I'd prefer no one got banned over this, including me - so let's keep any discussion polite and respectful.
I've secured a fourth pin after looking for 2+ months. There is a shortage of pins for sale at the moment, especially on this forum.
I think one problem is pricing in the UK pinball community. Pinflation has gone mad and many people haven't adjusted. Stern are charging ~£7.5k for a new Pro (and there’s still a waiting list) and that's driving up the cost of second-hand pins.
I was told that a late 70s/80s pin should be worth £1-2k. This turned out to be unrealistic in practice. I was offered three pins in two months - one by someone I'd met in person and the other two weren't on my (very long) want list. The 'real' price for a newbie with no social connections to other collectors is closer to £2-3.5k for an average-quality 70s/80s pin. Needless to say, once I offered this price, a pin materialised within days.
Likewise, I recently noticed a Shadow being valued at £3k on the 'How Much is this Worth' thread. I'd value a Shadow in mediocre condition at closer to a White Water, and about £4-5k. A mint one would be £5-7k, which is what you'd expect for something slightly less valuable than a new Stern. If you imagine what you get for £7.5k from a new Stern Pro compared to a restored Shadow, many people - especially those of us into older machines - would think you're getting more from the Shadow (IMO) and a mediocre Shadow is not £4.5k less than a really nice one.
The consequences of underpricing pins I've noticed, include:
Given the pricing norm, most pins that come up on the collector market are being sold to an existing collector for whom it’s their ‘nth’ machine. Unless collectors lend their pins to a community arcade like Pinball Republic, this means we’re going to see the same number of pins in fewer homes, which will lead to fewer pins being played
I've secured a fourth pin after looking for 2+ months. There is a shortage of pins for sale at the moment, especially on this forum.
I think one problem is pricing in the UK pinball community. Pinflation has gone mad and many people haven't adjusted. Stern are charging ~£7.5k for a new Pro (and there’s still a waiting list) and that's driving up the cost of second-hand pins.
I was told that a late 70s/80s pin should be worth £1-2k. This turned out to be unrealistic in practice. I was offered three pins in two months - one by someone I'd met in person and the other two weren't on my (very long) want list. The 'real' price for a newbie with no social connections to other collectors is closer to £2-3.5k for an average-quality 70s/80s pin. Needless to say, once I offered this price, a pin materialised within days.
Likewise, I recently noticed a Shadow being valued at £3k on the 'How Much is this Worth' thread. I'd value a Shadow in mediocre condition at closer to a White Water, and about £4-5k. A mint one would be £5-7k, which is what you'd expect for something slightly less valuable than a new Stern. If you imagine what you get for £7.5k from a new Stern Pro compared to a restored Shadow, many people - especially those of us into older machines - would think you're getting more from the Shadow (IMO) and a mediocre Shadow is not £4.5k less than a really nice one.
The consequences of underpricing pins I've noticed, include:
- Newbies being unable to secure a pin in the UK, and being told to check Pinball Owners (mostly overseas pins, which is less practical than it was pre-Brexit), eBay (mainly deludedly overpriced, junk and scams), and retailers - even people looking for popular/common pins like Addams Family;
- People who price realistically being hounded off the forums (e.g. skill posts!);
- Pins priced at the 'community-acceptable' price disappear off this forum within a couple of hours. Viewing a pin requires you to drop everything and take a cross-country trip before it disappears (happened to me), or you're expected to buy blind (a perfect environment for scamming);
- Newbies get frustrated and upset because nothing is for sale (e.g. dude who 'flipped the table' and got banned recently);
- Pins get exported as they're worth more overseas;
- Importing pins seems more expensive/risky than it should because the 'free market' price and the 'community-accepted' price are so different;
- Buying a pin at the 'acceptable' (i.e. below market) price becomes a privilege from being an experienced collector with the right contacts because below-market-price sales happen before a stranger can buy (I'm suspecting this is happening);
- Non-selling sellers faff around not selling, or pull out of sales, because the 'acceptable' price isn't attractive enough for them to close the deal (happened to me twice. Also, to at least one other person);
- The shortage of pins for sale on the open market means people don't want to sell an existing pin incase they can't source a replacement.
Given the pricing norm, most pins that come up on the collector market are being sold to an existing collector for whom it’s their ‘nth’ machine. Unless collectors lend their pins to a community arcade like Pinball Republic, this means we’re going to see the same number of pins in fewer homes, which will lead to fewer pins being played
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