Prolapsed disc / Herniation (slipped disc)

[Sako-TRG]

Have a recurring back issue.
This will be the 5th time I’ve herniated a disc in L4-L5.
I’ve always tried my best to work through and not went sick from work. Usually resolved after 6 weeks or so.
This latest episode has been relentless since start of December.
Pain is getting worse - 10-10
Severe back and bilateral leg pain - Sciatica.
First visit to hospital to get something done was pre-covid cause my left leg stopped working properly. By the time I got the appointment I was asymptomatic but the scan still showed disc herniation.
My notes were passed to a Neurosurgeon few years ago who just referred me to pain clinic.
Pain clinic was useless and just told me to do Pilates
So…thinking surgery - pay private or if possible NHS. Has anyone had a Discectomy done and if so how did it work for you?
Also thinking of buying Teeter Inversion table to try and decompress my spine at home.
Im at the stage I’m willing to try anything (even a witch doctor) as pain is excruciating every hour of every day.
I researched the IDD therapy but nearest venue is miles away from me so not practical to do 10 weeks of decompression.
Nightmare ……

 

[J.C.Rox]

Been there, this book helped alot, lots of resting positions to help the back relax, Ive actually bought the book for friends in your position it helped me so much.

Pain Free: A Revolutionary Method for Stopping Chronic Pain : Egoscue, Pete, Gittines, Roger: Amazon.co.uk: Books

Pain Free: A Revolutionary Method for Stopping Chronic Pain : Egoscue, Pete, Gittines, Roger: Amazon.co.uk: Books

www.amazon.co.uk

I blew L4-L5 so badly it was like I'd been hit with an axe. Took me 2 hours to get off the floor into bed then months in bed. Ive had multiple lumbar injections and the bulging disk has receeded but still flares up. Thank god we haven't picked a hobby where we hump massive heavy boxes around!

I now look after myself and focus on simple core exercises like kettlebell swings and keeping the weight down and avoiding inflamitory foods, gluten, caffeine etc and have pain managemnt pills on standby should/when it flares up, but several friends from rugby have had disks shaved and the 6 months recovery sounds like you should try to avoid it if you can. Read the book, rest, recover and focus on how you do everything from standing/walking even getting out of the car slowly and controlled and you'll be up and running, literally, in no time.

 

[Sako-TRG]

^^^ Hey man,

Thank you for the advice and book info, much appreciated.
Know what your saying ref not getting off the floor. When I did this last time I was washing the car. Ended up lying on the driveway and had to leopard crawl down the drive and into the home, neighbours must have thought WTF! This time I was picking up dog sh1t when it happened.
When I seen a senior Orthopaedic nurse at A&E they had to rule out Cauda Equina Syndrome which is a serious complication of herniated disc which can leave you permanently disabled. Reason they tested was because the nerve compression was stopping me having a pee.
Bit embarrassing having a nurse stick her finger up your ass. Especially when she is nice looking. She also said many physicians would avoid back surgery like the plague.
I know of success stories but also failures.
Tiger wounds had 3 x discectomy before having the successful spinal metal implant - fusion.

I’ve got the attached tablets but arent even touching my pain.
I’m not one for taking painkillers but it’s at that stage where it’s give me morphine
@J.C.Rox do you recommend any particular painkiller?
Also, heres some apparatus I’m using:
Currently lying on the wooden block in my lumbar whilst typing this up.
I’ve attached the warning card the hospital gave me …in case anyone else suffers this fate.

 

[Sako-TRG]

Fcuk it, ordered:

 

[J.C.Rox]

Fcuk it, ordered:

Good call. Its tough because everyone and their injuries are different but re Meds whatever works is really the answer. For me it was actually sleeping pills meaning I fully relaxed at night helped, pain pills at night meant i kept waking and never had a good night's rest but sleeping pills helped alot. Daytime was whatever I could get, in the states it was somas, xanek, here cocodimol and vallium, all good stuff!

The book I suggested keeps it really simple, I got my daughter to quickly show the best position to relax with just a chair, think 90 degrees at each bend. Really simple and gives the back a nice way to relax into the floor over about half hour periods.

 

[Sako-TRG]

Good call. Its tough because everyone and their injuries are different but re Meds whatever works is really the answer. For me it was actually sleeping pills meaning I fully relaxed at night helped, pain pills at night meant i kept waking and never had a good night's rest but sleeping pills helped alot. Daytime was whatever I could get, in the states it was somas, xanek, here cocodimol and vallium, all good stuff!

The book I suggested keeps it really simple, I got my daughter to quickly show the best position to relax with just a chair, think 90 degrees at each bend. Really simple and gives the back a nice way to relax into the floor over about half hour periods.

Thanks man, really appreciated..... and to your daughter
Same with sleep, like clockwork i'm waking at 03:00am every night. then my brain latches onto pain. Doesn't help going to bed at midnight every night either.
Driving around the country all the time isn't good. Just had my boss on the phone earlier asking if i can do a job in Netherlands.
Felt like a right **** saying i don't think I can handle it and can I stay local.
The thought of driving to Glasgow, sat on plane, walking along Schiphol airport with luggage, hiring car, then working in a massive distribution centre for two days.
Pffff..... no chance.

 

[RetroHeed]

Not good, severe back pain can be excruciating that is for sure.

Done my back in around 2004 after removing an internal door in the house. Wife found me on the floor when she came back from work. Ended up off work for two weeks and could barely move for the first few days, and had lateral shift. Two weeks later still aching but it cleared up.

In 2009 I ended up with same thing after moving something at home, can't remember what it was, but the same pain and effects were the same as before.

2015 same thing happened again. This time getting up out a chair at work and throwing my rucksack over my shoulder. Had to work through it for a few days then a 2hr drive home. Could not get out the car when I arrived home, well I did eventually but it took like 1hr if I remember right. The effects were as per previous back injuries with lateral shift. Two weeks later slight pain still and returned back to work. Oh and I visited a sports therapist who did some bending and cracking of my back, this proved to be a bad move.

A few days after seeing the sports therapist I started to get tingling in the left leg, then the real ******* pain started. Sciatica !! never felt pain like it before, constant pain down the left leg with what felt like someone had wrapped barbed wire around my leg. Plus the back pain had returned with lateral shift again, not really as bad as before but that bloody Sciatica is the worst pain I have ever felt. The Sciatica lasted about 8months. In that time I had to work through it, absolutely excruciating. I had to do a work trip abroad and I almost didn't get on the flight it was that severe. I did have acupuncture on may back abroad though and that helped a little actually.

I had visited the hospital for some physio, and basically they told me what stretches to do etc which didn't really help. I did manage to get an MRI also which confirmed a slipped disc, L5 S1. I spoke to the docs about surgery they said could be eligible for it, basically they would drill into your back and shave some bone off or something. They told me about a 1% chance it would be successful, no chance I was going that route.

Anyhow I just had to battle through it until it eventually the pain eased and disappeared. Well actually not really, even now I can still feel tingling in my leg every now and again. Now I do not laze about on the sofa or sit in a chair for long, very cautions of it now after that last episode. For long drives I take a 10min break and get out the car and stretch now and then. Rolling up a towel and placing behind your back when in a car or even on a chair can work great for lumbar support also.

The absolute best thing I ever did was learn the McKenzie Method exercises. Honestly the best thing for me and provided relief. I did these pretty much all day everyday at the start when having the Sciatica, you can feel the pain relief from your leg quite quickly. I often do these even now tbh.

Definitely check out these if you can, everybody's pain is different but worth a look. Have a read and view videos on the Mckenzie Method . Exercises 1 to 4 here especially along with 5 if you are able. Excerise 6 and 7 here, no way was I trying them and didn't have to in the end.

https://spineone.com/mckenzie-method-back-pain/

I am pretty certain that my visit to the sports therapist resulted in me having the Sciatica, I highly don't recommend doing that. Actually when I told the wife's mum about that visit she said never ever.... go to them or a chiropractor. She worked in the health board and across from her work there was a chiropractor, she said multiple times ambulance's would arrive at that place to take people away on a stretcher.

Feel your pain here, hopefully it eases itself and quickly.

 

[MarkS]

I actually tore my L5-S1 disc when I put my foot down a rabbit hole when running full pelt playing paintball about 30 years ago. I've broken various bones playing sports and they don't compare to back injuries. The first 2 years of agony were the worst as the "leading back consultant" told me there was nothing wrong and I just needed some physio... even with private health it was a full 2 years until he finally agreed to MRI it and then said "oh well that explains it"

Physio was always the recommended "therapy" - but it just made it worse and caused me even more pain, not surprising when you're aggravating soft tissues around damaged discs and nerves! Sleepless nights on hard floors, just trying to stop the pain. I remember putting it out so badly brushing my teeth one morning I was off work for a week - try explaining that to your manager!

Painkillers didn't touch it (well valium was great but not a long term solution), years of anti-inflammatories didn't help a jot. Finally I had a physio from New Zealand who, seemingly, had been taught differently from the NHS mantra of "if it hurts, do some more physio on it to make it even worse"... she said the most important thing is to be comfortable, she said if that's sitting slightly hunched on the sofa with a couple of beers then do that, there's no bonus points for lying on floors and maintaining correct posture at all times which will just inflame it more... and she was 100% right. Once I stopped the original "NHS advice" it was waaaay better and now my number 1 solution is to make my back comfortable.

Unfortunately another couple of football injuries aggravated it more and being upended and landing on my back left me hospitalised and in a wheelchair for a week. I finally gave up the football which has helped
The disc has completely degenerated now to the point where I just have the displaced vertebrae (spondylolisthesis) pinching the nerve which can lead to the cauda equina - most of the time I have numbness and loss of feeling in my left leg and foot below the knee (if I stretch my leg and stamp my foot between balls it's to stop myself slowing falling over sideways like Del Boy in a wine bar )

I've had the discussion about operating and fusing the vertebrae several times over the years... the risks are always there and I hate having the "choice", I'd rather things got so bad that I had to do it but currently I'm carrying on until/unless it gets too bad. One thing that has definitely helped I think is core muscle strength - I can't stand gyms but as part of our business I lug around 10-25kg boxes a fair bit and that core strength definitely helps with avoiding further stresses and injury on the back.

 

[Sako-TRG]

@RetroHeed thanks so much man, really appreciated.
Gonna check the McKenzie Method exercises for sure. Sciatica for 8 months, fc...........uk that ! I really don't think I could handle that length of time, think i'd jump of a cliff!! I've even been discussing with the Mrs about packing my job in until I get sorted. Feel bad about going sick from work as i never do.... she said just go sick but i feel really consciencious about leaving people in the lurch with our workload.
My pain seems to move around, right now its in my lumbar, right buttock and hip, radiating down to my right shin. Standing and sitting is excrutiating.
When i arrive at my destination, getting out the van is nothing short of torture, I then stand for like 10 -15 mins before i can walk.

I remember kinda having back pain when I used to do loads of running and sports in the Military. That was nothing more than just dull muscle aches and is what I think most people refer to as back pain.
Well, I've found these disc issues are in a whole different solar system altogether. Relentless nagging electric shock misery.

 

[Ashbo]

Feel your pain, extruded my disc T4-T5 at the end of November, I've done my back before but never this bad.

My physio gave me stretches and exercises that I do morning noon and night since my accident. Painkillers and anti-inflammatory drugs messed me up big time and nearly did as much damage themselves.

The pain has now gone, but, at 6ft 5, bending to play pinball makes me really sore and takes the fun out of it. I need to find a better playing position.

Currently I can do the Lyman, that hurts the least, but lose my balance

 

[Sako-TRG]

I actually tore my L5-S1 disc when I put my foot down a rabbit hole when running full pelt playing paintball about 30 years ago. I've broken various bones playing sports and they don't compare to back injuries. The first 2 years of agony were the worst as the "leading back consultant" told me there was nothing wrong and I just needed some physio... even with private health it was a full 2 years until he finally agreed to MRI it and then said "oh well that explains it"

Physio was always the recommended "therapy" - but it just made it worse and caused me even more pain, not surprising when you're aggravating soft tissues around damaged discs and nerves! Sleepless nights on hard floors, just trying to stop the pain. I remember putting it out so badly brushing my teeth one morning I was off work for a week - try explaining that to your manager!

Painkillers didn't touch it (well valium was great but not a long term solution), years of anti-inflammatories didn't help a jot. Finally I had a physio from New Zealand who, seemingly, had been taught differently from the NHS mantra of "if it hurts, do some more physio on it to make it even worse"... she said the most important thing is to be comfortable, she said if that's sitting slightly hunched on the sofa with a couple of beers then do that, there's no bonus points for lying on floors and maintaining correct posture at all times which will just inflame it more... and she was 100% right. Once I stopped the original "NHS advice" it was waaaay better and now my number 1 solution is to make my back comfortable.

Unfortunately another couple of football injuries aggravated it more and being upended and landing on my back left me hospitalised and in a wheelchair for a week. I finally gave up the football which has helped
The disc has completely degenerated now to the point where I just have the displaced vertebrae (spondylolisthesis) pinching the nerve which can lead to the cauda equina - most of the time I have numbness and loss of feeling in my left leg and foot below the knee (if I stretch my leg and stamp my foot between balls it's to stop myself slowing falling over sideways like Del Boy in a wine bar )

I've had the discussion about operating and fusing the vertebrae several times over the years... the risks are always there and I hate having the "choice", I'd rather things got so bad that I had to do it but currently I'm carrying on until/unless it gets too bad. One thing that has definitely helped I think is core muscle strength - I can't stand gyms but as part of our business I lug around 10-25kg boxes a fair bit and that core strength definitely helps with avoiding further stresses and injury on the back.

Jeez, what an absolute nightmare! Thanks for sharing
Thats a long time to be associated with that level of pain and discomfort. Ref having an op, it seems to be:
1. Success
2. Makes no difference
3. Makes you worse
4. Works initially then comes back with a vengance

Once the scar tissue is there, its harder to put right i beleive.
I guess it also depends on the Surgeon expertise.

I mate of mine is an ex copper, said he was gonna kill himself due to the pain. His Mrs was gonna divorce him due to complaining all the time etc.... They eventually gave him an operation and has been right as rain ever since.

 

[Sako-TRG]

https://spineone.com/mckenzie-method-back-pain/

Managed the others but 6+7 impossible for me

 

[MarkS]

The pain has now gone, but, at 6ft 5, bending to play pinball makes me really sore and takes the fun out of it. I need to find a better playing position.

Yeah I'm 6'6 and partly bending over gets quite painful and makes my lower back seize up - I also struggle with washing up, ironing and hoovering What about sitting on a stool? I have my pins as high as they can go really but also tend to lean my weight on them... hurts my hands/wrists more but saves my back.

 

[RetroHeed]

Managed the others but 6+7 impossible for me

Good stuff hope they help. Soon as outta bed or mega sore in morning it was straight for exercise 1 laying on floor for 20mins, or whenever your aching. Anytime on the phone or laptop etc using exercise 2 laying on the floor helped me massively. Sometimes just lay like that for an hour, taking the pain away from the disc hopefully. Then when manage to stand up do exercise 4. Yip exercise 6 & 7 not a chance I was even trying and would not even now, best to try avoid bending forward at all in my opinion.

 

[MarkS]

Thats a long time to be associated with that level of pain and discomfort. Ref having an op, it seems to be:
1. Success
2. Makes no difference
3. Makes you worse
4. Works initially then comes back with a vengance

The list I'm usually given is:

1. Death
2. Paralysis / wheelchair
3. Incontinence / impotence
4. Makes problem worse
5. No change
6. Better

No spinal operation is without significant risks, you just have to judge the likelihood of each of those outcomes and balance it against the pain. There's no doubt the odds have got better over 30 years but...

Managed the others but 6+7 impossible for me

Whoa, just looked at this McKenzie stuff - that's literally the "NHS method" that caused me extended agony for years, they used to print out the same sheet for "homework"! My personal opinion is that's a pile of sh!te that is going to aggravate and inflame your problems indefinitely... when your spinal column / nerves / soft tissue is already inflamed and tender I can't think of anything worse than extreme stretching and mobility exercises. I don't see how bending your spine backwards pinching an already slipped/bulging/torn disc can possibly help... Do everything you can not to aggravate the problem and have a beer (<-- analgesic and mild anti-inflammatory!)

 

[RetroHeed]

The list I'm usually given is:

1. Death
2. Paralysis / wheelchair
3. Incontinence / impotence
4. Makes problem worse
5. No change
6. Better

No spinal operation is without significant risks, you just have to judge the likelihood of each of those outcomes and balance it against the pain. There's no doubt the odds have got better over 30 years but...



Whoa, just looked at this McKenzie stuff - that's literally the "NHS method" that caused me extended agony for years, they used to print out the same sheet for "homework"! My personal opinion is that's a pile of sh!te that is going to aggravate and inflame your problems indefinitely... when your spinal column / nerves / soft tissue is already inflamed and tender I can't think of anything worse than extreme stretching and mobility exercises. I don't see how bending your spine backwards pinching an already slipped/bulging/torn disc can possibly help... Do everything you can not to aggravate the problem and have a beer (<-- analgesic and mild anti-inflammatory!)

The McKenzie stuff worked wonders for me. The stretches the NHS physio gave me were not the McKenzie ones and I couldn't even do them, wish I had kept the sheet they gave me. Everyone will be different but when I arched my spine backwards and kept the cure in my lower back it eased the pain shooting my leg.

 

[MarkS]

The McKenzie stuff worked wonders for me. The stretches the NHS physio gave me were not the McKenzie ones and I couldn't even do them, wish I had kept the sheet they gave me. Everyone will be different but when I arched my spine backwards and kept the cure in my lower back it eased the pain shooting my leg.

Yes sorry I shouldn't have sounded so dismissive of it and everyone will be different... I think it just brought back PTSD type memories of my old physio sessions...! I guess the important thing is to judge whether it's working for you or not.

 

[Ant-H]

Jeez, what an absolute nightmare! Thanks for sharing
Thats a long time to be associated with that level of pain and discomfort. Ref having an op, it seems to be:
1. Success
2. Makes no difference
3. Makes you worse
4. Works initially then comes back with a vengance

Once the scar tissue is there, its harder to put right i beleive.
I guess it also depends on the Surgeon expertise.

I mate of mine is an ex copper, said he was gonna kill himself due to the pain. His Mrs was gonna divorce him due to complaining all the time etc.... They eventually gave him an operation and has been right as rain ever since.

I’ve had a bad Lower back since 96. It would go every few years. But then it really started to hurt in around 2014 when my job was more computer based so was sat at a desk for most the the day.

When it would go, I would literally be hunched over as the pain was unbelievable. And then I had Sciatica in my right leg. Had an MRI scan in the end which confirmed one of my discs had completely collapsed and was pushing against a nerve which was causing the sciatica. They recommend surgery to fix it.

However I choose against it as like you said, the results can be iffy.
My sister inlaw had lower back problems and had her first operation about 15 years ago. Not long after she started having fits, and was latter diagnosed with epilepsy, even though she had never experienced any symptoms before the op. But she was told it wasn’t to do with the surgery . Even now after a further operation she struggles to walk and is only 42.

A friend of the family also advised me against it based on his experience. He had an operation to fix his lower back and now he walks with a limp and has lost a lot of his muscle in his right leg.

So I started to have physio and massaging on my lower back. What really helped was cupping. I also tried acupuncture which I thought wouldn’t do a thing, however it really helped, especially when they connected with electrodes to them.

My back has been pretty good for the past few years now. It starts to hurt slightly if I’m learning over something or I lie on my back. I have to watch what I lift as well but overall it’s the best it’s been in 10 years.

 

[Sako-TRG]

^^^^ some of the stories are very worrying indeed.
Def a firm believer in doing the wrong type of exercise can exacerbate pain.
I though I was on the mend last week then it’s come back 10 fold.
I felt much worse after certain manoeuvres.

 

[johnwhitfield]

Sorry to hear it.

As Mark said above they give you a list kicking off with death and paralysis.

I suspect they are so scared of being sued if they don’t list the possibilities. Problem is they don’t tell you what level of risk it is. ie is it a 1% chance.

Seeing someone wheeled into surgery and the staff going through the list again scarred the crap out of me.

All I can say is surgery can potentially be an utter life changer.

Good luck with whatever you decide.