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CPR Fish Tales Playfield - Looking for help from an owner
- Thread starter JAG555
- Start date
Bobbdobalina
Site Supporter
The difference between this and Johns is night and day!
When I got a gold it had 'Gold' marked on it somewhere - I don't remember exactly where - on a sticker, or stamped on it somewhere - but it was defo marked on the playfield.
Ant-H
Site Supporter
The grading system is when they offered Silk screened playfields as you can get mixed results from the silk screening process.
So they used to stamp the underside with either gold, silver or bronze to easily identify the quality, which would also reflect in the price, so if you went with a bronze you knew roughly what to expect in terms of quality but at least they were cheaper.
In theory digital printing should have a higher success rate, hence only the one price now. However I think maybe they should reintroduce the grading after seeing the mixed results they are selling
So they used to stamp the underside with either gold, silver or bronze to easily identify the quality, which would also reflect in the price, so if you went with a bronze you knew roughly what to expect in terms of quality but at least they were cheaper.
In theory digital printing should have a higher success rate, hence only the one price now. However I think maybe they should reintroduce the grading after seeing the mixed results they are selling
I think they've shipped it knowing full well it isn't up to scratch and hoping the buyer doesn't complain about it.
I think that’s exactly what has happened!
We had issues with a Diner playfield that was sent back.
The quality of text was fuzzy plus it was missing all of the green which was yellow instead (yellow lettuce in the burger for example).
They claimed this is why it was $100 cheaper than usual but there was nothing in the description to say about any defects which I thought was dodgy as who's going studying images to check its the correct colours? We only noticed once it was here and next to our playfield for a week.
The quality of text was fuzzy plus it was missing all of the green which was yellow instead (yellow lettuce in the burger for example).
They claimed this is why it was $100 cheaper than usual but there was nothing in the description to say about any defects which I thought was dodgy as who's going studying images to check its the correct colours? We only noticed once it was here and next to our playfield for a week.
It’s so annoying and at the price they charge it should be no issues.
How were they to deal with sending it back and did you have to pay the postage?
We paid I believe, because apparently we should have known as it was discounted
, probably could have fought it tbh.@Lecari sent it back I think, so maybe remembers how much it cost and how it was arranged
Especially with trans Atlantic delivery. What a total pita.
My return was all prepaid, still peed me off though. Probably why it’s still sitting on the floor waiting to be fitted a year later.
Post it up on pinside on the FT thread, it’s what I did and got sorted pretty quick.
Post it up on pinside on the FT thread, it’s what I did and got sorted pretty quick.
Totally unacceptable, this is why inserts have a black ring to cover any slight offset. Has to go back, they have to pay for it. Should mail you an UPS or similar slip so you can stick it back in its box and get it picked up. What a pain! You may want to try Mirco after all, had positive experiences myself.
Thanks for everyone’s reply. After a few days wait, I finally got a reply from CPR and to be fair it is a very detailed reply, see below (settle in, it’s a bit of a long one).
‘The shop escalated your email to me, to hear your concerns and take a look at your pictures.
Yes, I can see what you are noticing. Those variances come from the marriage of an original-spec playfield cut of the wood, with a completely redrawn (vectored/layered) art package. The CNC programming to cut the wood was matched to an original playfield that came out of a game. The art package was made by hand, by a CPR Art Team member in the USA, back in 2009 or so... who painstakingly to the best of his abilities, vectorized every sketch, line, circle, word, and all the color fills/gradients across many hundreds of hours. Back in those days, the guys worked from carefully stitching together letter-sized-paper scans of a loaned NOS playfield at their end... to get something as close to scale and shape as possible, so they could trace the new artwork masters. Then at the end, the wood design made here was married with the Art Team art package submission. We still use the same Fish Tales layout to this day. Hundreds of playfields later...
So that will fill you in on some backstory, at least.
I checked the web site gallery to be sure, as I know this layout isn't something new. While the art package was a great job, the compromise of some of locations of graphical circles around bulb holes or bolt holes were never the priority or concern at the time, or since. We always stressed to the artists - INSERTS are the gospel, and must be a priority for as dead-on location accuracy as they can muster. As long as the marriage of the art coming onto the wood 'locks' onto the array of inserts, it's the most important thing to alignment of the entire layout. We'd even ask them to use rulers to confirm locations of their insert openings, versus the physical NOS playfield they had on hand, just to be as sure as possible.
Did we/they do all those confirmations for bulb hole rings, bolt/post hole rings ? No, we didn't. They were all drawn as-is, as located in their scan, they were tracing to re-create the artwork.
It ends up 95% of all that stuff gets buried under posts, ramps, plastics, etc. It rarely, if ever, got commented on.
Times have certainly changed since the layouts of 12+ years ago. Now with all the new tech, such as Cruse Scans on $500,000 fine-art units located in studios across the USA and Canada - we only allow a playfield art package to begin with an EXACT, ONE-PASS photographic surface scan of an NOS specimen. Zero skew. Accurate in scale to 1/1000th of an inch. Then, and only then, is a vectorized layout begun, using this high-end scan as the template.
All this said, I suppose this now comes down to your sentiments. You have a ton of information now, and an explanation of the process/provenance of this particular legacy CPR playfield layout.
You may find this unacceptable. You may understand and accept. All I know is that any other copy of Fish Tales from here is going to be essentially the same alignment, as they have been "oldschool" design since their release. I am open to hear your thoughts, and willing to accept it back for a refund of course, if need be. If you feel this is substandard value for what you paid, I'm also open to a type of partial 'grievance refund' to potentially soften the blow, so at least you feel like you got a better deal, under the circumstances.’
On top of this, a big thanks to @Robbie who also has one of these unfitted and sent me some photos showing his, which is pretty much the same.
I don’t know what to do to be honest, I appreciate what they are saying and that the inserts are lined up, but I also don’t want to be half way through the swap and it doesn’t line up.
Any further thoughts or experience with a Fish Tales from Classic Playfield Reproductions?
‘The shop escalated your email to me, to hear your concerns and take a look at your pictures.
Yes, I can see what you are noticing. Those variances come from the marriage of an original-spec playfield cut of the wood, with a completely redrawn (vectored/layered) art package. The CNC programming to cut the wood was matched to an original playfield that came out of a game. The art package was made by hand, by a CPR Art Team member in the USA, back in 2009 or so... who painstakingly to the best of his abilities, vectorized every sketch, line, circle, word, and all the color fills/gradients across many hundreds of hours. Back in those days, the guys worked from carefully stitching together letter-sized-paper scans of a loaned NOS playfield at their end... to get something as close to scale and shape as possible, so they could trace the new artwork masters. Then at the end, the wood design made here was married with the Art Team art package submission. We still use the same Fish Tales layout to this day. Hundreds of playfields later...
So that will fill you in on some backstory, at least.
I checked the web site gallery to be sure, as I know this layout isn't something new. While the art package was a great job, the compromise of some of locations of graphical circles around bulb holes or bolt holes were never the priority or concern at the time, or since. We always stressed to the artists - INSERTS are the gospel, and must be a priority for as dead-on location accuracy as they can muster. As long as the marriage of the art coming onto the wood 'locks' onto the array of inserts, it's the most important thing to alignment of the entire layout. We'd even ask them to use rulers to confirm locations of their insert openings, versus the physical NOS playfield they had on hand, just to be as sure as possible.
Did we/they do all those confirmations for bulb hole rings, bolt/post hole rings ? No, we didn't. They were all drawn as-is, as located in their scan, they were tracing to re-create the artwork.
It ends up 95% of all that stuff gets buried under posts, ramps, plastics, etc. It rarely, if ever, got commented on.
Times have certainly changed since the layouts of 12+ years ago. Now with all the new tech, such as Cruse Scans on $500,000 fine-art units located in studios across the USA and Canada - we only allow a playfield art package to begin with an EXACT, ONE-PASS photographic surface scan of an NOS specimen. Zero skew. Accurate in scale to 1/1000th of an inch. Then, and only then, is a vectorized layout begun, using this high-end scan as the template.
All this said, I suppose this now comes down to your sentiments. You have a ton of information now, and an explanation of the process/provenance of this particular legacy CPR playfield layout.
You may find this unacceptable. You may understand and accept. All I know is that any other copy of Fish Tales from here is going to be essentially the same alignment, as they have been "oldschool" design since their release. I am open to hear your thoughts, and willing to accept it back for a refund of course, if need be. If you feel this is substandard value for what you paid, I'm also open to a type of partial 'grievance refund' to potentially soften the blow, so at least you feel like you got a better deal, under the circumstances.’
On top of this, a big thanks to @Robbie who also has one of these unfitted and sent me some photos showing his, which is pretty much the same.
I don’t know what to do to be honest, I appreciate what they are saying and that the inserts are lined up, but I also don’t want to be half way through the swap and it doesn’t line up.
Any further thoughts or experience with a Fish Tales from Classic Playfield Reproductions?
Get your money back and think about it for a while.
Maybe I don't understand vector graphics, but why after printing a first test playfield don't they see which holes are not lined up and move the art accordingly?
It will forever bug you and if you are going through the hassle of putting a new playfield in you want it to me as near perfect as possible.
They should put that blurb they sent you on their product page and see how their sales drop.
It will forever bug you and if you are going through the hassle of putting a new playfield in you want it to me as near perfect as possible.
They should put that blurb they sent you on their product page and see how their sales drop.
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The bit I don’t understand is why have they not redone it if they can do now much better!
Highlnder00
Site Supporter
They clearly state they made no attempt to do this. Can't believe they are still using files from 2009 that don't fit and their excuse is well most of it is hidden under plastics??
Also the art was probably stolen, taken, borrowed, given to by the guys that do the art for the virtual machines, which is why they never went back to the artist to make changes
it sucks but get your money back as this should not be happening.
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I can sort of understand not prioritising art lining up on post holes etc, but looks like you have bare wood visible around the inserts, try shining a torch from behind, as if you have that it will be very noticeable IMO.
At some point I think it was Marco were offering a service where they would send you photos of the exact PF you would receive first, but they charged $50 or so.
At some point I think it was Marco were offering a service where they would send you photos of the exact PF you would receive first, but they charged $50 or so.
This is not rare at all.
Had it on a lot of playfields made by different copmpanies.
Had it on a lot of playfields made by different copmpanies.
Have you used a Fish Tales from these?
These only became available last summer, I hope to fit mine soon but I might put it off again.
Better off asking on pinside or maybe ask Kruzman what he thinks about it and post a pic on his thread.
PinIB
Site Supporter
Send it back. They are just talking ********.
The Lite Fish Finder insert is a million miles off. It looks like you got the one that was sent back By M4Carp.
If this was me I’d have lost the plot by now.
The Lite Fish Finder insert is a million miles off. It looks like you got the one that was sent back By M4Carp.
If this was me I’d have lost the plot by now.
I am getting close!
No, I think I made my mind up when I saw it last week, but wanted to see the reply.