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The OFFICIAL LICENSED 'moans about pricing' thread

Regarding the 90s pins. I was surprised that people are still valuing MMRs so highly. It’s an ok pin but I remember struggling to justify the 6k price tag when it was released.

The IJ up for sale at the moment is crazy money to me.

I’d still like to buy a decent WCS but would probably only pay half of what people believe it’s worth so I guess it’s not going to happen.

I remember the 4k plus Flintstones a while ago on here. How much do you think that’s now dropped by 😱. Could you sell one at 2.5?
 
Colywobbles said:
My fav game at pinfest was TBL and if I hadn’t already committed to Scooby 8mth previously that would have been my last ever NIB.
Roll on only a few month and I got offered 5 from my wanted listing I placed a few weeks ago.

What came in was
2 at £13k
1 at £11k
1 at £10k
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2 people offered their TBL to you for the same price as a NIB?
 
johnwhitfield said:
Regarding the 90s pins. I was surprised that people are still valuing MMRs so highly. It’s an ok pin but I remember struggling to justify the 6k price tag when it was released.

The IJ up for sale at the moment is crazy money to me.

I’d still like to buy a decent WCS but would probably only pay half of what people believe it’s worth so I guess it’s not going to happen.

I remember the 4k plus Flintstones a while ago on here. How much do you think that’s now dropped by 😱. Could you sell one at 2.5?
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Yep, I bought this IJ off the forum 8/19 for £3150. How can that be £7k now🤷‍♂️
I sold a WCS during covid for just over £2k, shouldn’t be much more than that for a good players condition one. Hopefully you can get one at that kind of money.
 

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Marvello said:
Has yesterday's lovely Mandalorian Pro for £5950 made owners of all Stern Pros (and Premiums I suppose) a little nervous? I'm out of space and wasn't even looking for a Mandalorian but even I was tempted, it's practically brand new and has some very nice extras. I personally valued it quite a bit higher.

£2k+ cheaper than current NIB Pros, and that's without taking into account the extras it has.

It's great for the buyer and we all want lower prices, but on a selfish level not when it could affect the value of our own Pins.

Is it a one-off or is that where the market is at right now?
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I do think it was priced low, even as one of the less popular modern titles. I know for sure he has at least 1 other person willing to buy it at that price if the current buyer pulls out...just don't ask me how I know 😜
 
stern have definitely lost their way in the last year or so charging more and more for stripped back less and less , I think the next couple of years at least will see the rise of the smaller and independent manufacturers who will charge stern prem/le money but for a fully loved and loaded games. BTTF by dutch will no doubt be £12-13k single model game but will be packed and will still sell shed loads at that price…same with JJP and Harry Potter (if it’s same packed quality as EJ) they will sell thousands of units at their current pricing for LE and CE’s . Those 2 pins are going to be absolute game changers , and will absolutely make stern have a rethink about the prices they’re charging and the corners they’re cutting.
 
Stern with a Pokémon license will be fine, HP is absolute bobbins no idea why anyone would want that, especially at JJP pricing.
 
Kelsbells said:
stern have definitely lost their way in the last year or so charging more and more for stripped back less and less , I think the next couple of years at least will see the rise of the smaller and independent manufacturers who will charge stern prem/le money but for a fully loved and loaded games. BTTF by dutch will no doubt be £12-13k single model game but will be packed and will still sell shed loads at that price…same with JJP and Harry Potter (if it’s same packed quality as EJ) they will sell thousands of units at their current pricing for LE and CE’s . Those 2 pins are going to be absolute game changers , and will absolutely make stern have a rethink about the prices they’re charging and the corners they’re cutting.
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The quality of TBL is outstanding in every respect and by all accounts they are on the ball with any issues that arise.
I’m so glad some of the smaller independents are getting good licenses. Spooky, barrels and Dutch will hopefully counter the Stern monopoly and go on to bigger and better things.
 
Marvello said:
Has yesterday's lovely Mandalorian Pro for £5950 made owners of all Stern Pros (and Premiums I suppose) a little nervous? I'm out of space and wasn't even looking for a Mandalorian but even I was tempted, it's practically brand new and has some very nice extras. I personally valued it quite a bit higher.

£2k+ cheaper than current NIB Pros, and that's without taking into account the extras it has.

It's great for the buyer and we all want lower prices, but on a selfish level not when it could affect the value of our own Pins.

Is it a one-off or is that where the market is at right now?
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What you have to take into consideration is that Mando pro will have been £6500 nib on release not £8500 as of all game up to Godzilla on release £6500 then price increase up to £8500 so all depends when you bought it
If you bought anything from now it’s going to be £8500 ish retail so work from that
Price are back to normal ish now so expect 1-2k hit there will always be a second hand market as if the don’t sell in masses then the residual value will be higher
 
I think mindset also depends on what else you like to spend spare money on and whether you think if I don't spend it on this machine I can get x or do x. I don't really care about clothes, shoes, handbags. I'd get no more joy from a £300 fancy meal out than a £30 take away. My car was new but not extravagant. It's now hard for me to travel for more than a couple of hours so holidays to America which we use to enjoy or where ever, probably aren't going to happen.

Apart from pinball there's not much else I spend large amounts of money on, so that means if a lose a few thousand on a NIB but it brings me happiness then it's worth it. As I said before, it's going to be different for everyone and I can totally see that some people would get more joy from a nicer car or a holiday or whatever and wait for a reasonable priced used game.

Also I stressed about losing money when selling Aiq and it made me enjoy the hobby less. Since then I've tried to think about it differently.
 
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Kelsbells said:
Yeah sold no books, nobody watched the movies, nobody built theme parks , and nobody will buy the pinball game , worst theme ever 😂
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Not denying it, we’re Universal Passholders so I see it. Adults arguing over what imaginary house they’re in. Watched the films, just don’t get it at all. It’s bobbins to me
 
Jib said:
I do think it was priced low, even as one of the less popular modern titles. I know for sure he has at least 1 other person willing to buy it at that price if the current buyer pulls out...just don't ask me how I know 😜
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I was thinking about where I could put it even though I have no space. Happens with a lot of Pins that come up for sale though, and I'll have moved on from it in a day or two.
 
Kelsbells said:
HP is absolute bobbins why would anyone want that ?!! Err maybe because along with bttf it’s the most wanted /desirable pinball theme globally you can get !
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Yeh, even I might buy a NITB, my kids absolutely love HP. The question though is it hogwarts or the movies? My hunch it will be timed to release a little before the TV series, to drum up publicly, there a small possibility WB might take this into account and allow the movie assets, but IP is big business, Disney being the all time kings in monetising it. Its probably the only reason we are seeing a Ripley aliens due to Disney relaunching the alien franchise soon with I think either a movie or TV thing. There be some data somewhere that says how many machines are in venues in the US. Having a giant advert that never moves and will subconsciously insert the brand into people consciousness might in some instance worth taking the hit on the licence cost, which in the scheme of pr spend to promote movies and TV is nothing, the equivalent of a wetherspoons pint.

I personally don't see NITB machines dropping. Whether there worth the price or not is a different argument. With stern there doing what they always done, feature packed, then strip back and back into nothing, competition will force them to change as what happens with Wizard of Oz jersey jack, without that game we would be getting stern home editions sold at Premium prices. People also forget if your actually in the US a stern pro isn't bad value. The UK market is miniscule, it's always been a core handful of buyers buying NITB, however the difference now is even there going he'll no to NITB prices.
It's sad times for UK pinball, as available stock dictates prices. I think the days of second hand new machines being available quickly will be gone. If you keep a NITB premium for 2 years, and take the hit, it actually works out about £100, that's to play a machine in your house. The equivalent of two dominos pizza orders for a family a month. The real challenge is people adjusting now to the reality that has always been there in the past that these things depreciate, especially if you came into the hobby like I did at the start of tulip times.
 
CHRIS B PINBALLS said:
What you have to take into consideration is that Mando pro will have been £6500 nib on release not £8500 as of all game up to Godzilla on release £6500 then price increase up to £8500 so all depends when you bought it
If you bought anything from now it’s going to be £8500 ish retail so work from that
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I’m not entirely convinced the NIB price is that relevant.
Jaws is never going to be worth 15k to me in any shape or form. Offering it at 12 isn’t going to convince me. Nor is 10k

If a premium came on the market in 5 years time at 7.5k maybe I’d have a little interest but probably not that much.

Just because someone does shell out an insane amount NIB doesn’t mean other people value it anywhere near that amount.

The same works the other way. I remember thinking people were crazy paying 3.5k for a brand new Spider-Man. That doesn’t set the price for today’s second hand version. Similarly I wouldn’t cap a WOZ at its original sales price.

There are only so many people who will pay 7k for a pro. Are they really going to slide upwards just because Stern etc are price gouging?

I think we’ve got a hobby where a lot of people have only known prices to go up. Like all bubbles it’s now burst. The size of the burst is the debatable bit.
 
Don't forget the significant influence of currency; I'm no wiz on this but I'd not bet on it improving in favour of the £££; well saying that about as predictable as Biden !

1707654626038.jpeg
 
Colywobbles said:
We are in a time of PinDeflation !
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It's the NIB prices that are forcing people to take the hit on the difference on what you're asked to pay and what people are prepared to pay.

Previously, the two amounts were much closer together - so people didn't mind a couple of hundred quid.

At a couple of grand, it's cheaper to rent someone else's.

Then they get some payback and you don't take the hit after six months.
 
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PinballNoobie said:
Pinflation... 💷
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My line up end of 2019, for what I paid (all bought off this forum 2019) there is no way if I still had them I would ask over double what I paid back then today.
People would laugh at me, and rightly so. I did make a little bit when I sold them but that covered my time collecting etc which was a bonus.
 

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M4carp said:
My line up end of 2019, for what I paid (all bought off this forum 2019) there is no way if I still had them I would ask over double what I paid back then today.
People would laugh at me, and rightly so. I did make a little bit when I sold them but that covered my time collecting etc which was a bonus.
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Fantastic line up 👌

Well, if you're ever considering selling anything - please let me know.

Promise to pass it on at cost later 🤞🤍
 
PinballNoobie said:
It's the NIB prices that are forcing people to take the hit on the difference on what you're asked to pay and what people are prepared to pay.

Previously, the two amounts were much closer together - so people didn't mind a couple of hundred quid.

At a couple of grand, it's cheaper to rent someone else's.

Then they get some payback and you don't take the hit after six months.
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I bought a JP2 Prem and a TNA CE knowing I'd lose money if I sold them, but I'd played both of them to death on location so knew they were a 'keeper' (at least in the medium term).

If you're someone who swaps pins in-and-out every few months, it's simply no longer cost effective to buy NIB.

I'm booked to rent a JJP Elton John for a month from Monday - I played it a couple of times at London EAG and really enjoyed it, but I'd need to be crazy to spend £12,750 on a pin (at all), but especially to buy one NIB unless I'm certain it's going to stick around when I know JJP G 'n R are now going at £8.5k. It's a bit of a Catch 22, really, because you want to buy second hand, but I'm not really seeing the NIB market.
 
PinballNoobie said:
It's the NIB prices that are forcing people to take the hit on the difference on what you're asked to pay and what people are prepared to pay.

Previously, the two amounts were much closer together - so people didn't mind a couple of hundred quid.

At a couple of grand, it's cheaper to rent someone else's.

Then they get some payback and you don't take the hit after six months.
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Times have changed you cant expect to get back what you paid on a NIB!

People now have to use the analogy of any other expensive toy, Watch or Car whereas you open the box / drive out of showroom and lose at least 25% or more! 2nd hand cars and watches dont lose as much and can pretty much hold their own and same goes for pins.

Like me If you dont wanna take a hit dont buy NIB and just bide your time or better still get a short term trade going. I currently have 2 pins out on free loan and short time swap of Met Prem for a FF prem. This in my opimion os the way forward and I already have my next trade planned out.

Your other suggestion is to rent which isnt cheap as ive done it a few times now. Its £150-200 a month (min 3 mth period) other wise its not worth the hassle for the guy renting them. Also take into consideration there is delivery / return cost on any rental wheather its martin at £100+ or you take a day out and pickup/return bringing a realistic total of £6-700.

I have bought over a doz NIB and being partial to LE's stopped when they topped 12.5k. That doesnt mean I wont ever get another LE just look at the 2 x FF at £11k and after over 2yrs waiting on the CCr's arriving they changing hands after only a few weeks into the country.
As much as I really wanted one when I played TBL at Pinfest I drew the line due to it being £13k. I now own a TBL EA and it cost a lot less than my last NIB a Scooby.
 
Colywobbles said:
Your other suggestion is to rent which isnt cheap as ive done it a few times now. Its £150-200 a month (min 3 mth period) other wise its not worth the hassle for the guy renting them. Also take into consideration there is delivery / return cost on any rental wheather its martin at £100+ or you take a day out and pickup/return bringing a realistic total of £6-700.
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I think it's worth it if you're considering a NIB, but there's not one on location nearby. I'm hoping the month with EJ will help me work out how much I like it and how it stacks up against the pins already here. There's a subtle failure mode where it's good in isolation, but not good enough to get played in my existing lineup.

Renting is cheap compared to the cost of making a purchasing mistake and I don't think there are going to be enough in the UK to wait for one second hand...
 
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