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Energy prices - gone nuts.

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It's not supposed be. You will own nothing and be happy.

[By 2030] all products will have become services. “I don’t own anything. I don’t own a car. I don’t own a house. I don’t own any appliances or any clothes.” Shopping is a distant memory in the city of 2030, whose inhabitants have cracked clean energy and borrow what they need on demand. It sounds utopian, until she mentions that her every move is tracked and outside the city live swathes of discontents, the ultimate depiction of a society split in two.

Yep, well aware of that objective don't worry. I was lucky enough to have 1984 on the curriculum too. We're already there with software. You can't just buy software these days you have to pay thousands in subscriptions every year. And the rest of it is already done and dusted.
 
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1.65 at our local Tesco that’s gonna be over £100 tank for me, freaking kids can walk to school now Lolol
 
158.9 (Diesel) at the local Costco so filled the misses car up. Keeping my fingers crossed it's about the same when i look to do the same on Wednesday....

Locally around the valleys you're lucky if you can find anything under 169....
 
158.9 (Diesel) at the local Costco so filled the misses car up. Keeping my fingers crossed it's about the same when i look to do the same on Wednesday....

Locally around the valleys you're lucky if you can find anything under 169....
I was using a petrol comparison app. It said the cheapest around here was 153.9 so I drove 3 miles to it. But when I got there it was 159.9 as it hadn't been updated on the app in 4 days....aaaargh!!! And then I also bought their over-priced middle of nowhere booze to add insult to injury.
 
I was using a petrol comparison app. It said the cheapest around here was 153.9 so I drove 3 miles to it. But when I got there it was 159.9 as it hadn't been updated on the app in 4 days....aaaargh!!! And then I also bought their over-priced middle of nowhere booze to add insult to injury.
Plus cost u £5 to drive that extra 3 miles :D
 
I’m still well below what I used to pay for petrol in the past on some cars 😂🤣 so it’s still cheap from my POV.
 
I used to drive 1000 miles per month, now it's more like 1000 miles per year. So can't complain too much. Forecourt prices have started to drop in the US so hopefully they will here too.
 
Oh and it’s going to get MUCH MUCH worse with a sizeable interest rate hike coming…
I remember when it went up to about 15% in the early 90’s, was in my early 20’s with a kid. What a nightmare but just about got through it when people were just handing their keys back.
Hope it doesn’t go up too much otherwise people are going to really struggle and it’s bad enough already☹️
 
I got the specs a bit wrong on the system I was quoted, it was a 5.8kw battery not 4.8

One bit I don’t understand maybe the solar experts can explain is they say this particular battery has only 600 cycles but if it’s being used every night it would be dead in under 2 years? And they are not cheap so would destroy any savings? But they say they last like 10-15 years how is that?

That battery being specced as only having 600 cycles almost sounds like it could be lead acid based, which is usually mentioned as 2 years life of being cycled to 50% depth of discharge.

Lithium Ion seems to have about a life of 10,000 cycles.

A lot of information I see these days is about using Lithium Iron Phosphate Batteries (LiFePo4) which tend to have an estimated life of 4000 to 6000 cycles at 80% depth of discharge. will last a good 10 to 15 years.
You can build a DIY 48v battery using 120Ah cells from Aliexpress for under a grand and that would give a 5.8KWh battery with 4.64KWh of usable storage at 80% Depth of discharge, and then you just need an inverter to connect it to.

Ive become aware of a few things about using cheap Lead Acid vs Lithium in there are a lot of limitations for Lead Acid in terms of both charging and discharging rates and charging efficiencies that I wasnt aware of before starting.

With Lithium batteries you can usually charge them at their recommended rated charge rate for most of the cycle from empty to 95% full with the charge current then dropping down as it heads towards 100% full, and the efficiency of the power going in is high and then you can usually recover a high amount of that stored energy back.

With Lead Acid you can start off with a high charge current going in but as the battery gets charged the amount of current you can put into it starts to fall immediately, which means even if you are producing a lot from solar panels it wont be getting put into batteries and then gets pushed out to the grid if you dont have any devices using it, luckily I have the Immersion heater diverter to make use of this wasted energy, also charging lead acid batteries is very inefficient. But then also when you come to discharge the batteries when demand his higher than your solar production or the suns gone in there is something called Peukerts law to be aware of, basically this amounts to being the faster you discharge the battery the less energy you can recover from it, this is why you see Lead Acid batteries listed with different caapacities based on C ratings.

As an example I have some batteries that are listed as 75Ah at C100 and 60AH at C20, which means if I pulled a current .75 amps from the battery it would last for 100 hours, but then If I instead pulled a current of 3 amps it would only last 20 hours, with a bank of 4 of these running at 48v that would equate to pulling 36 watts for 100 hours for 3.6KWh recovery vs pulling 144 watts for 20 hours for 2.8KWh recovery but you can only use 50% of this in the real world, and then as soon as you starting using more powerfull stuff like a microwave or oven then the recovered amount would drop even further.


Something Ive gotten recently to help see where all my usage goes is this from Amazon.


It has a main current clamp to go on your supply cable and then up to 16 smaller ones that you can use on each of the circuits from your consumer unit to see what it using what either live or historically by minute, hour or day. Its fairly easy to setup but if your not confident with electrics you might need to get someone to install it for you as you need to open the consumer unit to get the clamps in and the unit itself needs tying into the power to both power itself and get voltage information to make the measurement more accurate. You have to register an account with the maker and then it all runs in the cloud and you have an app on your phone and theve just recently added a web console as well.
 
That battery being specced as only having 600 cycles almost sounds like it could be lead acid based, which is usually mentioned as 2 years life of being cycled to 50% depth of discharge.

Lithium Ion seems to have about a life of 10,000 cycles.

A lot of information I see these days is about using Lithium Iron Phosphate Batteries (LiFePo4) which tend to have an estimated life of 4000 to 6000 cycles at 80% depth of discharge. will last a good 10 to 15 years.
You can build a DIY 48v battery using 120Ah cells from Aliexpress for under a grand and that would give a 5.8KWh battery with 4.64KWh of usable storage at 80% Depth of discharge, and then you just need an inverter to connect it to.

Ive become aware of a few things about using cheap Lead Acid vs Lithium in there are a lot of limitations for Lead Acid in terms of both charging and discharging rates and charging efficiencies that I wasnt aware of before starting.

With Lithium batteries you can usually charge them at their recommended rated charge rate for most of the cycle from empty to 95% full with the charge current then dropping down as it heads towards 100% full, and the efficiency of the power going in is high and then you can usually recover a high amount of that stored energy back.

With Lead Acid you can start off with a high charge current going in but as the battery gets charged the amount of current you can put into it starts to fall immediately, which means even if you are producing a lot from solar panels it wont be getting put into batteries and then gets pushed out to the grid if you dont have any devices using it, luckily I have the Immersion heater diverter to make use of this wasted energy, also charging lead acid batteries is very inefficient. But then also when you come to discharge the batteries when demand his higher than your solar production or the suns gone in there is something called Peukerts law to be aware of, basically this amounts to being the faster you discharge the battery the less energy you can recover from it, this is why you see Lead Acid batteries listed with different caapacities based on C ratings.

As an example I have some batteries that are listed as 75Ah at C100 and 60AH at C20, which means if I pulled a current .75 amps from the battery it would last for 100 hours, but then If I instead pulled a current of 3 amps it would only last 20 hours, with a bank of 4 of these running at 48v that would equate to pulling 36 watts for 100 hours for 3.6KWh recovery vs pulling 144 watts for 20 hours for 2.8KWh recovery but you can only use 50% of this in the real world, and then as soon as you starting using more powerfull stuff like a microwave or oven then the recovered amount would drop even further.


Something Ive gotten recently to help see where all my usage goes is this from Amazon.


It has a main current clamp to go on your supply cable and then up to 16 smaller ones that you can use on each of the circuits from your consumer unit to see what it using what either live or historically by minute, hour or day. Its fairly easy to setup but if your not confident with electrics you might need to get someone to install it for you as you need to open the consumer unit to get the clamps in and the unit itself needs tying into the power to both power itself and get voltage information to make the measurement more accurate. You have to register an account with the maker and then it all runs in the cloud and you have an app on your phone and theve just recently added a web console as well.

Yeah sounded bit weird to me I phoned them up and they say its got a 15 year life span, not sure how 600 cycles = 15 year life span though? But they say its all under warranty so i guess if it dies it's on them to replace it?
 
Yeah sounded bit weird to me I phoned them up and they say its got a 15 year life span, not sure how 600 cycles = 15 year life span though? But they say its all under warranty so i guess if it dies it's on them to replace it?
Warranties are all well and good if the company sticks around, but I suspect like a lot of the biomass installers most of these companies have a 5 year lifespan, during which time the directors get very rich, then once new business starts to dry up and warranty claims come in they shut shop and start afresh.
 
@Fantazia2, epic post, very helpful as I try to sort out what is a good direction and the pitfalls.
I was looking at the Emporia Energy kit. My issue now is that I have three apps, all giving a slightly different view. I will ping you a message about what I want if I buy a fourth.
 
@Fantazia2, epic post, very helpful as I try to sort out what is a good direction and the pitfalls.
I was looking at the Emporia Energy kit. My issue now is that I have three apps, all giving a slightly different view. I will ping you a message about what I want if I buy a fourth.
Ive found a couple of limitations with the emporia kit, i had to adjust the factor on the main current clamp as I found after a couple of days that it was over reading based on the main smart reader reading and actual readings, but adjusting did appear to go back and correct the previous days.

Ive also found that the clamp used for solar has to be on its own circuit as currently for mine it shares a power cable with the garage and shed from the consumer unit and it only shows power as going one way, so when Im using power in the garage or shed and its pulling from the grid it adds the power onto the solar power generation and doest subtract it. I will at some point have to run a separate power cable for the solar and battery inverters in the garage.

Im also on two apps myself, the emporia one for main energy usage and a separate one for my solar and battery inverters.
 
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That battery being specced as only having 600 cycles almost sounds like it could be lead acid based, which is usually mentioned as 2 years life of being cycled to 50% depth of discharge.

Lithium Ion seems to have about a life of 10,000 cycles.

A lot of information I see these days is about using Lithium Iron Phosphate Batteries (LiFePo4) which tend to have an estimated life of 4000 to 6000 cycles at 80% depth of discharge. will last a good 10 to 15 years.
You can build a DIY 48v battery using 120Ah cells from Aliexpress for under a grand and that would give a 5.8KWh battery with 4.64KWh of usable storage at 80% Depth of discharge, and then you just need an inverter to connect it to.

Ive become aware of a few things about using cheap Lead Acid vs Lithium in there are a lot of limitations for Lead Acid in terms of both charging and discharging rates and charging efficiencies that I wasnt aware of before starting.

With Lithium batteries you can usually charge them at their recommended rated charge rate for most of the cycle from empty to 95% full with the charge current then dropping down as it heads towards 100% full, and the efficiency of the power going in is high and then you can usually recover a high amount of that stored energy back.

With Lead Acid you can start off with a high charge current going in but as the battery gets charged the amount of current you can put into it starts to fall immediately, which means even if you are producing a lot from solar panels it wont be getting put into batteries and then gets pushed out to the grid if you dont have any devices using it, luckily I have the Immersion heater diverter to make use of this wasted energy, also charging lead acid batteries is very inefficient. But then also when you come to discharge the batteries when demand his higher than your solar production or the suns gone in there is something called Peukerts law to be aware of, basically this amounts to being the faster you discharge the battery the less energy you can recover from it, this is why you see Lead Acid batteries listed with different caapacities based on C ratings.

As an example I have some batteries that are listed as 75Ah at C100 and 60AH at C20, which means if I pulled a current .75 amps from the battery it would last for 100 hours, but then If I instead pulled a current of 3 amps it would only last 20 hours, with a bank of 4 of these running at 48v that would equate to pulling 36 watts for 100 hours for 3.6KWh recovery vs pulling 144 watts for 20 hours for 2.8KWh recovery but you can only use 50% of this in the real world, and then as soon as you starting using more powerfull stuff like a microwave or oven then the recovered amount would drop even further.


Something Ive gotten recently to help see where all my usage goes is this from Amazon.


It has a main current clamp to go on your supply cable and then up to 16 smaller ones that you can use on each of the circuits from your consumer unit to see what it using what either live or historically by minute, hour or day. Its fairly easy to setup but if your not confident with electrics you might need to get someone to install it for you as you need to open the consumer unit to get the clamps in and the unit itself needs tying into the power to both power itself and get voltage information to make the measurement more accurate. You have to register an account with the maker and then it all runs in the cloud and you have an app on your phone and theve just recently added a web console as well.
It was a typo its 6000 cycles not 600 which sounds alot better. They showed me a picture and they looked alot like this so might be these i think
 
And the gov want people to return to the office hahaha good luck with that lol, big chunk of fuel price is various taxes why can’t they remove them help us out a bit.
 
Nice!

Enjoying the EV6? Love my eNiro, and i'm not one to get excited about cars generally.

It's a proper Ronseal machine - does exactly what it says on the tin.
Yeah I’ve been out the loop for a while as my last car lasted 7yr before I decided to trade up. So I’m now spoilt with all the crazy tech in the EV6. Super nice to drive more practical than the Tesla and IMO looks a lot nicer too albeit was more expensive too.
We Kinda got a shock at how much cars are now as we always buy outright and the waiting lists are crazy (son been waiting 9mth for an VW ID4)
Lucky for us it came a month early and we got amazing cash trade in on our old one due to the high demand for 2nd hand cars.
A neighbour got his money back on his gas guzzling merc he bought 2yr ago but went all in on another thinking the same will happen on another 2yr but I’m not so sure.
Buying new now should be at least some form of Hybrid or even pure electric has got to be the way to go.
 
My bro just ordered 2 new Tesla model 3’s, his and hers!
Was asking me about 2 separate chargers, I asked what was the consumption and he said 7.5kw each and I laughed.

Will be good to see what he thinks about them as he is fed up putting fuel in his Macan.
 
Isn’t that the standard for home chargers? …unless you have 3-Phase then 11kw is possible, I believe.
Never looked into them, he told me what they needed and I though 5hit. I’m was an electrician until a few years ago and gave up.

Most houses only have 60-80 amp incoming supply so 33 amps for one charger, like running an electric shower for hours😂
 
22kw is possible with 3 phase. New build developments will come with 3 phase in future. Park Eirin in Rhondda valley is one of first developments with 3 phase across the board.

 
Never looked into them, he told me what they needed and I though 5hit. I’m was an electrician until a few years ago and gave up.

Most houses only have 60-80 amp incoming supply so 33 amps for one charger, like running an electric shower for hours😂
Yeah we’re on 60A fuse, middle of 3 houses on a looped supply. Luckily the Zappi charger has a limiting function and knows the total house power consumption (aka a smart charger). If we had solar and or a battery store it’d use that as a preference over mains if I set it that way.

Chances are those matching Tesla’s wouldn’t need charging at exactly the same time, and if they did you’d easily find a way around it. E.g. 2 cars in parallel at 16A each overnight, or 1 car at 32 then the next one straight afterwards.
 
My bro just ordered 2 new Tesla model 3’s, his and hers!
Was asking me about 2 separate chargers, I asked what was the consumption and he said 7.5kw each and I laughed.

Will be good to see what he thinks about them as he is fed up putting fuel in his Macan.
He really doesn't need 2 chargers. A 7.5kw charger would charge a Tesla fully overnight. How often would both cars show up empty at home at 6pm and both need full charges for the following day? If you do 10,000 miles a year that would use at most 4,000kw which is 80kw per week or 11 hours per week on the charger. So for 2 cars sharing one charger, the charger will be unused 80%+ of the time even if you do all the charging at home. And you can always use an ultrafast public charger on the rare occassions that both cars couldn't get on the home charger overnight.
 
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