Energy prices - gone nuts.

[russdx1]

I nearly lost power to my gamesroom and outbuilding, planting some leylandii’s around the perimeter and forgot about a 100amp cable I laid 22 years ago.
Made of good stuff because I thought it was a rock and I was jumping on the SS spade with nearly 18 stone of me, thanks Southern Electric great cable

Those armored cables are near impossible to cut through with a spade

 

[M4carp]

Those armored cables are near impossible to cut through with a spade

Never tried with a spade before for some reason but a hacksaw I can recommend

 

[Fantazia2]

I'm not sure how it'll work for me as my sockets are hidden behind the machines. I suppose I could use an extension just to try it.

You can Smart Sockets with Energy monitoring built into them so you could hide them behind the cabs and use an app on your phone.

Energy Monitoring Wi-Fi Plug, Tapo P110

Intelligent Energy Monitoring At Your Fingertips Smart Wi-Fi Socket, Energy Monitoring Tapo P110 Voice Control Schedule & Timer Remote Control Energy Monitoring Group Control Local Control Away Mode Share to Family Flame-Retardant Easy Setup Remote Control Local Control Smart Control from your...

ukstore.tp-link.com

I have some of the none energy montoring ones and they work quite well, you can schedule them to come on and off as set times, or at sunset for lamps etc. Only issue Ive had with them is they only work on 2.4Ghz wireless networks so can be tricky to setup on normal home routers without turning the 5Ghz WiFi off, luckily for me I have some decent APs in my house so just setup a separate 2.4GHz only network for them.
But once connected you can even check their state and turn them on/off when away from home.

 

[David_Vi]

Thanks for the recommendation @Fantazia2 !

I grabbed one of the tapo smart plugs. Nice to have a smart plug to try as I intend to change the sockets in the pin room to smart ones when it's done.

My only gripe is the graph is on such a big scale it's kinda useless for testing pinball unless you want to see it hourly and leave them on for hours.
Plus the real-time ussage doesn't appear to update unless you go in and out of the pages on the app.

Still I got some interesting figures.

Diner is 50/50 led and incandescent.
In attract it sits around 160w.
While playing it varies but seems to stick around 200w

Roadshow is all LED ( exceptone incandescent)
100w attract
100w-160w playing

Bk2k all incandescents except four LEDs in gi.
200w attract
270w playing

FT, all led but 2smd in GI. It's very bright.
100-130w in attract

Struggled to get a good playing figure but I think similar to Road Show.

So have to work out the hourly price for Bk2k and try it on others

 

[Asiapinball]

So if you play for 2 hours a day and pay 30p a unit thats 17p a day provided you don't leave the machines on in attract mode. That's £60 a year. Half that for LEDs. I don't think many will be cutting back their playing time on account of electric cost.

 

[David_Vi]

I wish I could have tested the hot tub but it's wired straight in and it's off now. I think that might be a big part of my bill

 

[Deleted member 2463]

So if you play for 2 hours a day and pay 30p a unit thats 17p a day provided you don't leave the machines on in attract mode. That's £60 a year. Half that for LEDs. I don't think many will be cutting back their playing time on account of electric cost.

for sure, its more if you like to leave them on. Especially incandescents. I've taken out shares @strobey 's electricity company

 

[russdx1]

I wish I could have tested the hot tub but it's wired straight in and it's off now. I think that might be a big part of my bill

100% my parents turned theres off and halved there electric

 

[Deleted member 2463]

also hope you've got a fixed rate mortgage for 3 years.

 

[russdx1]

also hope you've got a fixed rate mortgage for 3 years.

Fixed mine for 2 years at 1% in feb, gonna be fun when that expires.

 

[strobey]

for sure, its more if you like to leave them on. Especially incandescents. I've taken out shares @strobey 's electricity company

At least that will cover your MMr loss!!

 

[David_Vi]

My mortgage is up in July
Currently on 1.84% which seemed good. Daaaamn

 

[Calimori]

CFTBL, original condition with incandescent bulbs. ~ £0.10 a hour at £0.29p a kW. Measured on the circuit for 5 minutes. It didn’t really fluctuate as my daughter played. Flippers may have been used more than necessary as is the way with the kids.

I use to put a lot more than 10p into playing them before I owned them at home.

 

[Rob zombie]

Not really much point worrying about the difference between bulbs in a pinball machine. That really is 1st World Problems.

 

[s000m]

So just got off the phone with my Solar Provider he was after referance on the install which I was happy to provide.

He thinks that within 2 years we might hit £1 a KW!

God I hope he's wrong imagine people on the breadline paying that much it would be insane but then it doesn't seem too unrealistic given how prices will go up again in October...

 

[russdx1]

So just got off the phone with my Solar Provider he was after referance on the install which I was happy to provide.

He thinks that within 2 years we might hit £1 a KW!

God I hope he's wrong imagine people on the breadline paying that much it would be insane but then it doesn't seem too unrealistic given how prices will go up again in October...

That's mental the 35% or what ever it is now increase in Oct is gonna sting enough!
Having my solar / bat installed on May 3rd hopefully wont be so reliant on the grid. Looking forward to seeing how it performs.

 

[PAX]

That's mental the 35% or what ever it is now increase in Oct is gonna sting enough!
Having my solar / bat installed on May 3rd hopefully wont be so reliant on the grid. Looking forward to seeing how it performs.

Getting a 4.8Kw battery system installed next week. Already have solar (10 years) and the local council ran a scheme to sign up people to solar / battery at a discount. Works out at just over 3k for what I'm getting, think that's pretty reasonable.
Did a bit of research into battery performance and was surprised at how unreliable a lot of batteries were, fortunately the ones we're having came out in the top three when tested.
We are pretty frugal with our electricity usage and hopefully this will help a bit more. Think I'm pretty much at the limit as to what I can do to make any further savings unless anyone has any other ideas? (200yr old detached, solid flint walled property doesn't have much scope for efficiency savings)

 

[Arv]

Are your internal walls plastered with lime or modern ****e?

 

[russdx1]

Getting a 4.8Kw battery system installed next week. Already have solar (10 years) and the local council ran a scheme to sign up people to solar / battery at a discount. Works out at just over 3k for what I'm getting, think that's pretty reasonable.
Did a bit of research into battery performance and was surprised at how unreliable a lot of batteries were, fortunately the ones we're having came out in the top three when tested.
We are pretty frugal with our electricity usage and hopefully this will help a bit more. Think I'm pretty much at the limit as to what I can do to make any further savings unless anyone has any other ideas? (200yr old detached, solid flint walled property doesn't have much scope for efficiency savings)

Wow that is super cheap, no grants or schemes in my area sadly so had to pay quite a bit more for my system which is 4.8kw + 5.8kw battery.

 

[crsedgar]

Think I'm pretty much at the limit as to what I can do to make any further savings unless anyone has any other ideas?

That sounds like a good deal on the battery nice one.

If you have a water tank you can buy a diverter (relay) that pushes any units that will be exported to run your immersion saving you gas/electric. You can also replace the water tank with a smart version that provides more energy saving features.

You could also buy more panels if you have space.

There is often more insulation that can be done like line the back of the tiled roof with Kooltherm or something equivalent.

 

[PAX]

That sounds like a good deal on the battery nice one.

If you have a water tank you can buy a diverter (relay) that pushes any units that will be exported to run your immersion saving you gas/electric. You can also replace the water tank with a smart version that provides more energy saving features.

You could also buy more panels if you have space.
There is often more insulation that can be done like line the back of the tiled roof with Kooltherm or something equivalent.

Cheers, it does look like a good deal.

They did initially offer a diverter for the immersion heater but when they came and did the survey they'd stopped doing them as they kept tripping the main fuse

May well look into a more efficient tank.

No more space for panels on the house roof but garage is a possibility.

Got about 200 - 250mm loft insulation. Wouldn't be very easy to fit insulation between the rafters as being 200years old they are actually split trunks at fairly random centers and not really a straight one amongst them

 

[Calimori]

We use a plaster called Thermopor which sets like a good old plaster, breathable with some insulation properties. Much better for the house than solid plasterboard but isn’t as good at insulation.

We have a MyEnergi system with a Harvi sensor to detect the excess energy and an Eddi system that plugs into the existing immersion heaters. I bought and fitted the extra relay board so it can heat to a desired temperature digitally. Though this is sadly limited by the immersion heaters having their own inbuilt non digital thermostat.

I generated 20kW from my setup today, put 13.6kW into the battery (topped up, drew down) and had the battery at 100% before evening cooking started.
Our house has used 63.5kW since Monday.
8% from the grid
39% direct from Solar
54% from the battery (charged with solar)

They are an added cost but they really increase the value of the solar generation.

 

[Calimori]

Sorry, my point was meant to be that I am now finding it easy in April, from my 4.2kW array to charge a 13.5kW battery. And then easy to use that through the night and into the next day if it isn’t sunny.

 

[crsedgar]

We use a plaster called Thermopor which sets like a good old plaster, breathable with some insulation properties. Much better for the house than solid plasterboard but isn’t as good at insulation.

We have a MyEnergi system with a Harvi sensor to detect the excess energy and an Eddi system that plugs into the existing immersion heaters. I bought and fitted the extra relay board so it can heat to a desired temperature digitally. Though this is sadly limited by the immersion heaters having their own inbuilt non digital thermostat.

I generated 20kW from my setup today, put 13.6kW into the battery (topped up, drew down) and had the battery at 100% before evening cooking started.
Our house has used 63.5kW since Monday.
8% from the grid
39% direct from Solar
54% from the battery (charged with solar)

They are an added cost but they really increase the value of the solar generation.

That's great news.

I've got an Eddi and Harvi on order.

 

[russdx1]

We use a plaster called Thermopor which sets like a good old plaster, breathable with some insulation properties. Much better for the house than solid plasterboard but isn’t as good at insulation.

We have a MyEnergi system with a Harvi sensor to detect the excess energy and an Eddi system that plugs into the existing immersion heaters. I bought and fitted the extra relay board so it can heat to a desired temperature digitally. Though this is sadly limited by the immersion heaters having their own inbuilt non digital thermostat.

I generated 20kW from my setup today, put 13.6kW into the battery (topped up, drew down) and had the battery at 100% before evening cooking started.
Our house has used 63.5kW since Monday.
8% from the grid
39% direct from Solar
54% from the battery (charged with solar)

They are an added cost but they really increase the value of the solar generation.

8% grid, your living the dream
What percentage grid are you in winter months?

 

[domlouis]

Interested in getting people's view on battery storage for solar PV. We have had solar PV for the past 12 years and were quite happy that the money generated covered the price of gas and electricity up to now (about £1200/year). It is a 4kW system but the roof orientation isn't the best so it probably only generates around 2,500 kWh per year. On a sunny summer day, it will generate 20kWh. On a very dark winter day, it will go down to 1kWh. We haven't got an export meter, so we have no idea how much is exported and how much is used by the house. The house tends to be empty during the day as we both work and the kids are at school. So i expect that our export rate is fairly high.

The latest hikes in energy prices has led us to start contemplating investing in battery storage to reduce the amount we export and maximise the amount we use.

The sort of questions i am asking myself are:

- how difficult is it to retrofit a battery to an existing solar PV installation? Everything i have read so far says that it is straight forward but you would say that if you are trying to sell it to me, wouldn't you?
- what size of battery to go for? I guess it would be ludicrous to go for the maximum daily generation (20 kWh) as this would be expensive and only at maximum efficiency for the few days a year when that amount of energy is generated. What do people go for? Half of the maximum daily generation as this represents a good compromise between cost and utilisation?
- which make/model of battery to go for? Which one to avoid?
- what sort of payback time can one expect when installing a battery storage? I like to make these decisions thinking that one day i will get my money back!

I have a Sunny Beam system so i have reasonably good generation data (per day/per month/per year) to do some calculation if needed. And yes i do like a calculation.

Any advice anyone?

 

[Colywobbles]

I’ve just had a survey for panels and battery.
Panels are 400w Guaranteed 25yr to still be 82.5% efficient. Battery is 11kw and guaranteed 10yr I have researched both and they come out up there with the best available ATM.
Our house is direct south facing and the max array they can fit is 5.6kw due to split roof and non standard shape.
However the guy was realistic on generation figures quoting the fact using everything generated is the way to go and avoid feeding the grid for what equates to about 5p per a KW.
The Rub is the cost at 18k and a 3 mth lead time due to everyone and there dog jumping on board.
As for payback the fact I’m at home all day helps and Big Bertha (laser) runs at around 600w so would be pretty much free anytime during the day throughout the year.
Couple this with the fact we now run an electric car and a full charge is costing around £22 ATM whereas my Zappy can set up eco charging using generated electric only.
I’m mulling the deal over and have yet to sign on the dotted line but it’s probably the way forward with all these hikes.
Also big thx to @Calimori for helping me understand the intricacies better.

 

[Fantazia2]

- how difficult is it to retrofit a battery to an existing solar PV installation? Everything i have read so far says that it is straight forward but you would say that if you are trying to sell it to me, wouldn't you?

I can answer this one, its very easy to add it to pretty much any system.

All thats required is to wire the battery to the inverter, unless its an all in one system then its all done for you, wire the inverter into the mains wiring and then attach a current clamp to the incoming live cable between your meter and consumer unit.

The Inverter then uses the current clamp to see when you are exporting and starts to put power into the battery to try and bring the export down to zero (Depending on config as it can be set to trim so you always export a small amount) and then when it sees you are pulling power from the grid it will start to pull power from the battery and put in the mains until your import goes down to zero.

Things to be aware of is the max charge rate and discharge rate of the inverter and battery, as if the charge rate is lower than your solar produces and self use doesnt max it out then you will still end up exporting some, and the same with the import if your inverter cant produce enough power due to a high load such as a power shower etc.



The same can also be said for Immersion Heater Diverters. For the one I have you wire the main box inbetween the power coming out of the wall and the immersion heater element, and then there is wireless current clamp that you mount as above and then when it sees power being exported it allows a certain amount to always be exported, something like 200w or 300w and then when it sees the export is above that it starts to divert into the heater element and keeps the export around the 200w mark.

This makes it work well with my battery storage as it allows the battery inverter to see export first and start putting it into the battery instead of the wate cylinder and then when the battery is full or Im producing more power than the inverter can put into the battery it will start to put it into the hot water cylinder.

 

[Calimori]

My other thoughts were to get more details on your Generation Payments. Based on how long you have the system, you get paid to generate and to export. If you don't have a meter, then they estimate half your generation is exported. The original Generation payments were pretty high and this should not be affected by a battery but your export payment could if you ever got a smart meter and they realised you were not exported 1/2.
At the moment they assume half is exported so (2500kW x 5p)/2 = £62.5 could be at risk .

As for pay off. That is hard to say without know how much you use, what sort of peak usage you have and your tariff. You indicated that currently your payments cover your gas and electricity bills. But going on capped prices and the expectation that you would have exported 1/2 to the grid, you could keep £362.5 (2500kW x 29p)/2 worth a year. As the cost of 1kW goes up, then the figures all change.

 

[russdx1]

So just got off the phone with my Solar Provider he was after referance on the install which I was happy to provide.

He thinks that within 2 years we might hit £1 a KW!

God I hope he's wrong imagine people on the breadline paying that much it would be insane but then it doesn't seem too unrealistic given how prices will go up again in October...

I was thinking about this, I can’t see it ever hitting £1 a kw, 75% of the county would not be able to pay there bill, I’d be spending like between £10 and £20 a day!!! Gov would have to properly step in if this was to happen.

Only so high it can go before economy completely goes down the toilet.