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I think I'm done buying used

I'm a bit amused at old timers grumping about prices... If you have owned pins for a long time they will have appreciated significantly. We all know the classics sold for less than a grand back in the day. No doubt some people's collections are worth a lot more today than what they cost.

There are several collectors (and businesses) in the country with >100 machines, most of them tombstoned of course. Storage units, houses, churches, etc. full of pins. No one wants to moan about that?

Unless some of these hoarders start selling their machines the market won't go down. Supply and demand...

Even the small timers don't want to sell their "keepers" because they worry they'll never find them again. Once again, reducing market supply.

I'm just happy to enjoy a game, fix/tweak whatever needs doing, then sell for +/- what I paid. Recent example the Oktoberfest at pinball office I sold for 5400 same as what I paid Carl for it. I did spend a few evenings taking the bar apart and £20 to the local welder to fix that, but also had fun playing it so I'm happy.

No doubt some people are buying and selling machines trying to make a quick profit and that's a shame. More transparency on sale prices definitely helps if people would be willing to do so...
 
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Sven Normansson said:
The point I'm making is there is little point buying used when they are not a lot cheaper than new.
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Do you mean that, for the same price, you get more enjoyment out of a new game (better value) ? Fair point (and I agree) but subjective nonetheless.

A new pin is also more likely to depreciate (NIB tax) whereas an old one will hold its value.

Ultimately the age of a pin doesn't matter all that much in the long run. Average naughties sterns are much cheaper than many 90s wms.
 
I don't see why prices of used pins will go down, stern wont drop the price of new, the American market is to blame for it, the auction of all the games from that museum as Tod mentioned in the chinwag, its a knock on effect, money hungry companies pushing up the price of circuit boards, wood, glass, pinballs, wires etc........,

People are paying these prices in America and here and elsewhere I would guess for new, all the time stern are backlogged with orders they don't need to drop the prices, they don't even need to do a sale, people are fickle, each time a new title is announced they will order a pin straight away because they know there will be a que, which then backlogs stern/ap/jjp, these companies have two choices, stop production of other ranges of pins (which are on back order) to make the new announced game, making the back logged games hard to get hold of (fewer numbers on market), pushing up second hand prices or
increase factory size, staffing, raw material stock, increasing over heads which decreases profit meaning prices will rise, and in turn increases second hand prices.

this is why I don't see prices dropping, I believe it to be the same with most things, second hand cars are a prime example, I paid £3k for 04' civic type r one year ago, just sold for £5k, joe blogs I sold that to isn't going to want to sell it for £3k in a year, neither will his mate Winston for example.

Itch
 
Fubar said:
Do you mean that, for the same price, you get more enjoyment out of a new game (better value) ? Fair point (and I agree) but subjective nonetheless.

A new pin is also more likely to depreciate (NIB tax) whereas an old one will hold its value.

Ultimately the age of a pin doesn't matter all that much in the long run. Average naughties sterns are much cheaper than many 90s wms.
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Between myself and 2 others, we've had nearly every Stern (except NBA, LZ & WWF) and nearly every WPC, I had all the 81 ballys etc. There is nothing used that I have a burning need for.
Yes, you'll lose reselling a NIB with very few exceptions but say a grand more for a NIB makes it more attractive than a used title. I'd obviously buy say a lightly used GZ over a nib as that makes sense but a Shadow (for instance) isn't worth it to me anymore at the price they're going for.
 
Sven Normansson said:
nearly every Stern (except NBA, LZ & WWF) and nearly every WPC, I had all the 81 ballys etc.
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That's exceptional and most of us can only dream of being able to say the same thing one day 😅 And would most likely come to the same conclusion. Any game becomes repetitive after a while and imho "keepers" are not a thing.
 
Sven Normansson said:
Between myself and 2 others, we've had nearly every Stern (except NBA, LZ & WWF) and nearly every WPC, I had all the 81 ballys etc. There is nothing used that I have a burning need for.
Yes, you'll lose reselling a NIB with very few exceptions but say a grand more for a NIB makes it more attractive than a used title. I'd obviously buy say a lightly used GZ over a nib as that makes sense but a Shadow (for instance) isn't worth it to me anymore at the price they're going for.
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Why is a grand more for a NIB more attractive than used when you’ve just said you’ll lose money when you sell it?? A used one will cost less, be dialled in and sell for what you paid.
 
Some of us still want to buy used as they haven't owned every pin in the world. Sounds like theres nothing left for you to buy apart from NIB :)

As a noob I am faced with the prices as they are now with no historic ownership to use as comparables so our lot is to navigate the bull**** and build relationships with the more experienced among us in the hopes of not getting ripped off. Some may call it FOMO but for me its just the want to progress with a new hobby/passion and something I'm having a lot of fun with.
 
I went for a NIB for my first pin for the warranty, knowing absolutely nothing about pinball machines, the warranty was worth something to me. My 2nd pin I picked up from the forum as I was a little more confident I could sort some issues if it had any. The warranties are non-transferable so they're a portion of that NIB tax. If there was no warranty or very short warranty I wouldn't be bothered about having a NIB just because it was new. It was nice to get the used TMNT, have a bunch of mods on it already and know that it didn't lose £1000 as soon as I bought it.

I ordered a NIB DP pro back in August because I hadn't seen many for sale on the forum and everything was selling so fast, even if one came up I was unlikely to see it first. Since then 2 were advertised that I could have grabbed, I would have been very happy with either of them. Buying NIB atm can be frustrating, waiting for production and then seeing a used one come up at a price you'd be fine with.

Ideally I'd buy all my pins lightly used with a few mods already added for cheaper than NIB but I won't always be the fastest to see the adverts. I maybe need to use the wanted ads more in the future.
 
Alpha1 said:
I just picked up a BM'66 for 5k+vat.

Deals are out there. Does that mean that's what they're worth? Probably not.

Collectors will always have a price range for games and most of us have been in the hobby long enough to know if you're selling most people want the top of that range and if you're buying the bottom end!
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Dafuq
 
Sako-TRG said:
So whats this big prediction in April/May buzzing around?
Prices are going one way.... up...lol
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Just people writing something may be happening in april/may is enough to make something happen, just look at BP, they mention we may be a little short of fuel, they wasn't and had a load of crap fuel to get rid of, look how we all reacted,
 
Sako-TRG said:
BM66 for that price, wonder what the condition was.
Mentioned + VAT
Most likely came from an arcade or bingo hall beat to sh^t
Oh, I forgot, routed pins are same as HUO apparently 🙄
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I used to think that but my JP2 was in an arcade and it plays and looks perfect (once I changed coil stops and gave it a clean)
 
M4carp said:
I had cancer at 39 and told 50/50 so you never know!
Mine would be a lot bigger if I sold my games but come April they could be half price😂
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Glad you made it buddy!

Will be interesting what effect the energy crises has on the pinball market later in the year.
 
I've stopped buying both NIB and used. Every Pin I've owned I've slowly lost interest in it after a few months and can't see that changing no matter what Pin I get in the house.

A few years ago you could buy a used Pin for a reasonable price, play it for a few months, sell it for near what you bought it for then pick up something else easily. In today's market that just isn't possible any more.

With rising prices and shortages I feel a slight sense of relief I no longer have to concern myself with it.

I've filled the space with a driving/racing cockpit which I'm getting far more use out of, and I've still got my VPin for my pinball fix.
 
Sako-TRG said:
BM66 for that price, wonder what the condition was.
Mentioned + VAT
Most likely came from an arcade or bingo hall beat to sh^t
Oh, I forgot, routed pins are same as HUO apparently 🙄
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The condition is amazing. As good as HUO. Other than a lockbar which I just need a new coin door for.

Wouldn't have been interested otherwise :)
 
The other interesting thing I found about second hand HUO pins is all these people that tell you how many plays the game has had. It's pointless.

What's better

A game that has has 4300 plays with an average game time of 2 minutes.

The same game that has 850 plays with an average game time of 18 minutes.

143 hours versus 255.

I think any second hand game that wants to mention plays should mention games and average game time.
 
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