
Cons: Buyer has to make their mind up very quickly. There is an element of trust.

A bit of thread fatigue set in while reading. On seeing this, I thought it was about Stern's different pricing/equipment levels, Pro, Premium, etc.

 

[The seeker]

I want a Porsche 964 but since 2010 I’ve been priced out . Same difference it’s **** but that’s the way she goes

 

[VeeMonroe]

I wouldn't be in the hobby if it wasn't for friendly pricing on here, so I'm very grateful for that, and when the time comes to move games on hopefully I will be in a position to return the favour.

The problem is that no one actually benefits from friendly pricing if it's only available to existing collectors. Because you lose on the resale what you gained on the purchase... unless you're buying large numbers of pins and tombstoning them.

But buying a first pin can be an intimidating prospect, good deals don't hang about and you need to commit quickly and sending large sums of money across the country to somebody you haven't met based on pics and a description is very counter intuitive.

Deals are out there, but people like me with lower budgets, need to be flexible on title and condition, everyone's after great deals, so you really need to make things easy for the seller, trust the description, don't ask for millions of pics, quibble about price or minor issues that may have not been picked up, don't ask them to hold it for weeks.... collect quickly, hire a van, take a mate to help load the game, assure them you wont be calling them if the game breaks down the next day, because if you don't, someone else will and you will probably miss out.

Everyone seems to be agreeing that purchasing a pin at a 'reasonable' price requires you to send four-figure sums of money to people you don't know, hire a van (which can't be done at 24-hours notice unless you're already a ZipVan member) and rush across the country to pick it up, no questions asked. That is, as everyone points out, somewhat intimidating if you're not that familiar with pinball ownership, and not especially practical if you have young children and a full-time job!

The best piece of advice I’ve seen in this thread is to get to know people. Yes it will take time and feel frustrating initially as you feel like the new kid in school but I can honestly say 9/10 of the people I’ve met have been good eggs. We all started there. Don’t get me wrong there are some people that the only thing we have in common is pinball and I probably wouldn’t go for a few beers with but that’s fine we are all different. I now chat to 5/6 people I met through here very regularly and it usually has nothing to do with pinball but general life instead

Patience is also a key quality in this hobby. At the beginning I used to get very frustrated that I couldn’t just go out and buy the game I wanted. A long standing member advised me that almost all games come around for a reasonable price if you just wait and be ready. Have the money ready and if the pin is posted by a reputable member then jump on it. You’ll have to get your head around sending thousands of pounds to someone you’ve not met for something you’ve not seen but that situation has been the butt of many jokes on here over the years.

Basic economics is supply and demand. It is almost a perfect storm at the moment where there are more people in/joining the hobby who want pins but the supply of new machines from the manufacturers is very low to dilute the pool of games. There is also a large amount of pins that have been removed from the pool of pins within the pinball info community that used to regularly change hands. Some of these are now with collectors who have bought 20+ in past couple years but would rather tombstone than put them back on the market when out of room. Other games get bought on here go on to be sold on eBay to people not on here and will be never seen again. Other games get sold on to the retail businesses because they will offer more than you could get on here. Again these games are highly unlikely to find their way back onto this group. So overall we reap what we sow. I personally think the selling of pins on here is dying. Greed is one of the seven deadly sins - Thought process - I’ll sell outside the group for as much as possible and justify it because the buyer was happy so I haven’t tucked them up with something they will probably lose money on when reselling. Now when I buy a replacement I want it at traditional group price where we so called look after one another.

I don’t really sell on here anymore because I’ve been burnt a couple of times trying to keep a reasonably priced pin moving around the community only to have it pop up on eBay not long after for considerably more. Nowadays I’ll sell to one of my friends on here or long term loan it out to someone I trust and I’m ok with that

This is what I was struggling towards in my initial post, I think. I'm glad someone has admitted it and with beautiful clarity.

In summary (I appreciate this is a cruel summary and I apologise - it's not personal): "I am now largely a non-selling seller because greedy strangers buy pins on here at friendly prices and then sell them at the open market price. This is their fault for being bad people and not the fault of the pricing. But, it's okay, if you want to join the group of trusted people who can still source pins from me at friendly prices, rather than being an unknown n00b who has to rush across country with a mate in a van at 12 hours notice to buy a pin before multiple other people do, you just need to take the time to join our secret society. The Sun is Shining... but the Ice is Slippery".

This is literally the definition of differential pricing discriminating against newbies and, I'm sorry, it doesn't feel terribly fair

 

[Jib]

You’ve never sold something to a mate for less than it’s worth? Or sold something for less than it’s worth because it’s the easier option? Also you keep saying how things are hard to do on short notice with young children, that’s not just a pinball thing.

 

[Sgt GrizZ]

The problem is that no one actually benefits from friendly pricing if it's only available to existing collectors. Because you lose on the resale what you gained on the purchase... unless you're buying large numbers of pins and tombstoning them.



Everyone seems to be agreeing that purchasing a pin at a 'reasonable' price requires you to send four-figure sums of money to people you don't know, hire a van (which can't be done at 24-hours notice unless you're already a ZipVan member) and rush across the country to pick it up, no questions asked. That is, as everyone points out, somewhat intimidating if you're not that familiar with pinball ownership, and not especially practical if you have young children and a full-time job!


This is what I was struggling towards in my initial post, I think. I'm glad someone has admitted it and with beautiful clarity.

In summary (I appreciate this is a cruel summary and I apologise - it's not personal): "I am now largely a non-selling seller because greedy strangers buy pins on here at friendly prices and then sell them at the open market price. This is their fault for being bad people and not the fault of the pricing. But, it's okay, if you want to join the group of trusted people who can still source pins from me at friendly prices, rather than being an unknown n00b who has to rush across country with a mate in a van at 12 hours notice to buy a pin before multiple other people do, you just need to take the time to join our secret society. The Sun is Shining... but the Ice is Slippery".

This is literally the definition of differential pricing discriminating against newbies and, I'm sorry, it doesn't feel terribly fair

Sorry - your summary is making my head hurt
I’m out

 

[Andydn]

Everyone seems to be agreeing that purchasing a pin at a 'reasonable' price requires you to send four-figure sums of money to people you don't know, hire a van (which can't be done at 24-hours notice unless you're already a ZipVan member) and rush across the country to pick it up, no questions asked.

I don’t agree at all so stop generalising and making sweeping statements as if they apply to everyone!
You do realise that when I sell at pin to a friend for a good price I then have to pay another 2k (for example) on top of that cash to buy my next one sometimes - and I’m fine and happy with that. It’s not a magical secret circle where somehow we all sell and buy without spending or losing a penny!
You sound like a child saying ‘it’s not fair’ - you have acquired a nice collection of pins, enjoy them & sell them for whatever you want - that’s fair

 

[Fubar]

@VeeMonroe I think you're just venting because you're frustrated to have missed a bargain. Yeah people with kids and commitments are de facto discriminated against but that's just life for you. When your kids are grown up you can semi-retire, buy a van and hunt bargains as some people do today. Lots of us here have kids too and we don't make a fuss about it.

As it stands you have in the region of 20 grand (the annual salary of some people) spent on some of the best pinball machines out there; take a step back and enjoy what you have. Be patient and eventually an opportunity will present itself at the right price - it's not a very fluid market due to the relatively small number of goods.

Have you ever sold a pin btw? Before criticising sellers you might want to put yourself in their shoes a few times... And no, selling board games doesn't count

 

[JT.]

This is literally the definition of differential pricing discriminating against newbies and, I'm sorry, it doesn't feel terribly fair

It's literally not. To be considered differential pricing, one seller would have to offer the same pin on two or more markets at two or more different prices. And there's no discrimination, because the newbie, if they get their act together and buy from here (quickly, like everyone else) has an equal chance of winning a for sale advert. What jmac said is that they chose not to participate in the pinballinfo marketplace - that's not discrimination, it's simply their choice, based on whatever reasons they want.

 

[M4carp]

I have travelled everywhere in my van picking up pins, I found that more painful than paying.
Brighton, Blackpool, Devon, Norwich, North Wales, Scotland, Sunderland, all over the bloody place and not really for bargains.
I earned my pins

 

[Jib]

At worse starting this thread reads like ‘I’ve filled my collection, now I’m going to try and convince everyone they’re worth more money so when I sell I get more cash’

at best it’s a troll. GG

 

[steve brum]

Exactly. We all having ots of fun with four million bc bought off ebay this year running auction under £750.

Buy an EM, cheep as chips bargain hunters…

 

[VeeMonroe]

@VeeMonroe I think you're just venting because you're frustrated to have missed a bargain.

Actually, no.

I felt a bit frustrated when I wasn't being offered anything much, and I was watching other people getting quite upset sometimes on the Wanted/For Sale forums - often because they not getting responses to Wanted threads (the Godzilla thread that I got '@'d into is a real classic ), or because they were being flamed about pricing.

I also felt I was sent on a bit of a wild goose chase about the actual cost of sourcing a pin I wanted (rather than what long-term owners thought it was worth).

I've always been an outsider to every community to the point where it's become a Groucho Marx-esque self-fulfilling prophecy, and part of the privilege (if you can call it that) of that outsider status is that I can try to highlight groupthink, if I think I see it, and things I perceive to be unfair.

I guess I don't like seeing people upset The chap with the skill posts was especially upset, apparently It made me feel sad seeing that - it felt very toxic for a hobby community

At worse starting this thread reads like ‘I’ve filled my collection, now I’m going to try and convince everyone they’re worth more money so when I sell I get more cash’

I'm not planning to sell.

I just felt there was a problem and I wanted to flag it up. I realised it would be controversial, but I felt I had to highlight what I'd seen and experienced, and what I thought the problem might be.

I may be wrong, but - hopefully - it might provide some food for thought

 

[kev a]

The problem is that no one actually benefits from friendly pricing if it's only available to existing collectors. Because you lose on the resale what you gained on the purchase... unless you're buying large numbers of pins and tombstoning them.

I'm not so sure, regardless of potential sale price in 2/5/10 years time, plenty of us don't have big money to spend on games now and even for those that do, some would get more 'value' spending that cash outside of the hobby.

Everyone seems to be agreeing that purchasing a pin at a 'reasonable' price requires you to send four-figure sums of money to people you don't know, hire a van (which can't be done at 24-hours notice unless you're already a ZipVan member) and rush across the country to pick it up, no questions asked. That is, as everyone points out, somewhat intimidating if you're not that familiar with pinball ownership, and not especially practical if you have young children and a full-time job!

Being non mainland, there are a couple of pins recently I would 100% have taken if I was closer (1k Firepower, 1.6k Jack bot) but they we're great deals and at that price there will be a queue of people offering a hassle free purchase, where as I will need packing, waiting around, customs forms etc, just ain't gonna happen.

Sellers also have commitments, family, jobs etc, people are busy, if you want to buy pins, cars, motorbikes houses anything really, you have the choice of offering more cash than others, or saving the seller time making the deal as easy as possible.

 

[paul h]

The problem is that no one actually benefits from friendly pricing if it's only available to existing collectors. Because you lose on the resale what you gained on the purchase... unless you're buying large numbers of pins and tombstoning them.

I consider myself as having benefitted from "friendly pricing" on here, ESPECIALLY when I was new to the hobby, so clearly it is not only available to existing collectors. I have bought pins at a sensible price on here and then been able to sell them back on here quickly with no fuss. Anyone can buy the machines advertised on here as long as they don't expect special treatment when it comes to viewing, etc.

Everyone seems to be agreeing that purchasing a pin at a 'reasonable' price requires you to send four-figure sums of money to people you don't know, hire a van (which can't be done at 24-hours notice unless you're already a ZipVan member) and rush across the country to pick it up, no questions asked. That is, as everyone points out, somewhat intimidating if you're not that familiar with pinball ownership, and not especially practical if you have young children and a full-time job!

Not everyone is agreeing with this - I have never even picked up a pin in person, let alone had to hire a van.

See the machine you want, agree to pay the price, contact Martin to pick up machine, pay the money .... simple. Most sellers are happy with this arrangement. I can see that this requires a bit of trust on the part of the buyer (I was nervous when I sent £2k+ to a guy on here for my first pin), but once you have got over that mental hurdle, it is fairly painless.

In summary (I appreciate this is a cruel summary and I apologise - it's not personal): "I am now largely a non-selling seller because greedy strangers buy pins on here at friendly prices and then sell them at the open market price. This is their fault for being bad people and not the fault of the pricing. But, it's okay, if you want to join the group of trusted people who can still source pins from me at friendly prices, rather than being an unknown n00b who has to rush across country with a mate in a van at 12 hours notice to buy a pin before multiple other people do, you just need to take the time to join our secret society. The Sun is Shining... but the Ice is Slippery".

This is literally the definition of differential pricing discriminating against newbies and, I'm sorry, it doesn't feel terribly fair

I really don't see why you feel the need to complain about the way people trade machines on here. There is a place called eBay that facilitates the trade of pinball machines in exactly the way that you suggest.

Simply choose the purchase route you prefer.

 

[ChrisH]

If it makes noobs feel any better ….In almost 20 years of owning pins this is without a doubt the worst and most frustrating time for buying/selling.
Not really looking that much at buying opportunities currently tbh. Just enjoying my current collection. Trying to invite more folk round to enjoy them also these days - and yes some people do enjoy Mick on A Stick before any smart **** pipes up

Mick on a stick is a decent game, and Popeye's not bad either - Rather play either of those than Tron which I've never liked

I guess to a point buying pins is much more akin to buying a house these days, you need to start cheap and trade upwards but you do need the initial capital to get on the ladder, yes that initial outlay has gone up, but the chances are you're not going to take a huge bath on something unless you pay WAY over the odds for something.
The newbie danger is and always has been buying a basket case and/or paying way over the odds.
The key to getting into a hobby happily is to spend lots of time learning things, so don't buy a game right away - stick around for a few months, meet people, learn what the common failure points are, get a feel for the market and what you want and then take your time.
Sometimes I feel people are way to impulsive these days, if I'm getting into something that's going to take a chunk of money or require new skills I spend time learning and researching before spending money.

(Didn't research the angle of my staircase well enough for RFM though )

I've bought one game which I had for 2 weeks, but I've been in the hobby for 10+ years - so technically when it comes to buying games I'm a 'newbie', but no way I'm spending £3K on a Shadow, now or at any time in the future

 

[Jmac]

The problem is that no one actually benefits from friendly pricing if it's only available to existing collectors. Because you lose on the resale what you gained on the purchase... unless you're buying large numbers of pins and tombstoning them.



Everyone seems to be agreeing that purchasing a pin at a 'reasonable' price requires you to send four-figure sums of money to people you don't know, hire a van (which can't be done at 24-hours notice unless you're already a ZipVan member) and rush across the country to pick it up, no questions asked. That is, as everyone points out, somewhat intimidating if you're not that familiar with pinball ownership, and not especially practical if you have young children and a full-time job!


This is what I was struggling towards in my initial post, I think. I'm glad someone has admitted it and with beautiful clarity.

In summary (I appreciate this is a cruel summary and I apologise - it's not personal): "I am now largely a non-selling seller because greedy strangers buy pins on here at friendly prices and then sell them at the open market price. This is their fault for being bad people and not the fault of the pricing. But, it's okay, if you want to join the group of trusted people who can still source pins from me at friendly prices, rather than being an unknown n00b who has to rush across country with a mate in a van at 12 hours notice to buy a pin before multiple other people do, you just need to take the time to join our secret society. The Sun is Shining... but the Ice is Slippery".

This is literally the definition of differential pricing discriminating against newbies and, I'm sorry, it doesn't feel terribly fair

First off I don’t take it personally at all - this is a forum for discussion.
But your conclusion is rather crude. Essentially you have taken the bits that promote your narrative. Although what I have said is true from my experience you have completely missed the point that over the years I have got to know a core group of friends really well and we have a decent amount of pins between us so it makes sense to swap between each other, loan to each other and sell to each other. Of course pins do come and go outside this group of friends so it’s not the secret society you suggest. Recently I sold one of my pins to someone who put a wanted ad up because majority of friends had already had it. I sold it for what I considered a fair price to someone I hadn’t met before even though I probably could of got 1000/1500 more on eBay. We chatted, had a cup of tea - he was a good guy and we had a few things in common so will keep in contact going forward and who knows will probably do some buys/sales again in future. What you say is a secret society is nonsense - it’s more of a group of friends who talk and of course we all are friendly with other people on here that we have met or had dealings with in the past. ie I mention to someone I quite fancy a Dialed in at some point. Person b - I actually know X has one I’ll text him/her and see if they would consider selling it on. That person may not of even been thinking of selling but the seed is now sown and a potential deal might be done. So the key takeaway is get involved make friends help others out etc.
Pins will get sold/ swapped between friends for decent prices. That’s life I’m afraid and it’s not done to intentionally hurt or discriminate against newbies. I’ll give you an example (and I hope he doesn’t mind)
David’s glass shattered while removing and put up an ad to see if anyone has some spare on short notice. I do have some after one of Neil’s bulk buys so I message and say no problem you are only an hour away come and pick some up tonight after kids have gone to bed. David arrives we get on well and have a bit of a laugh and talk some pinball stories. I gave him a couple of sheets of glass and a mod I’m never gonna use and pack them into his car with a moving blanket I have in garage. We talk about our collections and I mention that I have an itch to scratch regarding black rose. David said he has never sold anything as he struggles to let go and Rosie was his first pin. I say if you ever move it on then let me know. Roll forward we have kept in touch via text about dogs, pinball and all manner of other stuff and David now needs space. So we do a deal for a good price on the basis that if I ever sell it I’ll give him first refusal.

A bigger problem to the lack of pinballs for sale on here is the what’s it worth thread. I’d estimate the vast majority of pins mention on there are sold before an advert even goes up by pm. That is a different scenario and is depriving people a fair chance at buying the pin unless you join the people that are straight in trying to do a deal via pm. That sale has used the forum for a sale all be it by a back door route. Not everyone will even know that pin was potentially coming up for sale because it’s mentioned in a thread that’s not for sales

Personally I think that thread should be renamed to ‘Fishing for the highest offer by pm’

 

[Jmac]

@Gonzo if you were looking for the next chinwag topic……

 

[Gonzo]

Well @Jmac summed most of it up really.

An accurate title of the thread might be 'Lack of pinball production has hindered entry into the hobby'.

If Stern produce lots new titles plus a backlog of Deadpool, Godzilla etc it helps but it's the others who need to up their game. If CGC could run two production lines of the new release plus an old one (MB, AFM or MM) and JJP could do the same (Toy Story plus a former title) it would help massively.

In all honesty if I knew that Bond, Jaws, Toy Story, POTC, MM, Cactus etc were imminent I'd be selling and mixing my collection up rather than sitting on it.

In essence we'll see more for sale threads when people have something else to buy.

 

[Gonzo]

@Gonzo if you were looking for the next chinwag topic……

I'm a bit scared tbh