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Machine prices

Tucks said:


Electric Porsche price crash!
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That guy seems like a bit of a crank to me, video title says lost £11k overnight but when he goes through the valuations the October valuation was 3 to 4 weeks ago. Hes also using the webuyanycar site to get a valuation, if hes putting the reg in they are probably lowering the offer price based on him checking all the time and thinking he's desperate.

Also what happened to the adage that you lost 30% of the cars value when you drove it away from the garage on day 1.

He says he bought it 2 years ago for 120K, but the starting price for a Taycan is currently £80k, the cheapest 2 year old taycan on Autotrader for Private sale is £57K.
 
Cars are very difficult to value, as so few are actually 'bought' these days. I believe it's now down to around 9% that are actually purchased / owned outright, the rest are on finance of some sort or other.

So these people on PCP deals actually own nothing but debt, and it's the car manufacturers who have to devalue the vehicles so that once they have you in the web of debt they can afford to keep you there indefinitely.

Cars don't drop in value by 30% anymore because they were overvalued when people actually used to buy them outright, now they have to lower the prices so that people can afford the repayments, if they don't do that nothing will move off the forecourt. it's the manufacturers propping up the whole system that's preventing it collapsing, so the margins are now tighter than ever and they make money on the finance, not the sale. That's why they are offering huge discounts but only on the PCP purchase, as they get it back eventually via their own financing branch. Cash buyers can take advantage of this but need to be aware of how best to work it.

Interest rate rises and spiralling debt will only fuel this scenario further. Where people were once paying £500-1000 a month on a car deal, it's now going on the mortgage, suspect a lot of cars are going back as families drop down to one car, devaluing them further.
 
The guy is probably right. Last time the gubberment fooled me was "Buy a Diesel, it's great!"

Fool me once and all that.
 
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Tucks said:
Insurance is through the roof. Someone Tesla insurance went from £1k p/a to a £9k renewal quote. Crazy
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Yes for tesla but not for other electric vehicles. Tesla prioritise parts for building new cars rather than fixing old ones so if your tesla needs a part you can be waiting months whilst the insurers provides you with an equivalent vehicle to drive which costs a fortune. Hence high price for Tesla insurance.

My ev insurance went down by a few quid this year. Not a Tesla.
 
ian866 said:
Doesn't surprise me the way they light up !
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If you're referring to them setting on fire than I think thats wrong, Im pretty sure some places have done studies on that and found that they are no more or even less likely to set on fire than petrol cars, it just seems that way in the news as a petrol car settings on fire isnt as news worthy as a Tesla so you dont hear about it as often.
 
Fantazia2 said:
If you're referring to them setting on fire than I think thats wrong, Im pretty sure some places have done studies on that and found that they are no more or even less likely to set on fire than petrol cars, it just seems that way in the news as a petrol car settings on fire isnt as news worthy as a Tesla so you dont hear about it as often.
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Agreed - there is so much rubbish written in the press about EVs clearly by people who have never owned and probably never driven one and want to hold on to their ICE cars. Including this d1ck who buys a top of the range £120K Porsche Taycan loads it up with expensive extras and takes close to 100% financing on it and then wonders why its cost him so much money.

I expect much of the negative press is indirectly sponsored by the oil industry holding out for putting off the inevitable.

First Hybrid 2010. Second in 2013. Plug in hybrid 2016. Full electric 2019. 2nd full electric 2022. Now on my 5th EV and the 6th will arrive in 2025 and will be full EV. And I was a petrolhead once.
 
I’m on my 2nd EV the first one was a Mitsubishi Phev I had 7yr and it still drove 20mi on pure electric when I sold it for a whopping 10.5k.
My new car a Kia EV6 has been a total dream. it comes with 7yr warranty and 100,000 on the batteries.
Never been a petrol head in fact the opposite as I prefer my thrills on a Motorbike. That said my new car can pull your arms out of the socket in sport mode and god forbid any boy racers thinking they up for it.
Price wise I buy my cars outright and use the warranty to dictate when to sell and although EV is probably not the future it’s definitely the way to go for certain people like myself.
9p per KW overnight charge on Octopus tops up my car and house battery. Compound this awith my solar panels and my monthly bills have been less than the daily rate of 55p.
 
EVs will be dead in a few years. Some manufacturers have stopped making then already. Mate is a second hand car dealer and EVs are all that's left at the end of the auctions as nobody wants them.

Insurance is generally higher because insurance companies are writing then off even after a small knock because they're too scared of any liability from battery damage.
 
Jason Catrine said:
Did the price of £/$ not crash between that period though so thats why prices here went nuts? They've just not calmed down again yet, but I assume they will now come down, which Phil is doing with his recent offers to us lot. I'm still holding out a glimmer of hope for CCr at 2022 prices!
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Many things have tanked the gbp brexit
$147 day before brexit $1.16 morning after
Then we had the great 8 weeks Tory prime minister liz truss who nearly bankrupted the Uk brought the £ down to $1.06 it’s never really recovered much over $1.20 since
 
I’ve never really given a **** about what I drive.
Joined the EV club a year ago. Some good things about it, some bad.
Guess it all really depends on your lifestyle. If you have a drive and do local trips EVs are the way to go.
As I’m in a terrace charging is a PITA but it’s slowly getting better. Southwark have loads of chargers on every road. Lewisham is way behind 🤬
Doubt I’ll ever go back to petrol but you 100% need to be able to use rapid chargers if you do any distance.
There’s lot of misinformation. Look how desperate people were to blame the fire at Luton airport on an EV.

There’s enough to criticise regarding charge times and range without resorting to scare tactics and general OTT bull**** stories.

Wasn’t pleased with the huge price hikes in insurance for the car or the house this year 🤬

Building work has also gone up by 100% since 2019. Cheapest quote we can now get for a small front garden and outside steps is now north of 40k 😱.
 
Don’t know if this is relevant to pricing trends.
I get market watch emails from pinside (must have inadvertently ticked a box)
Regarding Stranger Things.
The drop from pre rerelease to now is astounding and I think really shows how greed can set in when there’s perceived/real scarcity!
Before premiums were advertised for upto $15000 and pro’s around $9000
Now….. see below!
 

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I'm not subscribing to the "part costs are still crazy" debate..

You can buy 18 top drawer Samsung washing machines for price of a Stern LE
Split those parts down and compare

The grey watch market has come down big time too. People have lost tens of thousands after believing the silly hype.
 
Did the fire brigade change their statement then as everything I saw from them said it was a diesel and not a hybrid or electric?
 
Just been having a dig around the net. Can’t find one legit source saying it was a hybrid. Lots of “experts” on Twitter/Facebook claiming it’s a cover up but no source I would trust.
Happy to be proved wrong but there is 100% a group of people who bring out the EVs go on fire as if it happens all the time and it’s never happened to petrol cars line.
(Admittedly an electric battery fire is pretty bloody impressively hard to put out).

I’ve got memories of people in the early 90s banging on about how dangerous fuel injection cars were and how they explode in crashes. Some people just don’t like change (and I’m probably one of those people)
 
One of my favourite sayings is 'It is worth however much someone is prepared to pay for it'.

Same with a car driving off the forecourt - setting a new pinball machine up - taking a new TV out of the box and setting that up. You will loose initially.

People also fail to realise most warranties now are not transferable. I know certain companies still honour them but most do not.
 
Fantazia2 said:
If you're referring to them setting on fire than I think thats wrong, Im pretty sure some places have done studies on that and found that they are no more or even less likely to set on fire than petrol cars, it just seems that way in the news as a petrol car settings on fire isnt as news worthy as a Tesla so you dont hear about it as often.
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Not so much the fact that they are prone to catch fire, but the issue of when they do you won't put it out.
 
Back on track with Machine Prices!

In this current climate I don’t see any NIB pin holding its own anymore, most Stern Pros are stripped out and I’m sure the BOM is about 2-3k at most.
Fortunately It’s the buyers holding the Aces now and I think we are just seeing the tip of the market recession that will continue to fall into the new year.
Do you buy the next Elwin in the hope it doesn’t devalue as much as Foo and Venom? For me that’s gambling territory not the smart money I keep banging on about.

Take a look at GZ, the market is saturated with them now and no longer gain a lot of interest on the 2nd owner market anymore.

Personally I’m waiting it out till the market flatlines and resets itself which I reckon will be well into next year.
For me personally that means no more deposits on something I haven’t played regardless of how much FOMO I’m suffering with 😂
As for dropping 2k deposit on a pin and having to wait 12mth or more frankly shouldn’t be allowed. A lot can change in 12 mth not just the exchange rate but RL issues not 3rd world ones we all suffer from.
 
I'll be honest I am glad I don't have any machines to sell just now. It's definitely a buyers market now for sure, and I am looking for another. There have been some very very nice machines listed for sale lately, little selling and some still are overpriced from what I see.

Just maybe people are holding out for this next Back to the Future or Jaws, so plenty more Pins to come on the market soon. From what I see I think BTTF and Jaws may even end up like Elvira, in premium and LE only, way out my league. If Stern end up doing them they know especially BTTF would be massive sales for them, prices likely go up even further.

GZ I deliberately held of buying as it's so popular and common it be an easy pick up later, I wouldn't be surprised to see a stock Pro for less than 7k in the new year maybe even before that.

Now's the time to be very very selective what you buy if you can that is.
 
A lot of people are getting stuck with machines they want to flog.

My advice to anyone would be to only buy games you're certain that you wish to keep because you might have them longer than you suspect.

I played Junkyard at the club this week. There would have been a time when I'd have purchased one on a whim with the intention of moving it on in a few months . . . . not anymore.

I have just purchased a Theatre and I've done so because I'm 100% sure I want it and I'll happily keep it for a long time.

I have my eye on two other older titles but I'm being very patient because I've sold games to generate a pin fund so I have to be careful.

I'll still buy NIB, but it will have to be a very special game indeed like Lebowski.
 
I have been in this Pinball hobby for I think 2yrs now. I overpaid for my machine and based on what I sold it for I would have lost £1,200. That is fine, me and kids enjoyed the heck out of it and loved it when it was here, had it for around 15 months, plenty fun and well worth the money.

It's exactly this as you say, people are stuck with machines they want to flog. And I'll bet many are scared to loose a lot on them. This quick flipping things market is gone now where you get your money back, unless you stick with the lower end and don't buy NIB. Even those buying a used 3k machine many people will want their money back even after owing it for a year, see it all the time in for sale ads, total madness.

Things will flatline a little in the used market but the NIB market is buggered now big time, make sure you buy the machine you want if you go that route.

Very nice @Gonzo I think I know the Theatre you went for, buy what you really really want. If you had to lose a bit on what you had so be it, buy what you want, nostalgia will always play a part in some older machines and thats a good thing as they don't make them like that anymore.

Special games like Lebowski and anything from CGC are the way forward I think if go the NIB route, but again be sure, very, very sure it's a keeper and a classic keeper.
 
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Shouldn't all this lot be in the official pricing thread (well, maybe not the stuff about electric car prices...) - it seems to duplicate that thread's purpose?
 
Paul said:
The official pricing thread is for people to ask for the price on something. This is a discussion about prices in general. Two different things in my eyes.
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Sorry, I meant the 'moans about pricing' thread rather than asking for price estimates
 
JT. said:
Sorry, I meant the 'moans about pricing' thread rather than asking for price estimates
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I don't think anyone is moaning on this thread. Personally I see it as a good thing that the ridiculous pricing due to shortages over the covid times are over. Whether that's for pinball, cars,watches, or any other consumer good. Being able to buy something new and sell it on used at a profit is not normal.
 
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