Williams amusements

[beccawadkin]

Best of luck to you.

You'll be the first person in 26+ years then to get anything out of them.

You were lucky with the credit card refund! Congrats!!!!!!!

Thank you. And I honestly won’t stop until I get the remaining £811.82 of the judgment amount, plus the accruing interest and additional fees on top . . . believe me, I’m far from your average human . . . I have made a lifetime habit of achieving things where others have tried and failed, and I’m really not about to stop now! There are literally no lengths that I would not go to, nothing that could ever possibly deter me. I’ll take this as far as I have to, and cause as much damage as I need to along the way.

Yay!! Chuffed for you and I’m sure they’ll be taking that amount from Williams!

They will, of course! Said it will take about 14 days all in all, but they’ll be taking it straight back from them.

Wow great outcome. Think Mark S is owed a pint

WAY more than just a pint!!!

 

[Arv]

I'm surprised they refunded you there and then. Section 75's normally take months.

 

[Alpha1]

I'm surprised they refunded you there and then. Section 75's normally take months.

I was scammed once by someone that I thought I trusted, but obviously shouldn't have, and I sent £800 via PayPal gift, that was backed funded by my MasterCard.

When I realised what was happening I spoke to the credit card company said I'd been asked to pay for via gift even though it was a goods and services transaction and they got me my money back under section 75. Think it took a few weeks.

Edit: just to clarify, the few weeks was from the first phone call to them then confirming their position, and then agreeing the refund. The refund was in my account within 24 hours.

 

[beccawadkin]

I'm surprised they refunded you there and then. Section 75's normally take months.

I have never made a Section 75 claim before today, but in my experience of pursuing previous debit card chargebacks, the financial institution has always refunded me itself initially, pending it completing the chargeback from the retailer further down the line. This is what the credit card company have also done in this case, but they did say that it should only take them around 14 days to complete the chargeback from the retailer anyway.

 

[gnarled112]

S75 is a life saver! I bought a greenhouse 5 years ago from Primrose. Seems they had no intention of ever sending it, a google showed they were essentially a scam with a shed load (heh…) of fake reviewer.

Thankfully quick email to bank and I had my money back a few week later.

Always use a CC!

 

[beccawadkin]

Guess who emailed me today, obviously having had a little read through this thread, asking me whether if he paid me £750 he could come and collect the machine?! I nearly split my sides!

 

[DRD]

@beccawadkin , given that most of us on here buy and sell these things, could I please ask you to clarify something .....

Was the mischief here:

a) that the description by the seller was wrong (ie machine not as described, the warranty you expected was not honoured etc) ?

or

b) that the machine simply failed and required fixing/ money refunded by the seller regardless of what claims he made about it ? Was there effectively a "Statutory Warranty" on the machine ?

I ask as all of us could fall foul of b) as these things are virtually guaranteed to go wrong !!

Many of us won't take PayPal payments for fear of having summary judgements made in favour of buyers.

A pal who is a used car dealer faces fundamental business risks by virtue of potential "Statutory Warranty" claims. He has to build these potential costs into his margins as modern cars give all manner of trouble.

Car Warranties: What is a statutory warranty on a used car?

What is statutory warranty on a used car? Car.co.uk aims to look at some of the most common questions raised by consumers in the UK.

www.car.co.uk

Thank you

 

[beccawadkin]

@beccawadkin , given that most of us on here buy and sell these things, could I please ask you to clarify something .....

Was the mischief here:

a) that the description by the seller was wrong (ie machine not as described, the warranty you expected was not honoured etc) ?

or

b) that the machine simply failed and required fixing/ money refunded by the seller regardless of what claims he made about it ? Was there effectively a "Statutory Warranty" on the machine ?

I ask as all of us could fall foul of b) as these things are virtually guaranteed to go wrong !!

Many of us won't take PayPal payments for fear of having summary judgements made in favour of buyers.

A pal who is a used car dealer faces fundamental business risks by virtue of potential "Statutory Warranty" claims. He has to build these potential costs into his margins as modern cars give all manner of trouble.

Car Warranties: What is a statutory warranty on a used car?

What is statutory warranty on a used car? Car.co.uk aims to look at some of the most common questions raised by consumers in the UK.

www.car.co.uk

Thank you

c) that the retailer broke the law by intentionally and knowingly selling me a faulty, inadequate quality item which was not fit for the purpose for which it was purchased (the determination made by the District Judge at the Small Claims Court hearing was that the machine had been faulty from the point of sale) and then attempting to wash his hands of all accountability.

So in essence a mix of both a) and b), really. The machine certainly was not as described, and the law determined that there was a statutory warranty, exactly as per the link you provided.

 

[JT.]

I ask as all of us could fall foul of b) as these things are virtually guaranteed to go wrong !!

This law only applies to retailers, not private sales

 

[8bit-1up]

Guess who emailed me today, obviously having had a little read through this thread, asking me whether if he paid me £750 he could come and collect the machine?! I nearly split my sides!

I’m assuming they can only recover the dance machine once they have paid the remaining debt owed? Or can they claim ownership now the money has been refunded? Very interested to know who legally owns it now?

Congratulations on getting your money back, I’ve really been enjoying reading your legal journey on this case. Great to see you had such a positive outcome

 

[beccawadkin]

I’m assuming they can only recover the dance machine once they have paid the remaining debt owed? Or can they claim ownership now the money has been refunded? Very interested to know who legally owns it now?

Congratulations on getting your money back, I’ve really been enjoying reading your legal journey on this case. Great to see you had such a positive outcome

The Deputy District Judge recorded at the hearing that I would be happy to negotiate the collection of the machine at no cost and no inconvenience to myself upon full settlement, but did not make this a condition within the judgment, advising that whether or not I chose to do so was entirely at my discretion. I legally own the machine. I do not have to return it under any circumstances.

The final date for payment of the CCJ was 12 December 2024, and evidently this has not been adhered to. To be honest, if he had offered timely payment, I probably would have been more than happy to negotiate the collection of the machine, because I’m actually a lovely, amenable person. But that clearly didn’t happen. If it remains unsatisfied and the debt has to be recovered by High Court enforcement officers, then of course the machine will absolutely be remaining in my possession. In another situation, I guess it just depends on how I feel at the time? Optional means optional, after all. And currently, he really isn’t conducting himself in a manner which would convince me to offer him favourable treatment, let’s be fair.

My journey is still very far from over, so please do keep on reading for more!

 

[Fubar]

But is the game fixed though?! Dance machines are so much fun

Don't forget to post a photo in the dance game thread

Thread 'Dance machines anyone?'

24" title="Oct 25, 2024 at 10:32 AM">Oct 25, 2024

Recently diversified my home arcade and got a dance pad. Great fun for all the family and quite a workout too!

• Fubar
• dance ddr
• Replies: 15
• Forum: Other Games General Discussion

 

[MarkS]

FWIW I would reply to Williams and state you want the CCJ balance settled by end of the week otherwise you will pass it across to High Court Enforcement officers which will then cause them to incur further charges (you could even mention you'll be using DCBL from Can't Pay We'll Take It Away, I'm sure the only thing worse than ripping people off is being shown on TV doing it ). You could sweeten it by saying once the funds are cleared in your account you'll be happy for them to collect the machine at a mutually-convenient date/time. Hopefully you're nearly there!

 

[beccawadkin]

But is the game fixed though?! Dance machines are so much fun

Don't forget to post a photo in the dance game thread

Thread 'Dance machines anyone?'

24" title="Oct 25, 2024 at 10:32 AM">Oct 25, 2024

Recently diversified my home arcade and got a dance pad. Great fun for all the family and quite a workout too!

• Fubar
• dance ddr
• Replies: 15
• Forum: Other Games General Discussion

Not quite yet - until I know for sure whether I’m keeping it or returning it, I don’t want to shell out the money to fix it just yet. But yes, they are ridiculous fun - and I am VERY good at them, too!!! I’ll definitely be visiting this thread!

 

[beccawadkin]

FWIW I would reply to Williams and state you want the CCJ balance settled by end of the week otherwise you will pass it across to High Court Enforcement officers which will then cause them to incur further charges (you could even mention you'll be using DCBL from Can't Pay We'll Take It Away, I'm sure the only thing worse than ripping people off is being shown on TV doing it ). You could sweeten it by saying once the funds are cleared in your account you'll be happy for them to collect the machine at a mutually-convenient date/time. Hopefully you're nearly there!

Oh, he knows all of this, as we discussed it via email just yesterday. Apparently he’s now decided to take legal advice on the matter, this far down the line, but exactly as I said to him yesterday, shouldn’t he really have done so prior to an enforceable CCJ having been issued against him? Not sure what legal professional he thinks he is going to find who will advise him not to satisfy the CCJ, so I have no idea what outcome he is hoping to achieve from that!

 

[jonathan]

Law really is such a beautiful thing. Employment legislation quite literally saved my life five years ago, but that’s another story entirely. The key principle at play here is that whether brand new or second hand, the same three rules always apply regardless; the goods sold must be of satisfactory quality; as described in any listing or marketing material; and fit for purpose.

Strange how a handful of million/billionaires campaigned to remove us from the EU where many of those laws are protected...

 

[beccawadkin]

Strange how a handful of million/billionaires campaigned to remove us from the EU where many of those laws are protected...

I mean, in my opinion, current employment legislation is pretty poor and doesn’t go anywhere near far enough to make it effective for the majority, but if you’re like me and you really know how to amplify those protections, then you’ll just about get by. I appreciate that I am in an extremely fortunate position to possess the knowledge and experience that I do, however, and this is why I do as much as I can to share this with others in the hope that they may benefit too, just as I have. I won a £14,000 compensation payout for a former colleague at Employment Tribunal just last year. Prosecuted the entire case dating from March 2022 through to February 2024 on her behalf, purely out of goodwill. See, I really do believe in karma. I’m a good person who helps others and I have a really good life because of that.

 

[russdx1]

This thread does raise some interesting questions that affects us all. As we know these games do and can randomly just stop working due to cheap to very expensive problems depending on what components fail. If selling a game from one member to another I assume it’s always sold as seen? Ie 2 days later a node board could blown up? Who’s liable for that? I know here we would probably accept a return or do our best to help fix the issue.

Or is the main difference here it was a company selling the game etc.. not just a private sale, so the rules are completely different.

 

[jonathan]

Or is the main difference here it was a company selling the game etc.. not just a private sale, so the rules are completely different.

This. If you're paying a premium and 20% vat on top, then you expect to be covered if it turns up faulty

 

[beccawadkin]

This. If you're paying a premium and 20% vat on top, then you expect to be covered if it turns up faulty

You also expect not to be lied to about the condition of the machine in the first instance. The machine having “a great monitor which does full justice to the stunning graphics” and it having been “refurbed” and “upgraded” “with new hardware and software” so that it was “basically playing like a new one” were entirely fictitious claims.

 

[JT.]

This thread does raise some interesting questions that affects us all. As we know these games do and can randomly just stop working due to cheap to very expensive problems depending on what components fail. If selling a game from one member to another I assume it’s always sold as seen? Ie 2 days later a node board could blown up? Who’s liable for that? I know here we would probably accept a return or do our best to help fix the issue.

Or is the main difference here it was a company selling the game etc.. not just a private sale, so the rules are completely different.

See my previous post Russ - this law only applies to retailers, not private sales

 

[Arv]

You also expect not to be lied to about the condition of the machine in the first instance. The machine having “a great monitor which does full justice to the stunning graphics” and it having been “refurbed” and “upgraded” “with new hardware and software” so that it was “basically playing like a new one” were entirely fictitious claims.

So I'm guessing "the guts" have been exchanged for a PC and monitor or similar?

 

[beccawadkin]

So I'm guessing "the guts" have been exchanged for a PC and monitor or similar?

I believe that there had been no hardware or software upgrade whatsoever, and there was also no sign of any refurbishment. Obviously the monitor wasn’t great, because it could not even display the graphics, full stop! That is definitely not playing like a new one by any interpretation!!!

 

[Bobbdobalina]

This thread does raise some interesting questions that affects us all. As we know these games do and can randomly just stop working due to cheap to very expensive problems depending on what components fail. If selling a game from one member to another I assume it’s always sold as seen? Ie 2 days later a node board could blown up? Who’s liable for that? I know here we would probably accept a return or do our best to help fix the issue.

Or is the main difference here it was a company selling the game etc.. not just a private sale, so the rules are completely different.

Even if the law did apply here, I’m pretty sure everyone knows just how temperamental these toys are and I for one would be ‘hey ho, them’s the breaks, now let’s get this thing working’ if a pin arrived and didn’t work.
Don’t know whether that’s the attitude of most here but it is me.

 

[beccawadkin]

I just spoke to the enforcement officer that I have instructed and they confirmed that their fee will be 30% of the judgment amount - so that outstanding £5,061.82 sum has just very quickly become a bill for £7,231.17! A whole ten times the amount that the original repair was alleged to have cost!!!

 

[russdx1]

Wow that is mental, why did they not just take it back to repair or refund! Everyone knows the second courts and lawyers get involved it gets stupidly expensive.

 

[beccawadkin]

Wow that is mental, why did they not just take it back to repair or refund! Everyone knows the second courts and lawyers get involved it gets stupidly expensive.

Assumed that I’m just a dumb helpless little girl who was all talk and would actually feel powerless and be devoid of the knowledge and determination to do anything about it, I guess? SO WRONG!!!

 

[lukewells]

Wow that is mental, why did they not just take it back to repair or refund! Everyone knows the second courts and lawyers get involved it gets stupidly expensive.

Sounds like you have never heard of Arcade Warehouse / Arcade World / Williams Amusements / Arcade Planet and all the other variations of those names over the last 3 decades then

 

[beccawadkin]

Sounds like you have never heard of Arcade Warehouse / Arcade World / Williams Amusements / Arcade Planet and all the other variations of those names over the last 3 decades then

Don’t forget Arcade Machine Sales / Williams Arcade! What a bad messer!

 

[steve brum]

As Arcade Wornouts .. sorry Warehouse they did bring in 100s of pins confiscated in Italy from the mafia. Picked up 20 of those including some rare titles. If you have a game with a lira coin door it may well be part of that haul