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Raza buying details and Deeproot website live!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Deleted member 2463
  • Start date Start date
If I was a raza buyer I'd be getting my money ASAP

Dear RAZA Customer:
First, I want to wish the amazing Mr. Bowden a very happy birthday. I'm honored he has decided to spend the occasion at work writing up more cool tips for his FunwithBonus.com website. It was nice to catch up with him this morning about RAZA.
While it has been six weeks since our last update, we wish there was more to update on. We are dealing with the same issues most other small and large businesses are. That is, still struggling with some vendors over supply chain and deliveries, unable to hire staff because of labor shortages, and dealing with inflationary increases in parts since we have not been able to execute quick enough. We come in every day and are chipping away at the diminishing obstacles to shipping our first RAZAs.
We want to keep communication open. However, it seems sometimes that these periodic updates don't convey the progress that is happening, nor does it solve the real goal of delivering games. At this point we do not expect to send another mass update about RAZA until after the July 4th weekend.
In the mean time, if some RAZA customers wish to rescind their contracts and request their payments back, we will offer those on a first-come, first serve basis starting June 1, 2021. You can reply to this email or use our online contact form on our website. Please include your name, order number, and a request to rescind the RAZA Purchase Contract. Once accepted, your request is irrevocable.
For those waiting on the wait list, please again do not contact us to check on if you have a machine or not. We will do our best to fill as many requests as we can from the rescinded machines, in order on the wait list, at the end of the RAZA run. Since the list has grown from the last mass email, we cannot guarantee to be able to accommodate everyone.
Best!
-Robert J. Mueller, Principal
deeproot Pinball
 
Cary Hardy recent You Tube update and info from an ex employee is pretty damning.

 
@Neil McRae
I was sent this email from a good friend and to be honest it is disgraceful behaviour.
Here is my prediction. No I don’t watch Cary thingy.

Robert is asking people to request money back reading between the lines. Doesn’t mean he will send any!!!
It will also give the company an excellent reason to go into bankruptcy.
Then Robert will blame all the customers for forcing the company into failure.

Costs of manufacturing has gone up. But has he shown anything being manufactured. Not to my knowledge.

I was really excited and I would personally love a magic girl pinball. But this shows that they now can not afford to make the game for the money they quoted.

I am sure you will know cable prices have risen. That is just one part that has.

Doesn’t help that Robert is another idiot running a pinball company. Another bad manager just like the Heighway days.

But when will people learn?

I would only trust Stern and CGC with advance payment for any pinball.
 
does anyone here actually have money down for this game?
 
M4carp said:
Gold mining in Africa🤣 That’s scamsville too.
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yup - how does anyone take this guy seriously? just a total ****show.

"deeproot to come in and crush them"

Folks get your money back.
 
Nope. Supposed to have given an update about Raza build last week but hasn’t.

They have parts supply issues coming out of their ears and have run out of money by all accounts. They have made it to this point by grabbing US covid bail out money.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
He's totally delusional. It's a shame just how delusional he really is and how many people he has taken on that particular journey.
 
AlanJ said:
Just shows how hard it is to design and produce a pinball machine. Even harder to produce one at a similar price point to stern or even jjp.
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Agreed @AlanJ . Not many can do it. The money that Heighway went thru every month even before hiring premises to make a proto would amaze you.

MartinY said:
He's totally delusional. It's a shame just how delusional he really is and how many people he has taken on that particular journey.
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Yes @MartinY - but he picked a head designer with a bad track record. Was it going to end up another way with Jpop? (Whose work I love, but wouldnt trust him with £1 to go to the newsagent to get a newspaper).

Neil McRae said:
Folks get your money back.
Click to expand...

@Neil McRae - I would of months ago.

I really wish they got things going. I would buy Magic Girl but that is never going to happen now.
 
Pick Holder said:
Agreed @AlanJ . Not many can do it. The money that Heighway went thru every month even before hiring premises to make a proto would amaze you.
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what the fook did they spend it on? design and license, and gearing up. but surely most of the costs come once you gear up to start production. before that it should be a small motivated team who are cost conscious
 
AlanJ said:
what the fook did they spend it on? design and license, and gearing up. but surely most of the costs come once you gear up to start production. before that it should be a small motivated team who are cost conscious
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Not really. The costs of making prototype mechs etc would amaze you.
One off playfields - a fortune.
Artwork.
Hardware costs.
Heighway wasted a fortune using Heber (or Hebber) as they told AH that those boards would run a video and also output video! Basically gambling/fruit machine MPUs.
£1000s got wasted.

Quite a few folk on the payroll as well. I am sure Andrew took a decent wage. Five in the US and the same in UK. This is when we operated out of AHs house.

Oh - and over £2400 on two screens that he attempted to use and then decided to knock on the head as it was too expensive for something so fragile! That is when I put a smaller screen on playfield.
 
AlanJ said:
what the fook did they spend it on? design and license, and gearing up. but surely most of the costs come once you gear up to start production. before that it should be a small motivated team who are cost conscious
Click to expand...
As @Pick Holder has already commented, the costs are just astronomical. I spent over AU$3 million just getting Thunderbirds to a prototype stage. The costs of making mechs and getting everything together are mind boggling. Far in excess of what anyone could dream. Just factory and staff running costs were around AU$6K a week for me in China - and we weren't making any pinball machines for nearly three years - do the math!

As one parts example, I budgeted AU$5K to have a stamping die made for a lock down bar (remember my factory was in China at the time so this thinking isn't unreasonable). The first one simply didn't perform to my expectations so we wrote that off and moved to a more professional mould/die making factory. That one cost me AU$10K but still didn't do the job as expected or required. $15K down the drain and written off and this is just one part from thousands! I can recall similar stories for dozens of other things.

In the end we had a much cheaper mould made and had the lock bars vacuum formed from a heavy, tough plastic which was then glued to a metal frame with automotive adhesive. These work perfectly and, although some commented on "crap plastic lock bars" we have never had a single failure or request for a replacement so they can't be that bad.

Even with VERY deep pockets it's hard to see how anyone can make a go of pinball manufacture.

There is a BIG factor here that many don't consider - a new manufacturer, ANY new manufacturer, is expected to come bursting out of the gate with a SPECTACULAR 'Medievil Madness' beating game, right off the bat! Companies like Stern have the benefit of time. They have had time to evolve from much simpler games to the complex machines they make today. They didn't build The Mandalorian as their first game. Early Stern games bring a lot of criticism for their simplicity and lack of features. Stern was able (with time) to improve things and get better and better with each new release. New companies don't stand a chance if people compare ANY new venture to a company like Stern.

Yes, you can say JJP did a good job with WOZ as their first offering but that was not without its MASSIVE costs that almost bankrupted the company and would have been the end before they even started had it not been for an angel investor stepping in with a massive injection of $$$$, multiple millions I was told from the horses mouth.

My comment to ANYONE wanting to start a new pinball venture is - good luck, you will need it and GOLLOPS of it!
 
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Homepin said:
There is a BIG factor here that many don't consider - a new manufacturer, ANY new manufacturer, is expected to come bursting out of the gate with a SPECTACULAR 'Medievil Madness' beating game, right off the bat! Companies like Stern have the benefit of time. They have had time to evolve from much simpler games to the complex machines they make today. They didn't build The Mandalorian as their first game. Early Stern games bring a lot of criticism for their simplicity and lack of features. Stern was able (with time) to improve things and get better and better with each new release. New companies don't stand a chance if people compare ANY new venture to a company like Stern.
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Agree, problem being Deeproots bravado saying they would be better and build more than everyone else combined etc

Stern on the other hand are putting more rules in and less mechs...
 
I think there is another way: there always is another way: there always is a cheaper way:

1. don’t waste money designing and making stuff that already exists - use stock parts that are already available.
2. you don’t need to make everything yourself to prove or make a prototype. eg use an old cab rather than building a cab making facility up front, use off the shelf electronics wherever possible.
3. use as much sweat equity as you can.
4. keep it simple - no expensive ramps, etc
5. look to challenge the traditional ways, find a cheaper faster way
6. work smart and hard and longer
7. cut costs by not licensing a theme to start
8. cut down the use of wiring to absolute minimum.
9. follow stern: less hardware and more software
10. go retro - who really needs an lcd screen anyway.
11. outsource production (partially or wholly)
12. use grants, tax breaks, govt incentives
13. ……….

ok so you won’t be at the bleeding edge of pinball tech, look at the market for remakes……you don’t need to be!


I believe there will be another UK manufacturer in the future.

Current betting :
@Neil McRae 25-1
@James 20-1
any other runners and riders???
😂😂
 
AlanJ said:
I think there is another way: there always is another way: there always is a cheaper way:

1. don’t waste money designing and making stuff that already exists - use stock parts that are already available.
2. you don’t need to make everything yourself to prove or make a prototype. eg use an old cab rather than building a cab making facility up front, use off the shelf electronics wherever possible.
3. use as much sweat equity as you can.
4. keep it simple - no expensive ramps, etc
5. look to challenge the traditional ways, find a cheaper faster way
6. work smart and hard and longer
7. cut costs by not licensing a theme to start
8. cut down the use of wiring to absolute minimum.
9. follow stern: less hardware and more software
10. go retro - who really needs an lcd screen anyway.
11. outsource production (partially or wholly)
12. use grants, tax breaks, govt incentives
13. ……….
Click to expand...

That’s pretty much a description of how Scott Danesi built the original TNA prototype, and to a lesser extent how Spooky themselves started with AMH.
 
AlanJ said:
I think there is another way: there always is another way: there always is a cheaper way:

1. don’t waste money designing and making stuff that already exists - use stock parts that are already available.
2. you don’t need to make everything yourself to prove or make a prototype. eg use an old cab rather than building a cab making facility up front, use off the shelf electronics wherever possible.
3. use as much sweat equity as you can.
4. keep it simple - no expensive ramps, etc
5. look to challenge the traditional ways, find a cheaper faster way
6. work smart and hard and longer
7. cut costs by not licensing a theme to start
8. cut down the use of wiring to absolute minimum.
9. follow stern: less hardware and more software
10. go retro - who really needs an lcd screen anyway.
11. outsource production (partially or wholly)
12. use grants, tax breaks, govt incentives
13. ……….

ok so you won’t be at the bleeding edge of pinball tech, look at the market for remakes……you don’t need to be!


I believe there will be another UK manufacturer in the future.

Current betting :
@Neil McRae 25-1
@James 20-1
any other runners and riders???
[emoji23][emoji23]
Click to expand...

Mate there is NFW I would go into pinball making.

I’d happily take a job writing code for games but that’ll be when I retire in a couple of years time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
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