D
Deleted member 2463
If you had been ripped off 4K I doubt you'd be impartial also
but its really easy for Mike to sort out, but he hasn't.
Pinball info
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Thunderbirds
- Thread starter Clive
- Start date
If you had been ripped off 4K I doubt you'd be impartial also
but its really easy for Mike to sort out, but he hasn't.
D
Deleted member 2463
the proc part was a note to a comment further up.
As @Martymainframe said on the podcast, Homepin went to build a BW like game and ended up building a Data East game (and one of the really early ones!)
Neil.
D
Deleted member 2463
I think what kills Thunderbirds (from what I've seen on vids) is there's no flow. Code is basic but isn't promised to be anything else. But a lack of orbits really kills the game. If the ramp just brought the ball back to the flipper instead of just falling into the pops.
I do laugh when I see people saying they won't deal with people like Mike or Andy from Heighway because they have cheated people but are perfectly fine owning a Ghost busters.
These people usually have Iphones and watch Disney films too
Ref the ghostbusters point, I did consider that for a while but in speaking to a few of the other members of the GB design team, the way it was put to me that made me feel differently was I doubt that Gary Stern would have employed JT knowing he was a pedofile and I'm sure that the rest of the GB team wouldn't have even considered working with the scumbag, the difference with Heighway (and allegedly Mike) is that they where the people carrying out the criminal acts...
Neil.
Mercifull
Registered
Never played one and I hear that after they replaced the flimsy plastic ramps for metal ones it plays a lot better. Code a little lacking perhaps but for me the standout issue is that they should have used a blue/teal DMD.
I honestly would play it in a lineup, but from me that's saying very little as I'm the one that will defend a lot of unloved games all the way to a knife fight.
Ultimately it's just not a great playing pinball. I'm not remotely close to the point where I would be buying NIB but even if I was I'd have to give it a miss on that front alone.
As Steve/Neil have alluded to, it's a bitter pill to swallow and I was prepared to ride one of those hype trains all day long, because I love Thunderbirds.
Mike had his explanations for why they designed the gameplay as they did - citing wanting to aim for simple clear gameplay for a country that had no exposure to pinball, to which the very big obvious center ramp kiiiiind of makes sense - but whatever his intention, the Chinese are not aliens, they're people like us, and everybody likes a good crazy pinball. The most popular game in the west of all time had no ball saver and, some would argue, was too hard for new players and survived on theme alone. If a really simple game was required that introduced pinball then in his shoes, I honestly would have started with the Addams Family layout. That super-easy to hit, mission-starting sinkhole Electric Chair was the game's work of genius for new players. And kept the pop bumpers regardless of what else was cut.
Ultimately it's just not a great playing pinball. I'm not remotely close to the point where I would be buying NIB but even if I was I'd have to give it a miss on that front alone.
As Steve/Neil have alluded to, it's a bitter pill to swallow and I was prepared to ride one of those hype trains all day long, because I love Thunderbirds.
Mike had his explanations for why they designed the gameplay as they did - citing wanting to aim for simple clear gameplay for a country that had no exposure to pinball, to which the very big obvious center ramp kiiiiind of makes sense - but whatever his intention, the Chinese are not aliens, they're people like us, and everybody likes a good crazy pinball. The most popular game in the west of all time had no ball saver and, some would argue, was too hard for new players and survived on theme alone. If a really simple game was required that introduced pinball then in his shoes, I honestly would have started with the Addams Family layout. That super-easy to hit, mission-starting sinkhole Electric Chair was the game's work of genius for new players. And kept the pop bumpers regardless of what else was cut.
D
Deleted member 2463
The rumour is that Mike has run out of money, check out the pinside thread! The last post is outstanding!
I'm just joking with you regarding that anyway.
I think it is terrible how in situations like this, the whole product can be cast a side and associated with the crime. Especially in music.
A fine example is the band The Lost Prophets. The lead singer was a horrible beast of a man and deserved everything he got and will continue to get for the rest of his miserable days. But the bands music was banned from radio and never to be sold again. There's 4 other people in that band who's hard work went into that music. Why should their families be deprived of money from their hard work.
A pinball machine is far more than the designer, so I'm glad GB hasn't suffered from that fate. Despite what people think of the actual gameplay haha.
Eala Dubh Sidhe
Registered
Thunderbust.
Link please @Neil McRae - Pinside is a chasm of chaos, and if i go looking too much i'll burn most of the day getting lost.... when i should be working!
thanks
Possibly the post referred to by Neil:Link please @Neil McRae - Pinside is a chasm of chaos, and if i go looking too much i'll burn most of the day getting lost.... when i should be working!
thanks
Homepin OFFICIAL Thread - Pinball Parts & Machine Progress | Boutique pinball | Pinside.com
| Forum Topic by Homepin
pinside.com
The latest from the thread:
Homepin OFFICIAL Thread - Pinball Parts & Machine Progress | Boutique pinball | Pinside.com
| Forum Topic by Homepin
pinside.com
The gist of it from what I've understood, is that all of the machines that were built to satisfy pre-order buyers have been sold onto other people, and now Homepin won't build the replacement machines for pre-order buyers because they can't afford to spin up a production run again, and are asking for all cash upfront to get the pre-order machines made.
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So pretty much what Heighway did?
It's starting to smell of it somewhat... albeit built out of Chineseum.
Mercifull
Registered
Update posted today to their facebook. First in a few weeks. Looks like delivery of ply for cabs?
I've got no skin in this game, and am not in any way defending Homepin, but this talk about them trading insolvent or whatever it is Pinside et al are suggesting appear to be based on nothing more than unsubstantiated rumours.
There is a danger, particularly on forums and with people with dubious impartiality, for conversations to turn into a bit of an echo chamber... like if enough people suggest something is the case, then that becomes the truth. Basically negative confirmation bias. Mike doesn't post on there anymore, so there is noone refuting any of the claims or allegations - not that I suspect it would be believed anyway.
Rumours may well turn out to be true, or somewhere in between. I'll choose to watch from afar and hope for the best both for the company and people who pre-ordered / want another pinball company to thrive.
There is a danger, particularly on forums and with people with dubious impartiality, for conversations to turn into a bit of an echo chamber... like if enough people suggest something is the case, then that becomes the truth. Basically negative confirmation bias. Mike doesn't post on there anymore, so there is noone refuting any of the claims or allegations - not that I suspect it would be believed anyway.
Rumours may well turn out to be true, or somewhere in between. I'll choose to watch from afar and hope for the best both for the company and people who pre-ordered / want another pinball company to thrive.
That ply might be used to board up the windows instead of going to make cabinets.Update posted today to their facebook. First in a few weeks. Looks like delivery of ply for cabs?
Neither have I, but no matter how you cut it, pre-orders not being fulfilled while other units are visibly being shipped out - and advertised on Homepin's own facebook - with only confusion and seemingly no ETA without payment for those pre-order people... well, it's an astonishly bad look in any industry, never mind pinball that has been frequently burned.
Pre-orders paid in full though? Who knows that?
Not having bought NIB pins before, is full payment up front or at point of shipping typical? Or do people expect to get stuff to their door and pay the balance on delivery?
Not having bought NIB pins before, is full payment up front or at point of shipping typical? Or do people expect to get stuff to their door and pay the balance on delivery?
The agreement with the pre-order buyers was the pre-order deposit, and then the remainder of the sum once the machines were built and ready to be shipped.
The greivance is the final sum being asked in advance of the pre-order machines supposedly being built, while other machines are going out the door to buyers once general sales had begun - pre-order people querying it and are hearing the worrying justification back of needing the cash to spin up another production run.
Even if it is honestly a business case of 'we can't justify another production run for the remaining pre-order buyers' then the pre-order buys still got shafted by being knocked to the very back of the queue behind people that just bought when general sales began. At worse they're robbing Peter to pay Paul, and they physically can't afford to make the machines.
This forum is not immune from rumors either.
I will call out
The quote posted here is written as a fact.
The first sentence is a statement.
I can assure you most of the pre order buyers waiting have paid the full price for the game ie $5,432.10 au dollars.
What is owing is the shipping costs and GST(aussie equivalent of you VAT) which is 10% in Australia.
The 10% GST is charged on the retail price PLUS the shipping price.
Thanks for the corrections!
Mercifull
Registered
Theyre still manufacturing and sending out machines. More recently theyve been sending out replacement metal ramps because the plastic ones were too flimsy. I gather there is some drama about a bunch of orders to Australia but at least its not vaporware (Zidware, Deeproot).
Mercifull
Registered
Is it a slightly racist thing? Pinball is very much Americana (Bally, Williams etc) and perhaps they are pouncing on any company not American to poo poo it?
Pinside was the same with Heighway (ok yes he was a bit shady but at least they created something pretty cool when it worked), TeamPinball/Mafia (ex Heighway employees from Wales/Bristol area) and are very critical of Homepin (Australian designed, Chinese made) even when they try to improve the product (such as the replacement ramps and more recently flipper bushes).
When I see pinside also going mental over deeproot, and even rumours of JJP on the borderline of going bust, it seems like they want everyone else to fail leaving only the golden child of Stern remaining like some sort of pinball-Highlander.
Pinside was the same with Heighway (ok yes he was a bit shady but at least they created something pretty cool when it worked), TeamPinball/Mafia (ex Heighway employees from Wales/Bristol area) and are very critical of Homepin (Australian designed, Chinese made) even when they try to improve the product (such as the replacement ramps and more recently flipper bushes).
When I see pinside also going mental over deeproot, and even rumours of JJP on the borderline of going bust, it seems like they want everyone else to fail leaving only the golden child of Stern remaining like some sort of pinball-Highlander.
Its the Aussies on Pinside that are mostly doing it. I think Mike may have wronged them at some point in some way, so they hold a grudge? They seem to take pleasure in criticising any bit of news, no matter how positive, that comes out either about the pin, or someone who has got it. Mike has been quite vocal and confrontational (arguably in the face of provocation) on the thread, and has flounced in and out of it several times - which I guess hasn't helped. I guess you could understand that though if you're a one-man-band, with a dream, and people are just slating you/the pin/the company at every opportunity.
On the US side, I think there are also some long term grievances over how Homepin pinched some code that was done by a guy called Ben Heck, without attribution? That side of things is definitely sketchy, and indefensible really.
There is definitely an undercurrent of anti-Chinese attitude though from people who are Team Stern etc, for sure.
But objectively speaking whilst TB as a theme does nothing for me, and I've heard that there are some genuine complaints about "feel" of the pin, nevertheless the guy has made a pin from scratch, realised a dream and overcome a number of personal and professional obstacles that would've stopped others in their tracks. It deserves a measure of respect for that at least.
On the US side, I think there are also some long term grievances over how Homepin pinched some code that was done by a guy called Ben Heck, without attribution? That side of things is definitely sketchy, and indefensible really.
There is definitely an undercurrent of anti-Chinese attitude though from people who are Team Stern etc, for sure.
But objectively speaking whilst TB as a theme does nothing for me, and I've heard that there are some genuine complaints about "feel" of the pin, nevertheless the guy has made a pin from scratch, realised a dream and overcome a number of personal and professional obstacles that would've stopped others in their tracks. It deserves a measure of respect for that at least.
People fear change - they're also crap at it.
Change is the only constant.
Pinside: Adapt & stop whining. And also stop literally throwing piles of money at this stuff! They're big toys for big children - so you should expect big tears.
Change is the only constant.
Pinside: Adapt & stop whining. And also stop literally throwing piles of money at this stuff! They're big toys for big children - so you should expect big tears.