Pinshed Build

[Deleted member 2463]

Dave,
looks good.

is your base to building regs spec? What they need seems insane. I;d love to know roughly how much it cost you as I'm about to build mine!

The insulation is also nuts. I'm hoping to position mine as occasional use and have a building regs sane person. To add building regs to my cabin almost doubles the price!!! Got a planning expert coming round to give me some advice on how Woking council work.

Neil.

 

[Deleted member 2463]

the building regs charges are a joke also!!

 

[Anton]

Don't know too much about this stuff but how about using some of this stuff?

Smart Water is a dna marker you can paint on your stuff or as per you tube clip where you can have a curtain spray that will cover your unwanted visitors!

Shell suits are probably impervious to it....!lol

 

[DRD]

@Neil McRae

This is massively over specced for a pinball shed. But the starting point was a detached home office for my wife, so that set the standard we wanted for floor rigidity, insulation etc. If it is not as comfortable as the house to work in, she will not use it. And that means it has to be comfortable all year round, heavy rain, snow on the roof, well insulated, quiet etc.

Because we wanted to use it to screen our garden from the public highway, that dragged the planning department into it. Exceeding 30 sqm dragged building control into it

You can keep planning out of it by keeping the roof below 2.5m tall and putting the shed in your back garden. Just be careful with toppers though, you need to preserve every inch of ceiling height if you keep thecroofline within planning guidelines. As I had to get planning, I increased the roof height of mine a bit

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/43/outbuildings

I think my base is ridiculously overengineered. I did want an insulated concrete floor, so the insulation and screed were fine with me. But the inititial slab seems a bit daft. I believe that 9 inches thick with double layers of mesh is what building regulations require. My soil is clay so that causes you trouble and leads to deeper foundations than you might like

You could save a load of time and money by going for a wooden floor.

The insulation, I do not mind. I have added celotex to the solid walls of my own house and at a stroke it transformed the place. It made it warmer and quieter. My house used to to have hotspots and coldspots, the whole place is much more even now. I want this shed to be well acoustically insulated and the celotex helps here too

To make your life easier, there is a scam where you can do 2x 30 sqm buildings and link them with a tunnel. This gets treated as two buildings.

We do not anticipate selling the house or moving, but if we did the entrance to this is only 3m from our back door. So I reckon we would recover what we paid for this thing. Old houses around here sometimes have wood panelled barns sat on a few courses of bricks, so it is virtually an extension to the house It has a nice view over the garden so new owner would use it as a kids play room, granny annexe, gym, hostel for 100 illegals, s&m dungeon ....

 

[newdos]

@Neil McRae

This is massively over specced for a pinball shed. But the starting point was a detached home office for my wife, so that set the standard we wanted for floor rigidity, insulation etc. If it is not as comfortable as the house to work in, she will not use it. And that means it has to be comfortable all year round, heavy rain, snow on the roof, well insulated, quiet etc.

Because we wanted to use it to screen our garden from the public highway, that dragged the planning department into it. Exceeding 30 sqm dragged building control into it

You can keep planning out of it by keeping the roof below 2.5m tall and putting the shed in your back garden. Just be careful with toppers though, you need to preserve every inch of ceiling height if you keep thecroofline within planning guidelines. As I had to get planning, I increased the roof height of mine a bit

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/43/outbuildings

I think my base is ridiculously overengineered. I did want an insulated concrete floor, so the insulation and screed were fine with me. But the inititial slab seems a bit daft. I believe that 9 inches thick with double layers of mesh is what building regulations require. My soil is clay so that causes you trouble and leads to deeper foundations than you might like

You could save a load of time and money by going for a wooden floor.

The insulation, I do not mind. I have added celotex to the solid walls of my own house and at a stroke it transformed the place. It made it warmer and quieter. My house used to to have hotspots and coldspots, the whole place is much more even now. I want this shed to be well acoustically insulated and the celotex helps here too

To make your life easier, there is a scam where you can do 2x 30 sqm buildings and link them with a tunnel. This gets treated as two buildings.

We do not anticipate selling the house or moving, but if we did the entrance to this is only 3m from our back door. So I reckon we would recover what we paid for this thing. Old houses around here sometimes have wood panelled barns sat on a few courses of bricks, so it is virtually an extension to the house It has a nice view over the garden so new owner would use it as a kids play room, granny annexe, gym, hostel for 100 illegals, s&m dungeon ....
View attachment 50435
View attachment 50436

Dave,

That scam you mentioned is correct but I believe you cannot link them(not in our council anyway) the reason I was given it was because my build was within 2m of the boundary but just under the 30sqm, so because of this it was a fire risk. But believe it or not if I built 2 buildings 15sqm or less I could put then as close to any boundarys I wanted to as long as there was at leasta 40mm gap between the 2 buildings - utterly ludicrous!!!!

Looking good so far though bud - are you going to give us a running tally of the costs as you go ?

Cheers

kev

 

[DRD]

I am in complete denial regarding the costs. I will try to get some approximations by the end. I haven't had a bill yet.

My builder works very quickly. He has an amazing spread of tools so can really crack on. Tipper lorry. Teleporter. Two wacker machines. Laser theodolite. It makes such a change to see someone with the correct gear.

Labour is 200 a day plus vat for him and his lad.
Digger hire 75 a day

 

[Deleted member 2463]

You can link them - pretty much every large log build company have suggested it (schools use this loophole a lot apparently). But I need to go planning as I want to go close to my boundary.

The base building control spec for anything over 30m2 is significant also - I'm with you on the fact it has to feel like home - my current cabin delivered this and it's warm and cosy or nice and chilled if need be. So I'm happy to over spend on insulation rather than get it wrong and wish I'd done it differently. One of the cabins I'm looking at a double skin and 70MM which the log cabins folks say will be amazing. Other advantage of double skin is hiding electric cables etc and sound insulation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[DRD]

I looked at the twin wall cabins but you hit condensation voodoo.

Some argue that trapping air between two layers of wood is creating condensation problems. Most cabins are soft wood too.

I personally hate allowing cold damp air into structures. In winter it leaves a film of moisture everywhere. It is why I went for the warm roof.

So I do not need to vent my new loft. But I do need to vent the hardieplank. But this is concrete so that is ok. And the other side of this air gap is a breathable membrane like tyvek so I am OK with that too.

 

[Deleted member 2463]

I looked at the twin wall cabins but you hit condensation voodoo.

Some argue that trapping air between two layers of wood is creating condensation problems. Most cabins are soft wood too.

I personally hate allowing cold damp air into structures. In winter it leaves a film of moisture everywhere. It is why I went for the warm roof.

So I do not need to vent my new loft. But I do need to vent the hardieplank. But this is concrete so that is ok. And the other side of this air gap is a breathable membrane like tyvek so I am OK with that too.

Yes that worried me also but to some extent potentially applies to any building, the problem with wood is that it needs to move. Especially the outer skin. My roof will be insulated also and the floor, and most of the cold risk is coming in from the floor. I have the same setup on my current cabin and haven't seen any condensation problems so far but its a lot smaller and the AC never lets the room get below 14C.

 

[DRD]

I went round and round on all this. I even considered a brick extension.

In the end I went with the @Jsyjay model, as that seemed the right balance between cost, utility and on-site chaos for my wife and I. She was utterly opposed to cutting into our gable end, so the extension got dropped

Going from inside to out

Plaster
Insulated fireboard (unnecessry) plasterboard (25mm celotex plus 12.5mm board). Cheaper to buy the insulation and plasterboard separately
Plastic membrane. Not breathable
Wood frame (90mm thick)
10 mm air gap for cabling
75mm celotex
18mm osb3 board
Breathable membrane (tyvek)
25 mm spacer lats
Hardieplank

the warm roof, going from inside out

Roof truss
18mm osb3 board
Plastic membrane, not breathable
100mm celotex
18mm osb3
Glue
Epdm 1.5mm

I know there is no right or wrong here. But we ended up here

 

[Rus121]

Any thoughts on automatic climate control? Seems plausible to have perfect conditions for your perfect space.

V. Interesting thread BTW.

 

[DRD]

I am planning to have a single storage heater in each room. Set this to a cool temperature but enough to keep the games free from condensation and the risk of breaking brittle plastics

The pin shed can generate extra heat if need be by running the games. The office will also get a fan heater.

I know that storage heaters have a bad rep. But, and this is critical, IFF the room is well insulated they work just fine

The cheapest storage heaters take in a fixed charge every night - you set this. You have to guess how cold it might be. So they accept the same charge no matter how cold or warm the prevailing temperature actually is.

The next models up vary the charge according to the ambient temperature. I am getting these.

If you keep them to 3kw you can run them off the ring main using wall mounted timers.

There are much more expensive storage heaters with a daytime supply too. These might have a fan heater built in. Or might do a top up day charge. For me this in unnecessary if the room is well insulated. And particularly unnecessary in these occasional use rooms.

 

[Calimori]

Love these shed builds.
I use Genius Home as a whole house heating control system. My cabin has three electric heaters run managed by the system and the cabin has a sensor to measure heat and movement. Each of the three heaters has a temperature to activate on, this regulates the temperature during the night an minimises electricity. Then the days I know I am going to work in the cabin, the temperature is preset to comfortable. You could also use these to manage the timing for the heaters working, not based on a temperature. I think 3kw is the max draw for these 'internet of things' sockets.
The motion sensor part sends a message to another system to let me know if anyone is in the cabin, but recently I fitted CCTV with temperature and motion sensing so double up that everything is working. Blinds and an alarm sensor finish off the set-up.

 

[Wayne J]

The guy at the stone yard advised me that all stone goes the same colour in the end (dirty) so unless you regularly power wash it, you might as well go for cheaper stuff.

Be very careful when powerwashing, if you take the top (protective/finished) layer off the stone it simply allows moisture in quicker thus moss and lichen to grow quicker and you'll end up having to powerwash it every fortnight just to keep it anything like clean and not slippy.

Best bet is to treat it with a good stone sealant at the earliest possibility.

 

[Wayne J]

You can put all that stuff on it but and if it was me I would bypass the lot and cut a hole in the roof or side of shed. Take about 30 secs with a skill saw.....seen it done in petrol stations.....

Alarm it and cameras.....fact is someone has to turn up with vehicle/s to carry the things out....tbh...there are easier crimes.....like selling overpriced pins that don't exist to unsuspecting people on eBay........anyone trying to take your collection in reality are doing it to order or professional, and they are going to get them no matter what you do.....

.........alternatively put a little chef sign outside it...no f!!ker would be seen dead walking into one of them......

Ps...nice build...total overkill but certainly doing it properly!

Exactly this. There's little chance of a machine being stolen. We all know how much of a pain in the ar$e it is to set down and load up a machine at the best of times.
Your local hoodlum isn't going to being stealing one. The chances are he'd try and sell it on here anyway.

The security will certainly deter anyone trying to break in and make off with any IT equipment stored in the office, but if someone is intent on breaking in - they will.
Just like if someone is intent on assassinating someone they will - the reason bodyguards surround the President, or whoever, is not just to stop the attack, it's to take the bullet instead.

 

[Deleted member 2463]

Any thoughts on automatic climate control? Seems plausible to have perfect conditions for your perfect space.

V. Interesting thread BTW.

I have that in my current shed (and in my house) detects when someone is in the room and adjusts for when that happens and has outside temp input which means when i go into my shed on a hot day the AC will fire up and when it detects nobody is in my shed and is of a certain timeframe goes into no lower than 14C mode.

Also has some timed overrides so heated floor comes on in the morning if the temp outside is less than X. Takes time to tune it but its a great feature.

 

[Paul]

Any thoughts on automatic climate control? Seems plausible to have perfect conditions for your perfect space.

V. Interesting thread BTW.

Aircon. Decent one (hitachi) split unit, 12000btu, heating and cooling.. £450. Ultra efficient heating in winter, complete with de-humidification...

 

[DRD]

@Paul

How does the winter heating thing work pls? Is it on a timer?

Isn't all electric heating equally efficient ? I thought it was just a case of using cheaper night time power (as storage heaters do) versus using regularly priced daytime power ?

 

[Deleted member 2463]

in my view air systems are more efficient especially in a well insulated room; as the heat is on almost instantly and when it shuts down you don't lose the heat. My system in my current shed is Hitachi and its has full timer set up or you can simply put it on away mode and set it to the lowest temp you want and then just turn it on when you are in the room either heat or cool.

 

[Paul]

@DRD
Mine is Wifi controlled.... can change the temp from anywhere in the world that has internet connectivity. Set it to a temp and it will maintain it...

As for if they are Economical... Most of the modern units are Inverter type.... Which means that they can be more accurately controlled, and they speed up and down depending on the demand. Always Underspec an aircon (slightly) - They are more efficient when under load.. And they have an eco mode for when on tickover..

Heat Pumps

Heating at home accounts for more than 60 per cent of a home's energy cost which makes them the best place to look for savings with spiraling energy cost.
Conventional Electrical Heating
Some conventional electrical heating can be 100 per cent efficient. If you put one kilowatt of electricity into an electric heater, you get one kilowatt of heat out. So, as long as the heat isn't being wasted, you may assume the only way to make savings is to turn the heater down.
Heat Pump v Conventional Electrical Heating
With heat pump air conditioning, as an alternative form of electrical heating, it can give you more than 3 times the efficiency of a conventional electrical heating. This means, if you put one kilowatt of electricity into a heat pump, you get at least 3 kilowatt of heat out.
Inverter Heat Pump
Even better is inverter air conditioning with heat pump which pumps out over three times more energy than the traditional heat pumps, in the form of heat, than they consume. Impossible? Not at all. The pump simply transfers the heat from somewhere else. They pump warm air from the air outside into the house - hence the term 'heat pump'.
How Does a Heat Pump Work
Conventional heaters power is converted into heat whilst heat pumps power the pump that circulates the liquid through the system. It works the same way as your refrigerator. The heat pump in your fridge takes the warm air from inside the fridge and releases it outside which is why the back of your fridge is warm. And it continues to work even when the inside is colder than the outside.

The heat pump air conditioning warms the home the same way. Even on cold days, the heat pump can extract warm air from the cold air outside and transfer it into a heated room, just as your fridge keeps extracting heat from your freezer even when it's below zero. The heat pump can still warm your home when the air outside is at zero degree.
Heat Pump also an Air Conditioning
As if that isn’t enough, heat pumps can be ‘reversed’ to provide cooling on hot days in the summer. Say air conditioning to most people and they will think of big noisy boxes, but they are a thing of the past. A modern inverter air conditioning runs as quietly as a desktop fan. At as low as 28 decibels, it's quiet enough to hear a pin drop.
Cost of Heat Pumps
Heat pump uses electricity needed to run a one-bar heater and converts it into the heat output of a four-bar heater. Therefore the running cost is less than half that of gas or traditional electric heating.

Heat pumps cost more to install than conventional electric heaters but they pay for themselves with running costs that are about half those of gas or electric heating and less than a fifth of an LPG heater. Heating in winter, cooling in summer, they also filter the air to remove irritants like pollen and dust,- and they work as dehumidifiers as well. You can save on costs of buying several different units, making a domestic heat pump air-conditioner a very cost effective package during the credit crunch.
Heat pumps’ impact on the environment
The heat pump is also less harmful to the environment. It doesn't produce any carbon dioxide emissions that contribute to global warming. Carbon dioxide and other gas and water vapour emissions are often regarded as a major drawback of solid fuel and gas heating.

 

[DRD]

Building the wood frame

The footplate is screwed to the engineering bricks, with a plastic damp course in between



The 4x2 cls worked out at 95mm by 45mm which is pretty good. This was made into ladders with a mid level noggin. Then the OSB3 board, with a 2mm gap between the sheets to allow for movement. The joins fall on vertical sections of 4x2 , so the thing is pretty air tight


Ordered the roof trusses today. A big part of the cost is delivery. A flat roof would have been much cheaper

 

[Rus121]

Aircon. Decent one (hitachi) split unit, 12000btu, heating and cooling.. £450. Ultra efficient heating in winter, complete with de-humidification...

They are great for the winter i agree, but summertime hotness could bring a massive leccy bill if on all day every day.

I often wonder about using a large extraction fan to replace the air in the room every hour or so, filtered and controlled thermostatically of course. Must be cheaper than running aircon all summer?

Of course i know sweet FA about building things like this so my thoughts may be just bunk ideas but anyone else thought about this?

 

[Paul]

They are great for the winter i agree, but summertime hotness could bring a massive leccy bill if on all day every day.

Doesnt work that way though.... It costs to bring the Temps down. Maintaining them is cheaper as it just pulses on and off when needed to maintain. You find that if you have decent insulation it takes until 3pm to warm up anyhow - so if you work out the best temp to start it up then it can just maintain that temp..

It's like the big heating debate... Some say that it is actually cheaper to keep your heating set to a specific temp 24/7 through the winter, since you dont have to heat a house from cold every day...which is where most of the energy goes...

An extraction fan will only cool to the Temps outside... which if 25C is pointless.. and an extraction fan in the winter would probably do more damage than good, since it would drag in all the Wet cold air from outside

 

[Julian]

Awesome build, soon to be full of machines, I can not wait to see it finished.

 

[DRD]

The roof trusses arrived today. About 650 inc vat. They are held together with these little nail plates. Like all modern building techniques, these rely on a carefully built total structure as opposed to physically strong individual components





The wooden walls are ready to go up, so fingers crossed - this lot should all be erected tomorrow



Foreman cat, keeping his eyes on things

 

[mufcmufc]

A group of men on a niche Internet forum are now awaiting tomorrow's erection pictures

 

[DRD]

Got the walls up.

The teleporter proved invaluable again. The blue cover is the breathable membrane, the light patch in the middle will be the double french doors into the pinball room.


Pinball room.


Looks like it will come in about 4.9m by 4.75m which is just wide enough for my planned layout. I/ the guy that did the plans had underestimated the thickness of the walls. I had put in a bit of a contingency, but this is tighter than I would have liked. 4.8m by 4.8m was my minimum size really. But 4.75 is big enough to remove the glass on games 1,2 and 5,6 without needing to move 7 and 10

1.....2.....3.....4.....5.....6...

7.... ------------- 10.....
8.... ------------- 11.....
9.... -------------- 12.......

I do not need to do this, but I could gain a bit of additional space by putting banzai run in berth 9 as it has a narrow backbox. I could also put bally ss games in berths 5 and 6 as they require less space to remove the playfield glasses.

Per the plans the walls were 10cm, giving me an original planned pinball room of 5.0m by 4.9m but in reality ...

95mm wood frame
18mm osb3 on the outside
25mm tile lats
12mm hardieplank (6mm thick but with overlapping planks)
15mm plasterboard and plaster

Plus 25mm of internal celotex, a suggestion made by the buildings inspector to deal with the wood frame beng colder than the celotex it conceals.

About 190mm in total

The pinball room has a 1.8m opening for french doors. When you go above 1.8m you start to get problems, the weight of the glass begins to worry double glazing guys. Note the strengthening around the wood frame. This has double 6x2 cls acting as a lintel





The internal door frame is being sized for a 2040 by 926 fire door, so it has some weight. The gap is so wide as I am going for a "pocket door". These are posh sliding doors that retract into the stud wall. They do not have a lower track to trip over/ damage with ypur trolley. The upper track will take 120kg. These guys have been in business for years, the product is uk manufactured. You can use any door you like. I am not buying the full kit. The full kit is designed to make it easy to install the plasterboard. As we are building from scratch and are governed by 95mm cls studs, I have gone for the bare minimum, the cost of the hidden internals and handles is just over £100.

http://www.portman-pocketdoors.co.uk/kit/standard-kits

This is the office, which will have a 1.2m by 1.2m window looking onto the garden. Plus the side door which is about 3m from our back door along the new path. The membrane on the internal wall in obviously unnecessary, but was just put there to keep it dry today.

The floor will have 75mm celotex plus 75mm screed applied in the future.

This thing will obscure our garden nicely from the road

 

[DRD]

Half of the roof trusses went up today ......

 

[Sounduser]

Blimey. Are you moving in?

 

[DRD]

The roof trusses are all up.

The covered walkway viewed from our back door, this will also act as a sun visor and rain canopy above the french windows and the office window. Thanks to @newdos and the others on here for sharing their builds as they gave me this idea.

My building inspector had a moment of concern today, thinking we would need columns to support it. But we pointed out that this canopy is a proper cantilever design, sharing the spec. So there is no need for columns. All ok again.





I wanted a flat roof, but I was advised to go for pitched as I am in a wretched conservation area. This probably added the thick end of £1,000 to the cost. Roof trusses, more celotex, more rubber, more osb3. But there we are. The 20 degree pitch is more than enough.

You can see the cantilever thing at the bottom right of the roof. The bottom right of the triangle rests on the wall with the patio door in it