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All sorts of Clocks!!

AlanJ

AlanJ

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A bit of interest in this, so as requested here is a thread of it's own.

I got the idea from @James who sent me a link a few weeks ago to a guy who had done a clock made out of old EM reels.

The thought stuck in my mind and I wondered if I could do it myself from scratch.

I decided to do it totally from scratch myself, the woodworking, electronics and the arduino programming. I wanted a clock that told the time, got the latest time off the internet if connected to wi-fi and also adjusted for BST/GMT.

Youtube video here:


98333114_10158873125257176_1650665174345973760_n.jpg
99127653_10158873125492176_4624850333707796480_n.jpg

Parts are pretty simple:
4 old score reels
From left to right in the above picture:
ESP32s - like an arduino but has built in wi-fi and is much better to work with.
Voltage regulator board, set to output 5V
RTC module - real time clock, with battery backup
4 channel Opto isolated relay board


Here is a full parts list to build an EM clock :

4 EM score reels. Any will do, as long as they are in working order

ESP32s board:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ESP32-ES...ooth-Antenna-UK/143297558340?epid=20031754719

Holder for the ESP32s – note this item needs to be cut in half to fit the esp32s, as this is made for an Arduino nano board (I have not yet found a supplier who produces a terminal board that fits the ESP32s). Another alternative is to just use dupont connectors directly onto the pins of the ESP32s. I cut in half with a fine saw and then glue to a base - wood or card.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nano-Ter...-ATMEGA328P-AU-Module-Board-6-HO/233591681563

Real Time clock Module
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/fit-For-...on-RTC-Real-Time-Clock-Memory-UK/164154985457

Battery for RTC module
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-X-Supe...oundMax-3-VOLT-LITHIUM-BATTERIES/293566166984

Adjustable Voltage Regulator – note you will need to adjust the output voltage of this to be 5V, they come unadjusted and so it will give out around the input voltage (24v) and will damage the ESP32 and the Relay board if you don’t adjust first!!!!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5A-DC-DC...lt-Power-Supply-Converter-Module/192473544494

Note: this next part has been superseded! see below
4 Way opto isolator relay board.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5V-DC-Re...olation-arduino-pic-pi-avr-NewUK/190950013824
I’m going to use a solid state mosfet driver board instead. the em relay coils will soon destroy the relay switch contacts. as i’ve found out. so need a more elegant solution.
will list part or parts as soon as i’ve sourced and tested. looking at IRF540 or similar.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-channe...fet-switch-module-for-arduino-9H/224017014979

24v power supply – go for 5A or 10A.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Regulate...18V-24V-36V-48V-Universal-PSU-DC/151886747221

Hookup wire, cable ties, wood for housing.


Software available from me for the ESP32s. You can either:
  • send me your esp32s and I’ll upload and test the board for you & send back, or
  • I can provide source code and you can install the Arduino IDE, install ESP32 board extensions & the various libraries that are also used, compile and upload it yourself. I’d only recommend this if you are familiar with Arduino programming!
  • I can provide an ESP32s board with the s/w pre-loaded, fully tested for £13 UK posted.

Wiring Diagrams:
I decided easiest to do it in logical stages:
image0.jpeg
image1.jpeg
image2.jpeg
image3.jpeg
image4.jpeg

Software Configuration:
I came across two issues with the score reels, to which I have developed a software solution:

1. Firstly, on the 4 score reels I had, I noticed they worked differently with respect to how the zero postion switch works. 2 of the units had the switch normally open, until the reel is at position zero, then the switch is closed. The other two reels were the opposite, ie. the switch was normally closed until the score was in the zero position, then it becomes open! So, I have allowed for this, and you can configure what type of switch you have on your score reels. Open or closed when in the zero position.

2. The second issue I had, what that different score reels take differeing amounts of time to be activated, so so I have also allowed a configuration to set the time each coil is energised, in multiples of 100 milliseconds, ranging from 1 - 10. from 1/10 second to one whole second.

All these settings are configured in the wi-fi config menu, which is accessed from the ESP32s. You can connect to the device even if it is not conneccted to your wifi network - it creates its own wi-fi access point, which you can connect to from your phone.

Here is a screen shot of the config page:
image0 (2).jpeg

In My system, Reels 1 & 2 have a zero position switch that is closed until the score hits zero and then it is open. Reels 3 & 4 have a zero position switch that is open until the score hits zero and then it closes.

Reels 1,2 & 4 get 1 burst of 100 milliseconds to energise the score coil and turn the score. Reel 3 gets 3 lots, 300 milliseconds. it's a slower reel.

I Hope this helps. Happy to assist and answer and questions.
 
Last edited:
Alan, good work, this topic has spiked my interest for some time. I was wondering if this could be adapted to graft onto a real EM to display time using the reels when the game is over, perhaps even better have an option to alternate displaying a last remembered hi-score. Sound feasible?
 
AlanJ said:
A bit of interest in this, so as requested here is a thread of it's own.

I got the idea from @James who sent me a link a few weeks ago to a guy who had done a clock made out of old EM reels.

The thought stuck in my mind and I wondered if I could do it myself from scratch.

I decided to do it totally from scratch myself, the woodworking, electronics and the arduino programming. I wanted a clock that told the time, got the latest time off the internet if connected to wi-fi and also adjusted for BST/GMT.

Youtube video here:


View attachment 108666
View attachment 108668

Parts are pretty simple:
4 old score reels
From left to right in the above picture:
ESP32s - like an arduino but has built in wi-fi and is much better to work with.
Voltage regulator board, set to output 5V
RTC module - real time clock, with battery backup
4 channel Opto isolated relay board


Here is a full parts list to build an EM clock :

4 EM score reels. Any will do, as long as they are in working order

ESP32s board:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ESP32-ES...ooth-Antenna-UK/143297558340?epid=20031754719

Holder for the ESP32s – note this item needs to be cut in half to fit the esp32s, as this is made for an Arduino nano board (I have not yet found a supplier who produces a terminal board that fits the ESP32s). Another alternative is to just use dupont connectors directly onto the pins of the ESP32s. I cut in half with a fine saw and then glue to a base - wood or card.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nano-Ter...-ATMEGA328P-AU-Module-Board-6-HO/233591681563

Real Time clock Module
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/fit-For-...on-RTC-Real-Time-Clock-Memory-UK/164154985457

Battery for RTC module
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-X-Supe...oundMax-3-VOLT-LITHIUM-BATTERIES/293566166984

Adjustable Voltage Regulator – note you will need to adjust the output voltage of this to be 5V, they come unadjusted and so it will give out around the input voltage (24v) and will damage the ESP32 and the Relay board if you don’t adjust first!!!!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5A-DC-DC...lt-Power-Supply-Converter-Module/192473544494

4 Way opto isolator relay board.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5V-DC-Re...olation-arduino-pic-pi-avr-NewUK/190950013824

24v power supply – go for 5A or 10A.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Regulate...18V-24V-36V-48V-Universal-PSU-DC/151886747221

Hookup wire, cable ties, wood for housing.


Software available from me for the ESP32s. You can either:
  • send me your esp32s and I’ll upload and test the board for you & send back, or
  • I can provide source code and you can install the Arduino IDE, install ESP32 board extensions & the various libraries that are also used, compile and upload it yourself. I’d only recommend this if you are familiar with Arduino programming!
  • I can provide an ESP32s board with the s/w pre-loaded, fully tested for £13 UK posted.

Wiring Diagrams:
I decided easiest to do it in logical stages:
View attachment 108669
View attachment 108670
View attachment 108671
View attachment 108672
View attachment 108673

Software Configuration:
I came across two issues with the score reels, to which I have developed a software solution:

1. Firstly, on the 4 score reels I had, I noticed they worked differently with respect to how the zero postion switch works. 2 of the units had the switch normally open, until the reel is at position zero, then the switch is closed. The other two reels were the opposite, ie. the switch was normally closed until the score was in the zero position, then it becomes open! So, I have allowed for this, and you can configure what type of switch you have on your score reels. Open or closed when in the zero position.

2. The second issue I had, what that different score reels take differeing amounts of time to be activated, so so I have also allowed a configuration to set the time each coil is energised, in multiples of 100 milliseconds, ranging from 1 - 10. from 1/10 second to one whole second.

All these settings are configured in the wi-fi config menu, which is accessed from the ESP32s. You can connect to the device even if it is not conneccted to your wifi network - it creates its own wi-fi access point, which you can connect to from your phone.

Here is a screen shot of the config page:
View attachment 108674

In My system, Reels 1 & 2 have a zero position switch that is closed until the score hits zero and then it is open. Reels 3 & 4 have a zero position switch that is open until the score hits zero and then it closes.

Reels 1,2 & 4 get 1 burst of 100 milliseconds to energise the score coil and turn the score. Reel 3 gets 3 lots, 300 milliseconds. it's a slower reel.

I Hope this helps. Happy to assist and answer and questions.
Click to expand...


Mighty fine project Alan. Excellent work :)

Now getting building them into a nice case so we can all buy one :)
 
astyy said:
Alan, good work, this topic has spiked my interest for some time. I was wondering if this could be adapted to graft onto a real EM to display time using the reels when the game is over, perhaps even better have an option to alternate displaying a last remembered hi-score. Sound feasible?
Click to expand...

It should be possible to make the clock work the reels in an existing EM machine, reading the state of the zero position switches might be the problem area. Would also need to detect when a game is over, then reset the reels to zero then set the current time. As soon as a game is started, don't touch the reels! If the power on the game is switched off, then the coils would have to be powered by the 24v power supply, but if the game is switched on then they could be powered from the normal supply within the game. I'd need to ensure that they were not powered by both at the same time, so would need an additional relay for that. Sounds feasible. might have to try with one of my machines!

Regarding the high score. The issue here is reading the score at the end of a game. On some score reels, like the gottleibs I used, you often have 10 switches on the rotor that you can use to determine which number it is currently on, but this is not the case on other types of score reels. So there may be 2 approaches:

1. For score reels with the individual score rotor switches: On a 4 reel game this would need 10 X 4 = 40 inputs to read the score. That would require a number of multiplexers to get the required number of inputs. the existing wiring of these might interfere with our ability to read these switches properly.

2. For other score reels where there is no way to tell what number it is on, I started a project to read the score into an arduino and display it on a 4 digit 7 segment LED display, this more or less worked, the arduino sensed each time a score reel was energised, and counted up the score. However by the time you got to the end of a game, the score on the reels was different to the score on the 7 segment display. This was because sometimes a reel was energised and didnt turn, or sometimes it turned twice. I then left that project as I couldn't reliably get the two to agree 100%. If I can, then that would then be easy to save the high score to date and redisplay it between games. Either on a 7 segement display or on the original score reels. The 7 segment was my preferred way as I added an extra couple of digits, so could count 5 or 6 reels, instead of just 4.
 
This was the post that got me started on this:

https://www.elektormagazine.com/labs/pinball-clock-180307-1

I've just re-read it and there are some useful ideas to add into my project:

1. The ability to 'silence' the clock between certain times of the day - e..g. at night.
2. Adding chime unit or something else to use as an alarm, and ability to set and configure a number of alarms
3. Displaying the date - would need some indicator leds on the front to let you know what it was displaying: 1. Time HH:MM , Day & Month DD:MM or Year YYYY.
 
That’s a great project and I only wish I understood the electronics! However, my contribution is that I do have some score reels & mechs out of Gottliebs and Williams if someone wants to buy some😉
 
A superb project @AlanJ

Already have a dots clock, would like a nixie clock, would love one of these, it’s super cool a really talking point I suspect 😎

well done 👍

Chris.
 
AlanJ said:
It should be possible to make the clock work the reels in an existing EM machine
Click to expand...

Hi Alan I appreciate this comprehensive reply, yes my Bally only has one reel fully wired for match.

Re. hi-scores., I've seen back in the day machines had their hi-scores recorded in crayon sometimes in a special blank area of the backglass. What about the "app" allowing a similar use case and to enter an observed hi-score for the machine - kind of in character! Multiple hi-scores could be recorded and the match lights used to indicate which position as they scroll through and update the reels. My Rocket III would be ideal for this as it only has 4 "active" score reels (ideal for time as no blank 0's) and the match numbers are hence 1-10 to indicate hi-score position when in hi-score display mode.

I'm sure the clock power could be isolated via the anti-cheat or game relay but I'd be really interested with some added pinball functionality like above if you like the idea.
 
AlanJ said:
1. For score reels with the individual score rotor switches: On a 4 reel game this would need 10 X 4 = 40 inputs to read the score. That would require a number of multiplexers to get the required number of inputs. the existing wiring of these might interfere with our ability to read these switches properly.
Click to expand...

If you did want to tackle this then there's a few ways to reduce the number of inputs needed. For example by using 5 x 74HCT253 ics then we could reduce the number of control pins needed to interface with 40 inputs (5 x 8) to 13 pins. I am happy to share a few circuit designs to help out

0 position switches would also be included in the 13 pins so that also means these inputs aren't added on top of the count.
 
myPinballs said:
If you did want to tackle this then there's a few ways to reduce the number of inputs needed........
Click to expand...

Thanks Jim. It looks like most folk will have reels without all 10 switches, so at this stage I’m not going to do it, but will ask you if I ever do. [emoji106][emoji2]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
astyy said:
Hi Alan I appreciate this comprehensive reply, yes my Bally only has one reel fully wired for match.

Re. hi-scores., I've seen back in the day machines had their hi-scores recorded in crayon sometimes in a special blank area of the backglass. What about the "app" allowing a similar use case and to enter an observed hi-score for the machine - kind of in character! Multiple hi-scores could be recorded and the match lights used to indicate which position as they scroll through and update the reels. My Rocket III would be ideal for this as it only has 4 "active" score reels (ideal for time as no blank 0's) and the match numbers are hence 1-10 to indicate hi-score position when in hi-score display mode.

I'm sure the clock power could be isolated via the anti-cheat or game relay but I'd be really interested with some added pinball functionality like above if you like the idea.
Click to expand...

Good idea. i’ll get around to looking into this in the next week or two.

i’ve blown up the relay board in my clock so now got to wait for another to arrive. It looks like these cheap relays are not good enough to handle EM score reel coils. the relay is rated 10A at 28v D.C. i’m running at 24v and with coil resistance at 7.5 ohms. suggests drawing 3.2A. I think I’ll have to go for better relays 100A automotive maybe? or a solid state solution. At least with solid state there will be no sparking!

the relay that has failed was the one doing most work, connected to the minute reel so it was activating far more than the other 3.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
In fact i’m scrapping the relays and going mosfets. just like a good old pinball.

i’ll update the parts list above.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
AlanJ said:
In fact i’m scrapping the relays and going mosfets. just like a good old pinball.

i’ll update the parts list above.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

good idea. Mosfets for the win. Not surprised that cheap Chinese relay board isn’t upto the specs it states !
 
myPinballs said:
If you did want to tackle this then there's a few ways to reduce the number of inputs needed. For example by using 5 x 74HCT253 ics then we could reduce the number of control pins needed to interface with 40 inputs (5 x 8) to 13 pins. I am happy to share a few circuit designs to help out

0 position switches would also be included in the 13 pins so that also means these inputs aren't added on top of the count.
Click to expand...

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but you could also use 5 x CD4021BE 8 bit shift registers, which are chainable. This would reduce the number of inputs required to 3.

1590401199724.png

https://www.arduino.cc/en/tutorial/ShiftIn
 

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stumblor said:
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but you could also use 5 x CD4021BE 8 bit shift registers, which are chainable. This would reduce the number of inputs required to 3.

View attachment 108912

https://www.arduino.cc/en/tutorial/ShiftIn
Click to expand...

There are certainly a few ways to read multiple switches. Choosing the best approach depends on what you want to achieve and also the environment you are using it in. If the most important thing is the reduced controller pin count then yes a serial solution may be the best approach, but most controllers have at least 13 std i/o pins available these days. Also in my experience serial reads are not the best for pinball where accurate switch reads are concerned and noise can be a factor. Also with a bank select design you can choose to read 1, a multiple, or all of the banks. ie you could separate out the 0 position switches to a single bank and choose just to read those only in some occasions. You dont have to read everything every time.

Anyway just a few musings in reply.
 
Those "songle" relays are in tons of boards, no way are they up to the rating they have stamped on them. Im getting sick of cheap stuff made in china, the number of ws2812B led strings & panels I have chucked away because they are faulty is unbelievable.
 
AlanJ said:
Those "songle" relays are in tons of boards, no way are they up to the rating they have stamped on them. Im getting sick of cheap stuff made in china, the number of ws2812B led strings & panels I have chucked away because they are faulty is unbelievable.
Click to expand...

Welcome to electronics design in 2020! Just buy parts from proper suppliers is my advice (farnell, rs, mouser) and make your own stuff if you want to sell or share projects for others to use/make. The hassle of using crap from china/ebay is just not worth it. Imagine the call when somebody builds one and it sets on fire after the relay locks on....
 
Last edited:
Will this need diodes on the score unit coils for back EMF protection?
 
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