Help them get off there ****,have a meet at yours,an other and two at Pete's,they will
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South West League 2018
- Thread starter Moonraker
- Start date
Help them get off there ****,have a meet at yours,an other and two at Pete's,they will
Poibug is a legend and the UK scene would be a lot worse off and less colourful without him, Daz and all the NlP crew.
As frequently happens I disagree with you.
If Barcelona, or Real get barred from cl for an infringement of some rules and someone else wins, that's those teams fault,and that years winners, their name would justifiably be on the trophy
Rather than spunking money on tees give it to prostate cancer.A charity a pinshow is raising money for later in the year
But the sw didn’t play in the league this year so it will still be representative
No ?
I do agree that all regions ‘that compete’ should have the opertunity to be at the finals.
What if Peter does host 4 meets in a day and Craig, David, Rich or Greg (your list) can’t make it due to whatever reason would it still be a fair representation ?
At the end of the day it makes no difference to me but if we are to be a league surely we have to have some sort of framework to adhere to ?
No ?
I do agree that all regions ‘that compete’ should have the opertunity to be at the finals.
What if Peter does host 4 meets in a day and Craig, David, Rich or Greg (your list) can’t make it due to whatever reason would it still be a fair representation ?
At the end of the day it makes no difference to me but if we are to be a league surely we have to have some sort of framework to adhere to ?
It's called flexibility of rules.
What I said IMO was flexibility what was proposed by them IMO wasnt
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Deleted member 2463
For the record II don't think anyone disagrees with that; I certainly wasn't speaking about any individuals, more so the community that we can't agree to bend a rule that makes no ****ing difference in the big scheme of things anyway.
No, its like when people say Nico Rosberg was world champion. Everyone knows its only because Hamilton's engine blew up.
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Deleted member 2463
Chris, just to be clear I'm not doubting the effort that you've put in. It just seems nuts to not have the two players that represented the UK at IFPA this year in the UK finals.
Neil.
To win a race ya have to finish, sadly he did not.
Re this pinball sw league they didn't even try to turn up to any races.
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Deleted member 2463
I've said all I'm going to say - it would be easy to make this happen if we really want to see the best finals at Daventry. I'm not good enough to make it to the finals so its no huge deal to me. My offer of using my place as a venue stands. I can host on the following weekends:
Aug 4/5
Aug 11/12
Aug 18/19
Aug 4/5
Aug 11/12
Aug 18/19
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Deleted member 2463
let me know.
Got to agree we didnt have any meets take place so can't expect an automatic free pass entry just cos of past performance or wppr standing.
Got to have attended the meets to qualify. I agree that it seems too late in day to do anything now. We didn't get our **** together as already mentioned so just have to accept that and look forward to next year.
Yes league finals will be weaker without players mentioned but SW didn't qualify!
Appreciate all the suggestions and offers of help but prob all too late in the day now given other conps coming up and summer hols to organise 4 meets and get enough players to make them meaningful.
Got to have attended the meets to qualify. I agree that it seems too late in day to do anything now. We didn't get our **** together as already mentioned so just have to accept that and look forward to next year.
Yes league finals will be weaker without players mentioned but SW didn't qualify!
Appreciate all the suggestions and offers of help but prob all too late in the day now given other conps coming up and summer hols to organise 4 meets and get enough players to make them meaningful.
2 meets at SWL. 2 meets at Neils?
To attend 4 meets in almost as many weeks is asking way too much which was why I suggested doing the 4 in a day. Even the hard core player amongst us have a bit of a life outside of pinball, never mind those that are less committed.
This thread is amazing 
74 posts in 24 hours talking about competitive pinball in the UK, who should be allowed to qualify etc, I honestly didn’t think people would care! there was me thinking competitive pinball is basically dead in the UK, almost everyone is basically apathetic. However, there is clearly so much passion here, if only we could harness it and turn it into something decent!
Unfortunately actions speak louder than words. Thomas is running one of the coolest formats (it’s the same format they run at the sanctum where over 100 spots sale out in less than 10 seconds!) that I have ever seen, at flipout in September. Tickets went on sale weeks ago, there are currently 8 people playing in the tournament!
People can bitch and moan and complain that this or that isn’t fair, but when it comes down to it, no one turns up anyway!
I love the passion guys. I love to play pinball. More pinball is better. Is Pete’s suggestion fair on all other regions, nah probably not. Would it be a shame for the SW not to be represented. Yep.
Does my opinion matter at all, nah. Wayne makes the call, I trust that he will weigh up the pro’s and cons and make an informed and reasoned call, that’s it.
74 posts in 24 hours talking about competitive pinball in the UK, who should be allowed to qualify etc, I honestly didn’t think people would care! there was me thinking competitive pinball is basically dead in the UK, almost everyone is basically apathetic. However, there is clearly so much passion here, if only we could harness it and turn it into something decent!
Unfortunately actions speak louder than words. Thomas is running one of the coolest formats (it’s the same format they run at the sanctum where over 100 spots sale out in less than 10 seconds!) that I have ever seen, at flipout in September. Tickets went on sale weeks ago, there are currently 8 people playing in the tournament!
People can bitch and moan and complain that this or that isn’t fair, but when it comes down to it, no one turns up anyway!
I love the passion guys. I love to play pinball. More pinball is better. Is Pete’s suggestion fair on all other regions, nah probably not. Would it be a shame for the SW not to be represented. Yep.
Does my opinion matter at all, nah. Wayne makes the call, I trust that he will weigh up the pro’s and cons and make an informed and reasoned call, that’s it.
I love the proposed format of the 24 hour comp ie way matches set up but not the 24 hours. After 8-10 hours play it will stop being fun and become more of a test of endurance which is when time to bail.
I would love to go but not for all night so will reluctantly give that one a miss which is a shame. If it had been 12 hours would have been very keen.
I notice you're not one of the 8?
I would love to go but not for all night so will reluctantly give that one a miss which is a shame. If it had been 12 hours would have been very keen.
I notice you're not one of the 8?
I said I wasn't going to post again, but here goes anyway.
I have contacted ALL of the regional coordinators, Helmut included, and it is unanimous that there will not be any 'free pass' or 'work around' with multiple meets in a day type scenario.
It was not a decision taken lightly, and everything possible was done by Helmut, with my support, to try and get meetings in the SW.
If anyone wants to quote excerpts of the rules they are free to do so, but make sure you read the whole ruleset as it clearly states why Peter's suggestion is not valid.
Specifically 1b, 4a and 8. It could also be argued that if 1c applies to entrants, it should also apply to venues.(These are the rules that were already in place before I took over from Greg).
It is unfortunate that some people will not have the opportunity to enter the League finals, but let's be clear. This is 1 competition which has taken place over the last 7 months. It is not the be all and end all if some people don't enter.
As for people saying it means whoever does win will have their title tainted, just look up who, and which regions they have represented, the winners have come from in the last 7 years.
I am happy to speak to anybody in person at Swavesey, or Flipout, or Daventry about some of the reasons why meetings didn't take place this year, but consider the matter closed here and see no point in continuing it further.
To quote The Pub Landlord " If we didn't have rules where would we be - France" ?
I have contacted ALL of the regional coordinators, Helmut included, and it is unanimous that there will not be any 'free pass' or 'work around' with multiple meets in a day type scenario.
It was not a decision taken lightly, and everything possible was done by Helmut, with my support, to try and get meetings in the SW.
If anyone wants to quote excerpts of the rules they are free to do so, but make sure you read the whole ruleset as it clearly states why Peter's suggestion is not valid.
Specifically 1b, 4a and 8. It could also be argued that if 1c applies to entrants, it should also apply to venues.(These are the rules that were already in place before I took over from Greg).
It is unfortunate that some people will not have the opportunity to enter the League finals, but let's be clear. This is 1 competition which has taken place over the last 7 months. It is not the be all and end all if some people don't enter.
As for people saying it means whoever does win will have their title tainted, just look up who, and which regions they have represented, the winners have come from in the last 7 years.
I am happy to speak to anybody in person at Swavesey, or Flipout, or Daventry about some of the reasons why meetings didn't take place this year, but consider the matter closed here and see no point in continuing it further.
To quote The Pub Landlord " If we didn't have rules where would we be - France" ?
I
I accept this is the correct decision. Thanks for giving it the consideration and time that I know you will have put into it and for trying to make something work with Helmut in the SW this year. And thanks to all the other region co-ordinators for their time on this too. Fingers crossed for next year
I accept this is the correct decision. Thanks for giving it the consideration and time that I know you will have put into it and for trying to make something work with Helmut in the SW this year. And thanks to all the other region co-ordinators for their time on this too. Fingers crossed for next year
Probably not the place to ask but is there a tourney at Daventry that isn't league related and just open to those who turn up that weekend? I wouldn't be in SW anyway even if it was running as it was too much driving for me most of the time!
I think a framework needs to be put in place to prevent a re-occurrence in the future. This could happen elsewhere and not just in the South West. Something along the lines of if the regional co-ordinator has not published the league dates by (let's say) end of February then they must handover to the UK league co-ordinator or their appointed deputy. That should give the UK league co-ordinator sufficient time to organise something and prevent any possibility of it happening again.
It is a terrible way to let down players in the South West (and South Wales) region. Perhaps many of them can't give two hoots but as the league co-ordinators you should, in the interests of promoting pinball and the league.
It is a terrible way to let down players in the South West (and South Wales) region. Perhaps many of them can't give two hoots but as the league co-ordinators you should, in the interests of promoting pinball and the league.
Yes, there will be the UK open and Classics.
That’s just nonsense now. Fair enough Lewis is an awesome talent but the world championship is not won on one race. It also is not just about the fastest driver, it’s the full package, who can maintain their allocation of engines, Kers units etc for a full season.
Nico won it fair and square and deserved it and was a class act, that’s coming from a life long Tifosi. Don’t get me started on Lewis or I will end up filling pages of how much of a spoilt **** he is and blames everyone but himself when he screws up and is everyone’s mate when he wins.
I do not really have a dog in this fight as I have only attended 2 of the 6 midlands league meetings this year.
It seems clear to me that two active members of the SW pinball scene have both had much bigger issues to contend with, and that represents unusual and exceptional circumstances that are a major part of the issue at hand. This is obviously soluble in the future.
But speaking as someone that opens up his home and games to pinball events, an observation from this is that there are seemingly folk abusing machines and spoiling the events in the SW for others.
If the SW hosts are fearful of hosting because of problem players, then the SW League is in real trouble, regardless of who organises it. Perhaps the league might consider whether its rules on abusing machines and general conduct are fit for purpose.
First offence should be something like a ban from the current meeting and the next meeting too. Second offence could be a season ban.
It seems clear to me that two active members of the SW pinball scene have both had much bigger issues to contend with, and that represents unusual and exceptional circumstances that are a major part of the issue at hand. This is obviously soluble in the future.
But speaking as someone that opens up his home and games to pinball events, an observation from this is that there are seemingly folk abusing machines and spoiling the events in the SW for others.
If the SW hosts are fearful of hosting because of problem players, then the SW League is in real trouble, regardless of who organises it. Perhaps the league might consider whether its rules on abusing machines and general conduct are fit for purpose.
First offence should be something like a ban from the current meeting and the next meeting too. Second offence could be a season ban.
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Deleted member 2463
Utter nonsense!
how well do you know Lewis mate? How many times have you met him? How many times have you drank beer with him? How many times have you raced him?
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Deleted member 2463
Helmut approached me at the very start of the season with the problem, which had been building from previous years and ignored. Trust me, everything was done to find solutions, hosts. I'd also point out that when Greg announced he was stepping down there was a deafening silence as to who was going to take over - until now.
The problem with enforcing rules, is somebody needs to complain AT THE TIME. It seems that people were too worried about causing a scene, or upsetting people to do so. They just chose to either vote with their feet and not attend future meetings, or not offer to host.
It's human nature - how many people have gone to a restaurant, not enjoyed the food, but rather than complain just not gone back - or a better example gone to a nice quiet pub and there has been a group of yobs in there, rather than complain to the bar staff, the vast majority of people just won't go back.
There are very specific rules in place already, along with a scale of punishments.
It would appear the only apathy is in the SW. The only thing dead is IFPA, it no longer holds any draw as it's not fit for purpose. Just take a look at the country listing. Really?
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Deleted member 2463
Why is IFPA dead?
Seems to be working for the rest of the world!
There is definitely a lack of will on competitions either travelling or arranging - having been to quite a few events outside the U.K. - the difference is huge.
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Not really the thread but ok:
It is a self fulfilling system. Ranking points earnt by beating better players results in more points. Fine in theory until you take into account that all the high ranked players are in the same country, thus it becomes self fulfilling as they continue to play each other. Think world series baseball.
It has been "recaculated" so many time it's not funny. I went from 85th to about 180th and a lot of us just stopped regarding it as of any value at that point.
You have unlimited attempts at improving by attending more events, although only your top 15 count, if you attended 100 events and only did well in 15 as opposed to attending 15 and doing well in 15 they would be ranked equally. This is the effective percentage but it doesn't count.
Player VS player can only work if they actually play each other. A world ranking based on pools of players that never interact is not an indication of the best player.
Anyway, Zach refuses to see any problem with any of it.
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Deleted member 2463
When I look at it though the rankings for players seems not unreasonable when you compare it to results. And as long as there is no way for these players to play each other regularly any system will have downsides and upsides.
So the best player on IFPA ranking just happen to win the world championship so whilst it’s not perfect - it’s not a million miles away from it. Look at who was in the final and again it’s pretty close!
Cheers,
Neil
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