D
Deleted member 2463
something better than nothing.
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South West League 2018
- Thread starter Moonraker
- Start date
First of all, thank you to Peter for offering this as a solution, I just wish it had been run past me and the other League co-ordinators first, rather than in a public forum.
This will be my ONLY post in public on this thread about this topic.
This is NOT a problem that has just occurred this year with Greg stepping down and Helmut taking over. I have spoken with Helmut a number of times to see what support could be offered and to try and find solutions, but to no avail.
If you recall there were only 5 SW meetings last year, with the crazy situation of a player attending over half the meetings held, winning them all, and still not officially qualifying for the A Finals. Only 3 people played all 5 meets, and the same venue had to be used twice to even reach that number.
My initial thoughts are that this shouldn't happen as a one-off event.
What if a person is not able to attend that day, they would effectively miss a whole season because they can't attend a single day.
It also takes away the fact that in all of the other regions, meetings have taken place across different venues allowing neighbours, friends and relatives of the host have been encouraged to attend and introduce them into pinball, this wouldn't happen on a single event. In fact it is likely to further increase the division between the ultra competitive and the social players which has been the main cause of the problems in the SW.
Certain individuals will have much greater experience of the machines being used, thus giving a massive advantage.
It may be that it will mean that some of the expected players aren't in the finals at Daventry. However each and every person had the opportunity to attend any other league and qualify from there. If they were unsure as to when SW meetings were taking place they could have contacted Helmut or myself who could have given details.
It may be that the individuals will take a look at their own behaviour and actually apologise to the previous hosts (although highly unlikely as they do not see that they are the cause of this in the first place), or at the very least make a commitment to act like adults and treat the hosts, machines, fellow competitors etc. with the respect deserved.
It may be that the people who have previously hosted, and others who have the capacity to, may be encouraged to host next year and we can get the SW region alive and kicking again.
None of this will happen if there is basically a free pass, and all the issues are brushed under the carpet.
I will discuss it with the other regional co-ordinators, but feel that it would need an extraordinary argument (which I can't see) to change my initial viewpoint
This will be my ONLY post in public on this thread about this topic.
This is NOT a problem that has just occurred this year with Greg stepping down and Helmut taking over. I have spoken with Helmut a number of times to see what support could be offered and to try and find solutions, but to no avail.
If you recall there were only 5 SW meetings last year, with the crazy situation of a player attending over half the meetings held, winning them all, and still not officially qualifying for the A Finals. Only 3 people played all 5 meets, and the same venue had to be used twice to even reach that number.
- The issue has come from a number of previous hosts refusing to hold a meeting due to the behaviour of certain competitors, including excessive use of force on the machines, loud and boorish behaviour, etc.
- There have also been personal fallings out which has compounded the issue.
- Individuals giving the co-ordinator/hosts a hard time because the date they had volunteered to host clashed with a European competition, or some other reason they couldn't attend that particular date.
- I have been contacted by a number of individuals who previously competed in the SW region asking for details about the Midlands region as they won't attend meetings when certain individuals are present due to their behaviour.
My initial thoughts are that this shouldn't happen as a one-off event.
What if a person is not able to attend that day, they would effectively miss a whole season because they can't attend a single day.
It also takes away the fact that in all of the other regions, meetings have taken place across different venues allowing neighbours, friends and relatives of the host have been encouraged to attend and introduce them into pinball, this wouldn't happen on a single event. In fact it is likely to further increase the division between the ultra competitive and the social players which has been the main cause of the problems in the SW.
Certain individuals will have much greater experience of the machines being used, thus giving a massive advantage.
It may be that it will mean that some of the expected players aren't in the finals at Daventry. However each and every person had the opportunity to attend any other league and qualify from there. If they were unsure as to when SW meetings were taking place they could have contacted Helmut or myself who could have given details.
It may be that the individuals will take a look at their own behaviour and actually apologise to the previous hosts (although highly unlikely as they do not see that they are the cause of this in the first place), or at the very least make a commitment to act like adults and treat the hosts, machines, fellow competitors etc. with the respect deserved.
It may be that the people who have previously hosted, and others who have the capacity to, may be encouraged to host next year and we can get the SW region alive and kicking again.
None of this will happen if there is basically a free pass, and all the issues are brushed under the carpet.
I will discuss it with the other regional co-ordinators, but feel that it would need an extraordinary argument (which I can't see) to change my initial viewpoint
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Fair enough.
Thanks for the offer Pete, very good of you for trying to make it work
Thanks for the offer Pete, very good of you for trying to make it work
D
Deleted member 2463
People actually behave badly at folks homes? Are you kidding me?
Totally agree it would have been much better and appropriate if Peter had approached you, Wayne directly with the proposal rather than publicly here.
I hope we can resurrect SW next year. I am aware of behaviour issues which has unfortunately led to the loss of goodwill of some excellent hosts although I don't believe this is the main reason for no SW league this year.
I do believe its not lack of hosts that have stopped it this year but lack of organisation and personal circumstances, not anyone's fault just how things have panned out and I've certainly not given Helmut the help he could have done with. However, agree lack of hosts has certainly not helped but where there's a will there's a way and I know of 4 hosts we could hopefully rely on and if we had to double up (assuming enough willing) we could still do a league. I know in the early years in Scotland, we had all meets at John Higgins cos there was no-one else to host and although not ideal, better than no league at all! So if there is enough interest and enthusiasm I do still believe we can have a SW region next year. We just need to get our ****s in gear earlier and you never know we may get one or two more hosts on board. I'll chat with Helmut.
The other main issue we have in SW is how spread out the region is compared to others which are more concentrated. Most meets require a 4 hour round trip for the majority of players and with only a few dedicated players. this can also deter players from going to all meets and just focusing on ones much more local to them. We also seem to have fewer players/collectors in the region generally as the original ones have moved onto new hobbies and not replaced by new blood unlike other regions. Not sure a solution to these!!
Also totally accept that given lack of stuff happening, anyone had the opportunity to compete in another region if they were that bothered enough as Peter, Keith and Jack did albeit maybe a bit late in day to get in all meets and possibly the 4 required. Although also not that practical for some of the players deeper in the region than on the edge like these 3, still an option.
I hope we can resurrect SW next year. I am aware of behaviour issues which has unfortunately led to the loss of goodwill of some excellent hosts although I don't believe this is the main reason for no SW league this year.
I do believe its not lack of hosts that have stopped it this year but lack of organisation and personal circumstances, not anyone's fault just how things have panned out and I've certainly not given Helmut the help he could have done with. However, agree lack of hosts has certainly not helped but where there's a will there's a way and I know of 4 hosts we could hopefully rely on and if we had to double up (assuming enough willing) we could still do a league. I know in the early years in Scotland, we had all meets at John Higgins cos there was no-one else to host and although not ideal, better than no league at all! So if there is enough interest and enthusiasm I do still believe we can have a SW region next year. We just need to get our ****s in gear earlier and you never know we may get one or two more hosts on board. I'll chat with Helmut.
The other main issue we have in SW is how spread out the region is compared to others which are more concentrated. Most meets require a 4 hour round trip for the majority of players and with only a few dedicated players. this can also deter players from going to all meets and just focusing on ones much more local to them. We also seem to have fewer players/collectors in the region generally as the original ones have moved onto new hobbies and not replaced by new blood unlike other regions. Not sure a solution to these!!
Also totally accept that given lack of stuff happening, anyone had the opportunity to compete in another region if they were that bothered enough as Peter, Keith and Jack did albeit maybe a bit late in day to get in all meets and possibly the 4 required. Although also not that practical for some of the players deeper in the region than on the edge like these 3, still an option.
I'm bringing TNA and TWD
home advantage is clear but I suggest the SW folks plays often enough at SWL thats its less of an issue.
Glad you now understand the advantage explanation
I can see both sides to this, but I have to ultimately agree with Wayne on the underlying principles of the league and how it fairs on other regions. From the UK Pinball League website:
B. Number of meetings
A minimum of four and maximum of six league meetings will be held in each region per year at least three different venues to create a regional league competition. No venue should be used more than twice in the season.
It would be unfair on the other regions to bend these rules.
As others have said, very kind indeed of Peter to step up to offer this. There is of course 10 weeks between now and the finals, if the SW league people want it then there IS still time to get 4 meets in, maybe even 1 of them could be arranged at the league finals themselves although i'm not clear on the rules around location as to whether that would be permitted, given that it's in the midlands). Yes, it would mean attendance would be low as i'm sure a lot of people already have existing arrangements, but if willing hosts literally just picked a sunday and allocated just 4 machines to be played, there's absolutely no reason why the SW people couldn't nab some finals spots. It doesn't HAVE to be a big organised thing - don't even bother with food if you don't want.
So, if it was an option to hold a meet just before the finals, and Peter still offers SWL for one meet, you only need 2 hosts (or the same host twice) and boom, you have your league for this season.
See you all at Daventry, looking forward to it.
Kate
B. Number of meetings
A minimum of four and maximum of six league meetings will be held in each region per year at least three different venues to create a regional league competition. No venue should be used more than twice in the season.
It would be unfair on the other regions to bend these rules.
As others have said, very kind indeed of Peter to step up to offer this. There is of course 10 weeks between now and the finals, if the SW league people want it then there IS still time to get 4 meets in, maybe even 1 of them could be arranged at the league finals themselves although i'm not clear on the rules around location as to whether that would be permitted, given that it's in the midlands). Yes, it would mean attendance would be low as i'm sure a lot of people already have existing arrangements, but if willing hosts literally just picked a sunday and allocated just 4 machines to be played, there's absolutely no reason why the SW people couldn't nab some finals spots. It doesn't HAVE to be a big organised thing - don't even bother with food if you don't want.
So, if it was an option to hold a meet just before the finals, and Peter still offers SWL for one meet, you only need 2 hosts (or the same host twice) and boom, you have your league for this season.
See you all at Daventry, looking forward to it.
Kate
Agreed still time two at Pete's two a n other
Plus 're location flexibility could be granted e.g. in London,or surrey etc
Plus 're location flexibility could be granted e.g. in London,or surrey etc
D
Deleted member 2463
Happy to offer Domino Arcade as a venue for the South West but I won’t take **** from bad behaviour goons!
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Fair enough - could be a solution, but I suspect at this stage there are very few who could make more than one or two of the events, which obviously puts them at a disadavantage, just a different one from those who can't do the one date or aren't so familiar with the SWL machines which there is concern for the advantage.
Bit concerned about the 'flexibility' being allowed on the locations - you seem to be saying that 'the rules are the rules and must be followed, apart from the ones I think we can be flexible on, in which case we can do something different'?
is this really to get SW representation at Daventry or is it really just all about ranking points, as presumably points are awarded??
Unlikely to happen given what other league organisers and co-ordinators have said.
The UK calendar is busy until 15th July at the earliest, 22nd is out and 29th was when I offered to host. I could host a second time say 5th August but I think it would be too many events crammed in to too short a time. Hence the play 4 mini meets at 1 venue suggestion on 1 day that I came up with, not an ideal solution but possibly better than nothing.
The UK calendar is busy until 15th July at the earliest, 22nd is out and 29th was when I offered to host. I could host a second time say 5th August but I think it would be too many events crammed in to too short a time. Hence the play 4 mini meets at 1 venue suggestion on 1 day that I came up with, not an ideal solution but possibly better than nothing.
In fact it's in everyone else's favour for it not to happen so that there is less opposition in the UK league finals...
I'd rather there was representation rather than have people say "you only won because there was no SW league representation".
I'd rather there was representation rather than have people say "you only won because there was no SW league representation".
D
Deleted member 2463
So the best players in the UK Craig, David M and Rich M won’t be in the finals. If that’s the case, the finals are a freaking farce!
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Deleted member 2463
Oh and Greg! Even more of a farce!
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Deleted member 2463
Might as well, turn on extra balls, take off the tilt bob lower the angle to 5deg and remove the glass in Daventry!
D
Deleted member 2463
I’m printing “we was robbed” tshirts
For me it was about the chance of another day to play pinball on a date I could make at a venue I could reach with a reasonable drive (2 hours each way) Unfortunately I can't go Daventry either way (very unlikely as it is have been that I would have been anywhere near the top) but as Peter has just said he was just trying to facilitate something. Shame it hasnt worked out.
I had a few minutes to spare , so have just taken the unusual step of 'reading the rules' of the UK Pinball League - interesting to note that re:qualification they say:
The number of players who can qualify for the finals from each region is decided by the average attendance for each region. The number of finalists for each region will be weighted between each region’s average attendance with a minimum of three qualifiers per region and a maximum of five (or six in exceptional cases). The A Finals will comprise the following players:
South West - top three finishers
Midlands - top five finishers
London & South East - top five finishers
Northern - top six finishers
Scottish - top four finishers
Irish - top three finishers
So for the finals to take place and follow the rules there is no equivocation, the 'A-finals will comprise the top three finishers from the South West'. If none are in attendance from the South West then presumably the finals can't be held or the results are invalid as the rules have been broken ?n
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Deleted member 2463
I personally request, I plead, I beg, I sacrifice the golden disc of Theatre of magic, by the special power of the silver ball and by the greenness of the lock is lit light that the South West region be given a one off extra ball pass to host their tourney at SWL as proposed. The drain keepers of the UK pinball league are urged to be the multiball hero’s of the UK and not the simuldrainous shepards of the most shambolic finals in the history of all that is governed by the lord of coils.
YOU CAN MAKE IT HAPPEN!
YOU CAN MAKE IT HAPPEN!
Why did it take a year to realise there were no meets and for someone who isnt even the coordinator to try to do something about it? A bit late, no?
Grow up dude,there are many really good players all over uk, many will be there.Ive been in ukpinball scene many many years so know these guys.Some you listed many more are out there some still play,some don't
At any one time about 20 players I know of could win
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Deleted member 2463
It’s a glorious scene we’re people don’t work together to make it the best it can be! And then you tell me to grow up! Classic!
What a load of old codswallop.
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Deleted member 2463
I dunno but maybe the Co-ordinator was a bit busy trying to keep the roof
Over his head and the previous coordinator has his hands full too!
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Deleted member 2463
Yes -really-
I feel for whoever wins it. It’s like the last F1 race at Indy. A complete farce!
Neil
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D
Deleted member 2463
Oh and I’m not even in the SW league I would just like the finals to be the best they can be and representative!
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I've been helping imake it a great scene,along with others for 13 years.
I've personally wired double figures worth of shows,repaired 100s of machines,took loads of machines to shows,organised a lot of shows along with other NLP members,donated prizes, attended dozens shows.Whenever at pretty much any pin meet I help out.Just informing you of this as you are new to the hobby.
I've eaned my pinball stripes.I think that entitles me to an opinion on a public forum.
The ukscene is where it's at due to the hard work of those in the past , and will continue .The pinball world won't cave in just cos I disagree on the proposals re sw league.
I even offered an opinion with a compromise yet get shot for it