Yes agreed Ian, machine alocation arguements aside, Peter and everyone else involved in the tournaments did work very hard to make it happen, and it worked extremely well 99% of the time which is an achievement in itself. Thanks to all involved.
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Closed: pinball party location - poll last night
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Oh and if one of the critics (@cooldan perhaps?) would like to step up and take the job of arranging tournament and show tables then I am more than willing to hand it over to them...
You are also welcome to have the 5 hours of setting machines up, organising the tournament area and generally running round like a hair brained lunatic trying to get things sorted before the tournaments start. And the packing up afterwards when everyone makes a bee line for the exit and leaves the packing up to you...
You are also welcome to have the 5 hours of setting machines up, organising the tournament area and generally running round like a hair brained lunatic trying to get things sorted before the tournaments start. And the packing up afterwards when everyone makes a bee line for the exit and leaves the packing up to you...
is this not going to lead to us and them, i am worried about hearing statements like only for tournament use, can you clarify that statement because if it infers that no one outside the tournament can play them at all it makes sense to me about conversations i had reference other people deciding that their machines were not to be in the tournament .
I allowed my Iron man to be in the tournament but worry about the future ........... didnt affect me as i played the torney machines when it appeared the contests where down to just a couple of machines and people in the afternoon, worked for me, wouldnt that be the way to go ?????
I allowed my Iron man to be in the tournament but worry about the future ........... didnt affect me as i played the torney machines when it appeared the contests where down to just a couple of machines and people in the afternoon, worked for me, wouldnt that be the way to go ?????
no thanks Peter, for the reasons you give. i appreciate all your hard work, i'm not a full critic, i played in the comp myself. perhaps you think that because i wanted my games up for general use, therefore i'm anti-tournament, but actually i have an inclusive approach, as the comp players can also have a go on them. i liked the system at 8bitflip best.
if i am to criticise, i will say that we didn't need anything like the 4h allowed to play the ten games. maybe good players can't finish ten two-player games in 240 minutes, but i could. also the comp format wasn't entirely fair this time, as qualification wasn't a level playing field - some people were knocked out with 6 wins out of 10, and others went through with 5 wins, so it depended on who was in your group. can you imagine how some of our more competitive members would have reacted to being affected by that? with so many machines, can we knocked-out players not have a consolation tournament to play on the Sunday (like David had at Pinburgh the other week)?
lots of good ideas here, especially the opening-and-closing windows for public play, but these depend on the owners of comp-only games accepting that idea. if they don't then i think those machines need to be out of the public eye and behind closed doors, so people don't see what they can't have.
Once upon a time we all turned up at Aston Villa or Kettering or Daventry. The then tournament team selected machines for the tournaments from what was there. This led to fall out that tournament machines were not available for people to play (like now). So when I took over the organising I ask if machines are available for selection or not. As per http://www.pinballinfo.com/community/threads/2015-uk-pinball-party-table-pledges.23643/
and I've tried to use many duplicate games to cut down on the complaints which seems to have spectacularly failed this year, possibly because the tournaments ran over two days rather than the one.
Another of the reasons for two days (not mentioned so far) is the changes to the WPPR scoring system that require more games to be played to obtain the full quota of points. The UK Open is also part of the IFPA European Champion Series circuit. Many other top level tournaments around the world are run on a similar format over two (or more) days. That said other countries do have a lot bigger pinball scenes than the UK does.
So I guess you could say it has always been a us and them as you put it, although I'd rather not because we are all there for the pinball.
WPPR points? What are they? 
. Just for the record although I kept my machines in the public area I hadn't outright refused their use, in my original PM with you Peter I did say their use would have to be limited, i.e. Not locked away for the whole weekend, to which the reply was that they would have to stay there. Thats why they weren't allowed.
The main thing is that this doesn't become a slanging match ( its well on its way! ), but that we look at what went wrong and what worked well to learn going forward. Peter and the whole team worked very hard all weekend. Andrew and his whole team were fantastic host, always polite, always willing to do whatever they could to keep everyone happy, I myself had a lift back to my hotel one night by Janos in his own car and the 2nd night by a very gracious owner of a pinball company.
The event being close to me ( for a change! ) and not having to drive 150 miles to was a bonus but if it isn't going to be there next year I will do my best to attend wherever it is. I thoroughly enjoyed it, and look forward to the next one, if there is to be one.
Those that didn't go missed out.
. Just for the record although I kept my machines in the public area I hadn't outright refused their use, in my original PM with you Peter I did say their use would have to be limited, i.e. Not locked away for the whole weekend, to which the reply was that they would have to stay there. Thats why they weren't allowed. The main thing is that this doesn't become a slanging match ( its well on its way! ), but that we look at what went wrong and what worked well to learn going forward. Peter and the whole team worked very hard all weekend. Andrew and his whole team were fantastic host, always polite, always willing to do whatever they could to keep everyone happy, I myself had a lift back to my hotel one night by Janos in his own car and the 2nd night by a very gracious owner of a pinball company.
The event being close to me ( for a change! ) and not having to drive 150 miles to was a bonus but if it isn't going to be there next year I will do my best to attend wherever it is. I thoroughly enjoyed it, and look forward to the next one, if there is to be one.
Those that didn't go missed out.
hasnt been us and them for me, and i didnt say that
I played all the games i wanted in the tornament section as i stated, and no one was there or needed to ask me to stop playing as i could clearly see the games in the other row that were being used in the final stages, i watched from a distance for a while and fascinating it was too.
If people had of started arriving needing the machines for torney i would have left , why not just do that ???? is all i wanted to put forward.
But if i was told that i could not play the machines in that section at all, i would want you stopped from playing my games afterwards in the general section
( only joking )
sade was right why carnt we live together, give peace a chance, hug a hippy, all you need is love, tune in and drop out, fall apart in my backyard, oh and do the huckle buck
I played all the games i wanted in the tornament section as i stated, and no one was there or needed to ask me to stop playing as i could clearly see the games in the other row that were being used in the final stages, i watched from a distance for a while and fascinating it was too.
If people had of started arriving needing the machines for torney i would have left , why not just do that ???? is all i wanted to put forward.
But if i was told that i could not play the machines in that section at all, i would want you stopped from playing my games afterwards in the general section
( only joking )sade was right why carnt we live together, give peace a chance, hug a hippy, all you need is love, tune in and drop out, fall apart in my backyard, oh and do the huckle buck
The fact is the WPPR points really don't matter THAT much do they? It's one event and if worth 75% then so be it (fair enough if it has to be 100% for Euro tour rules). Last year on the Saturday, 137 players played on 14 machines and the tournament was over in one day - people moaned about machines being used in the tournament. This year 80 players were on 22 machines which means there were more than double the amount of machines used per player (excluding classics here) people are moaning a LOT more. I can't see how you don't think that's bad, irrespective of whether or not they wouldn't have been there almost 1/3 of the machines were in a tournament on Saturday. And that's excluding any use of the machines on Sunday (which last year would have been back in the free play area bar 5 league machines).
My point is simply this, the tournament needs to be in a separate room or venue to the party, it's confusing for the public and leads to a reasonable amount of aggro. It stops tournament people doing their thing because they are either explaining to people why they can't play, or in certain instances (which has happened at every UK Pinball show and Party) ejecting them from the area. I know how hard running a tournament can be, all the extra pressure that can easily be removed should be and anything that puts off casual players CANNOT be a good thing.
I think the Open can stand on its own as a week-end tournament (including league finals and classics), a middle of the country venue can't be too hard to find that will take 20-30 machines and 100 or so people. Those 20-30 machines shouldn't be difficult to source as they can be brought by tournament players, there can then still be a UK show which may be less well attended but may actually be better of for it.
Please understand I'm not picking on you here Peter, I don't think anybody is and I understand you wanting to justify, but we all must try to see it from a casual players perspective first and foremost as the flow of newer people that have come into the hobby in the last 3-4 years seems to have slowed quite dramatically.
My point is simply this, the tournament needs to be in a separate room or venue to the party, it's confusing for the public and leads to a reasonable amount of aggro. It stops tournament people doing their thing because they are either explaining to people why they can't play, or in certain instances (which has happened at every UK Pinball show and Party) ejecting them from the area. I know how hard running a tournament can be, all the extra pressure that can easily be removed should be and anything that puts off casual players CANNOT be a good thing.
I think the Open can stand on its own as a week-end tournament (including league finals and classics), a middle of the country venue can't be too hard to find that will take 20-30 machines and 100 or so people. Those 20-30 machines shouldn't be difficult to source as they can be brought by tournament players, there can then still be a UK show which may be less well attended but may actually be better of for it.
Please understand I'm not picking on you here Peter, I don't think anybody is and I understand you wanting to justify, but we all must try to see it from a casual players perspective first and foremost as the flow of newer people that have come into the hobby in the last 3-4 years seems to have slowed quite dramatically.
So did I and it was considered but it is deemed impractical if you are trying to maintain a certain standard of gameplay.
I think the morning session pretty much used the full 4 hours, the afternoon session ran quicker and smoother and finished after 3 and a bit hours expect for the one who went on the factory tour in the middle of it... so that properly finished after 4 and a half hours.
Qualifying is never fair, past complaints about qualifying (with the old format) have included that it only favoured people who could score big points or that knew the games better than others, that you only had to get a top 3 score to qualify, etc.
Actually that was intended but we (that's a royal we), the organisers, forgot to let those knocked-out players know... However, we found that on Sunday with running both the normal and classics it was pretty hectic and ended up being quite glad of one less tournament to control.
Um, which part of the factory was that going to be then? We'd never been before, had no idea what to expect, also have lighting and electrics to think about.
omg what have I done, I was only responding to Dave's request for feedback
No one in the UK likes the new WPPR system, it penalises smaller communities like ours.
This year was 88 players.
Last year was 20 machines (18 plus 2 reserves in the corner IIRC) and finished about 8.30pm. Last years how had a little over 80 machines in total, this years had a 100 or so, with almost half the tournament machines being duplicates.
As I explained at the start of my post, this was originally going to be a UK Open only event, which morphed in to the pinball party. I for one am glad it did and I am please that Andrew took it on to do so and included factory tours, dinner evening/hog roast, vendors, etc.
I think more people than ever have come in to the hobby in the last 3-4 year than have ever before. As @Paul will testify with the increase in members of this forum.
Peter, hopefully you don't consider my 2p worth as criticism as it wasn't meant that way it was a collection of thoughts/feedback for Dave/discussion
StevePeter, hopefully you don't consider my 2p worth as criticism as it wasn't meant that way it was a collection of thoughts/feedback for Dave/discussion
No worries, I'd rather this was all discussed while it's still fresh in peoples minds so that we can reflect and make changes if/as/where necessary. Some of us have more of an interest than others. If it can motivate people to get involved in the future that would be a big plus!
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I had the misfortune of walking into the tournament area at what seemed a quiet time , played a few balls and was booted out of the area. I know people were doing their best to organize tournaments but no need for aggression.
But kudos to all those who gave so much of their time to make the event happen
Andy's team especially worked their socks off and they must have been knackered!
But kudos to all those who gave so much of their time to make the event happen
Andy's team especially worked their socks off and they must have been knackered!
I did make sure I researched the number of machines last year prior to making the comment, the pinball news video shows Iron Man as the last machine (numbered 14)
Indeed I understand that, but then it was advertised incorrectly.
I liked the show personally, I preferred it to Daventry for the pinball side of it - there was loads of space, Andrew seemed in good spirits and most people seemed relaxed. I ended up driving for 5 hours to play 5 games, have some food and chat to mates and I had a good time! I still think it should have been sold as "The UK Open with some machines on free play", no matter how it's painted almost 1/3 of the machines were in use for tournaments - I'm not saying that's bad per se what I am saying is that in a show advertised with having 100+ machines on Free Play, the implication is that you can play all these. The "Open" was a closed event (I don't know if spaces were available on the day) so that's not the case.
That was my point, the new people that have come into the hobby are already here but the ones now entering the hobby compared to the last 3 or 4 years has slowed to a trickle
Really wish I could have made it this year, but I took a gamble to book my annual family holiday before the UKPP dates were announced (and was restricted to a certain degree by family availability). Unfortunately it overlapped on Friday and Saturday, and there was no way the wife was going to swallow me buggering off for a jolly day of pinball whilst she unpacked everything.
I would have LOVED to have to done the factory tour and been in on the private ALIENS reveal. OMG! From the general feedback it sounds hopeful that it's going to be a stonking title!
I would have LOVED to have to done the factory tour and been in on the private ALIENS reveal. OMG! From the general feedback it sounds hopeful that it's going to be a stonking title!
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For me the Alien reveal was high light of the day. Thanks to Andy for making it happen
A lot has been said here and it will probably take a while to all settle down. I will only add a couple of points as to not go over old ground but even though I did enter the tournament, I played the same machine 3 times, another one twice so in all only, played a fraction of the tournament machines any way which was a shame.
I personally preferred Daventry as I'm a southern softy and prefer a nice hotel, bar and food facilities on site, but no one has suggested a new venue, central location with a room bigger than Daventry (with AirCon?) but smaller than the factory. I think the location accessible by all would help.
i know a lot of hard work goes into these things to make them happen and I like everyone on here are most grateful. Thank you all.
I personally preferred Daventry as I'm a southern softy and prefer a nice hotel, bar and food facilities on site, but no one has suggested a new venue, central location with a room bigger than Daventry (with AirCon?) but smaller than the factory. I think the location accessible by all would help.
i know a lot of hard work goes into these things to make them happen and I like everyone on here are most grateful. Thank you all.
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Now it all makes sense, it was the UK Open hosted at Andy's gaff, but under the same UKPP banner as last year.
What could go wrong?
After many, many years experience of shows and tournaments, this is a cock-up. I don't think this is just Peter's misjudgement, the communications of the overall billing should've changed. Expectation management.
I'm glad I'm an old-timer, most years when I was helping run the tournaments, I didn't get to play any floor machines anyway, so I'm used to talking to people instead of playing and thus if I'd have attended, it would have been fine. Having lots of local venues helps, I guess.
The absolute worst situation for a casual player IIRC was in Sweden at the EPC 7 or 8 years ago (correct me if I'm wrong). All the tournament machines were set aside, you could only play when it was your turn and there were only half a dozen non-tournament practice machines on pay-to-play. Of course I was out in the first round and that was it for the weekend.
What could go wrong?
After many, many years experience of shows and tournaments, this is a cock-up. I don't think this is just Peter's misjudgement, the communications of the overall billing should've changed. Expectation management.
I'm glad I'm an old-timer, most years when I was helping run the tournaments, I didn't get to play any floor machines anyway, so I'm used to talking to people instead of playing and thus if I'd have attended, it would have been fine. Having lots of local venues helps, I guess.
The absolute worst situation for a casual player IIRC was in Sweden at the EPC 7 or 8 years ago (correct me if I'm wrong). All the tournament machines were set aside, you could only play when it was your turn and there were only half a dozen non-tournament practice machines on pay-to-play. Of course I was out in the first round and that was it for the weekend.
Hey @Moonraker is that white water the one I nearly bought at the slam last year that lived at yours for abit? Lovely looking machine and plays beautifully
Would a small hall at NEC be an option ?
Decent access by road, rail or air. Plenty of on site hotels and eating places (admitable at airport prices) also plenty of places slightly further away by taxi or bus for food and accomadation.
A hotel is a decent option but it usually leads to captive audience therefore chargeing over the odds for crap food and drink
Decent access by road, rail or air. Plenty of on site hotels and eating places (admitable at airport prices) also plenty of places slightly further away by taxi or bus for food and accomadation.
A hotel is a decent option but it usually leads to captive audience therefore chargeing over the odds for crap food and drink
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Back to Wicksteed Park in Kettering it is then! (But I would say that, as it was my idea in the first place and I was born there.)
Pins Anon only moved from there because Asian weddings with 1000+ guests were outbidding the Pinball Show! The dance floor was a bit springy, though.
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well i had a great time in daventry and a great time im merthyr thanks andy and team for another great pinball party.For me Daventry posher, Merthyr closer and roomier (loved the soap with grit in i felt like a mechanic lol).
A little bit of a rift appearing by the looks. I for one think that if you bring a pinball to the party it should be played by everyone mine was on the main floor greg asked if he could borrow it for comp saturday, to me there was no problem with that as it was public fri and sunday and part of saturday , would it be that hard to tape off comp tables when comp is in swing then remove tape when its finished? maybe start comp a bit earlier or a bit later , as i for 1 dont want to go down the road of " if hes not lending his hes not playing on mine". all i wanted is to bring my table and let everyone play, because its my fifth year at the pin party now and 5 years ago i only dreamt of owning the machine ive got now and have made a lot of sacrifices to own it , as my first year i was so thankful to play on some of the expensive and rare pins which people kindly donated. it is almost impossible to get every aspect perfect for me it isnt about the location the food the dinner the nightlife the parking the competition the price of beer it was about the playing pinballs,and i certainly had my fair share, but saying that some of the pins ive played in the past were missing this year and the same thing applied last year , i also played the comp pins over the weekend when it got a bit quieter but didnt realise i was not supposed to as no one said anything to me but i was checking to see if the comp was over. I will say merthyr as a town is a bit of a dive especially when i was outside and this young lad who looked like he had been dragged through a river asked me if id seen the coppers about and asked if there was a back way out of the factory. I will also say there was ample room at andys even though it was lacking in the shag pile department with the carpet lol. Also if anyone needs a hand setting anything up i will help as was just sitting around this time waiting for things to start. The real answer is to get 250 pins into andys then there will be plenty for everyone lol.
A little bit of a rift appearing by the looks. I for one think that if you bring a pinball to the party it should be played by everyone mine was on the main floor greg asked if he could borrow it for comp saturday, to me there was no problem with that as it was public fri and sunday and part of saturday , would it be that hard to tape off comp tables when comp is in swing then remove tape when its finished? maybe start comp a bit earlier or a bit later , as i for 1 dont want to go down the road of " if hes not lending his hes not playing on mine". all i wanted is to bring my table and let everyone play, because its my fifth year at the pin party now and 5 years ago i only dreamt of owning the machine ive got now and have made a lot of sacrifices to own it , as my first year i was so thankful to play on some of the expensive and rare pins which people kindly donated. it is almost impossible to get every aspect perfect for me it isnt about the location the food the dinner the nightlife the parking the competition the price of beer it was about the playing pinballs,and i certainly had my fair share, but saying that some of the pins ive played in the past were missing this year and the same thing applied last year , i also played the comp pins over the weekend when it got a bit quieter but didnt realise i was not supposed to as no one said anything to me but i was checking to see if the comp was over. I will say merthyr as a town is a bit of a dive especially when i was outside and this young lad who looked like he had been dragged through a river asked me if id seen the coppers about and asked if there was a back way out of the factory. I will also say there was ample room at andys even though it was lacking in the shag pile department with the carpet lol. Also if anyone needs a hand setting anything up i will help as was just sitting around this time waiting for things to start. The real answer is to get 250 pins into andys then there will be plenty for everyone lol.
No worries, I'd rather this was all discussed while it's still fresh in peoples minds so that we can reflect and make changes if/as/where necessary. Some of us have more of an interest than others. If it can motivate people to get involved in the future that would be a big plus!
At the last 3 Daventry's I arrived early to help with set up so will help if I can
Daventry was hot, stuffy, cramped with it all in one room so with the debate going on at the moment just putting this out there, what if it was in 2 rooms? Tournaments in 1 and actual freeplay in another? Doesn't have to be Daventry but would 2 rooms work/be an option?
People will still complain about machine allocation...
Damm right should be at least 260 if not 275
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