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twister not doing the twist

peanut

peanut

Registered
5Years
Joined
Apr 23, 2015
Messages
50
Location
Coventry
i have just bought a twister pinball but the spinner is not moving at all in play it spins freely by hand and the magnet is working ok i dont know to much about electrics so dont know how to check if its getting power or even what voltage i should test it with on the back of the play board there are 4 wires going to it 2 black which i think are for the magne and 2 white/red stripe these 2 go to a connector with a yellow block fitted between them were can i go from here20150427_142041.jpg
 
Do you get anything in test mode? The magnet is quite complex as it also functions as a "metal detector" (to detect the ball) but the motor function should be quite straightforward. You need to read the schematic so see what voltage should be going to the motor and then see if that voltage is there in the test mode. If it is then it's most likely the motor windings are open and you'll need a new motor, if the voltage is not there then you need to look at the driving transistors (more likely).

Also check fuses and security of connections from the power driver board.
 
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i am very new to this where are the driving transistors and what do they look like nothing in test mode both the magnets seems to work in play disc holds 3 balls
but never spins i was going to put a 12v battery across to see if it works but dont want to break ikt
 
Whatever you do, don't do that unless you're sure it's a 12v DC Motor! Even then you would need to isolate it. You need to check the schematics to see what kind of motor it is. The driving transistors are on the power driver board. I won't regurgitate it all here but methods for checking driving transistors are outlined in PinWiki although it's focussed on WMS games as opposed to Sega but the principles are the same.

I've never worked on a Sega game so somebody might be able to give you a few shortcuts.
 
I believe this is an AC motor, that is switched on via a relay board located under the playfield. The relays are driven by 20v DC. This is the same supply as the flashers. Check if the flashers are working and if not locate and replace the fuse. Remove and inspect relay board, looking for cracked joints around the connector pins.
 
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Relay board is towards middle right of under playfield. Fuse is f7 on driver board.
 
And there's a local fuse f28 for the AC supply to the motor. Not sure where that is but probably near the motor.
 
Great advice from Andy. From your message I see you've now got a manual which will be a great help. You can think of the driving transistors as being solid-state relays - the signal from the CPU that says "switch on this motor / lamp / solenoid" is only 5v and a few milliamps. It can't fire a solenoid on its own but it can 'turn on' a transistor (or transistor pair) and that can switch on (say) 50VAC at 2A to fire a solenoid.

Obviously start with the basics though, especially if there are two fuses and a conventional relay in circuit.

Let us know what you find.
 
cooldan said:
I love it when you guys do teaching
Click to expand...
me too!

@peanut was this feature working when you bought the machine? Moving machines in itself can dislodge wires, connectors etc so give it a close going over in either case. If it is a transistor problem you can check if they are definitely bad with the diode setting on your DMM (doesn't necessarily mean they're good though!) and most are relatively cheap and easy to replace. In my short pinball career I've replaced more than my fair share.
 
hello not long got up i work nights hgv driver i dont think this feature was working as can not recall seeing it spin i am going to read the manual to find out where the fuses are a big thankyou for all your replies

both the fuses are good



is this the relay board and if it is is somthing missing and more importanty why
 

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If the machine is new to you it's best practice to find/test all fuses and check they are the right rating and type fast/slow blow. If a fuse is blown you might be lucky and that fixes it but more likely its a symptom of another problem elsewhere. This is an excellent article which covers DE/Sega up to '95 I'm not sure if there is a newer one but still a lot of the advice is sound
http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/desega/
http://www.pinrepair.com/begin/
 
peanut said:
hello not long got up i work nights hgv driver i dont think this feature was working as can not recall seeing it spin i am going to read the manual to find out where the fuses are a big thankyou for all your replies

both the fuses are good



is this the relay board and if it is is somthing missing and more importanty why
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Looks like it, but need more angles to see what has been hacked together here.
 
here some more
 

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Oooof, what a hack.

So rather than desolder things and fit the relay properly they put some wires between the PCB and the relay? Surely that's more effort than just doing it properly?
 
I guess it's only more work the first time. If they're changing the relay and the wires are already there they might feel it's simpler I guess.

My OCD wouldn't allow me to leave it like that. Or maybe it's my common sense. Not sure which.
 
I'm guessing the pin distance or relay pin diameters were different - therefore they couldnt actually fit it to the board.... Thats the only real explanation....

EDIT - looking again there's too many pins on the relay - So they have taken one off the shelf and just jigged it to fit. Crap, however i can see the logic...
 
I'm guessing this is the relay which should start up the motor right?

Isn't this a standard part on Sega/DE tables? My R&B has a similar relay to drive the Nell Log Motor.

Heh, just saw @Moonrakers link to eBay. Pretty sure it's the same part i've got on mine.
 
Ignore d2 I think. This board can be used to drive either a DC coil where d2 acts as a current snubbed, or an AC motor where d2 should not be fitted as in AC it would conduct 50% of the time. I guess this board was swapped in from another game, and blew the diode out.
 
Right, there are lots of ways to go at this, depending on how confident you feel and if you have a multimeter.

With a meter you should see 28v on the red wire, with your black meter lead attached to a ground point.
If you take a wire attached to ground at one end, and short it to the blue wire (dry), then the relay should activate, you should here it click. If not then either you have no 28V as above or the relay is bad.
If you have 28v and the relay clicks when 'dry' is shorted, but doesnt click on in game play or test mode, then the driving circuit is bad.
If the relay clicks ok when driven in test or game mode, then the fault is in the AC (motor) side of the relay.

If you short the points GND and COIL on the relay board, then you bypass the relay, and the motor should run, unless the fuse is blown, or the motor is bad, or there is no AC supply, or there is a break in connectivity somewhere.
 
thank you for your reply i do have a multimeter ( but don't know how to use it ) i am going to have to wait until someone with a little more knowledge than me can probe it out for me


i have put the relay board back in and put a wire from ground to coil like you said and the motor works
does that mean the problem is in this relay board

quote
if f you take a wire attached to ground at one end, and short it to the blue wire (dry), then the relay should activate, you should here it click. If not then either you have no 28V as above or the relay is bad

no click i think you have found the problem



.so would the one moonraker found on ebay do the job
 
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But you need to check there is 20v at that point first. Otherwise the relay won't click as it has no volt supply.

Power should always be present at that point, it's the ground connection (dry) that is switched in. Use you meter on a DC volts setting. Put the black lead on a ground point, usually the earth braid around the inside of the cabinet, and put the red lead where it says 28v although you're only looking for 20v. If you don't see any volts, then fix the supply voltage. If you do see 20v or so move the red lead to 'dry' and if the relay cool is good, then you should see the same 20v. If not the relay is bad.
 
OK time for a update

the motor powers up and spins when ground is jumped to coil there is power getting to the relay but it don't click over so i have ordered the relay board from ebay usa should have it sometime between the 10th and the 18th so for now i have left that bit alone now i have been playing this for a week now and i have noticed
a couple of other odd things

1) the right hand flipper when i try to hold it open it twiches so keeps flicking the ball away and seems to get worse the longer you play but when i lift the playfield up to have a look and try it it works and holds put the playfield back down and it twiches again only when holding the button in

cleaned the contacts by the button, still the same / only contacts by the flippers themselves open when button pressed so no contact

2) there are 7 targets that spell out twister only 4 work the others don''t looking under there all wired up but are sealed also only t and w light up on the dmd to spell twister

3) now the magnets have stopped working checked all the fuses found f20 blown replaced with another
switch the game on no magnets check f20 blown again twice

i am not having a lot of luck with this machine no wonder the last owner said he did not like it

i think i may well have to call in a pinball repair as i think it is to much for me
 
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hi all

right the relay board has at last been delivered fitted it crossed my fingers and ohhhh yes it works well chuffed with that

while i was waiting i cleaned up the contact wires on the targets and 2 out of 2 they work and spell out twister on the DMD

now going for the hat trick i had a look at the loss of the magnets

when a new fuse is fitted in f20 it blows as soon as the machine is switched on so i removed the 2 fuses from under the play field
fitted a fuse in f20 switched on and it did not blow
so i refitted the fuses under the play field 1 at a time both ok so put both back in at the same time switch the machine back on
well they did not blow but the machine now makes a loud buzzing right from the off tried playing a game and the magnets are working but the buzzing can be
heared over the music so i have switched it back off
 
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