Pinball machine minimun temperature

[paulg100]

Finally got around to ordering a dehumidifier as i have work to do on some of the pins and garage has much more space to work, but didnt want to worry about them sitting in there for a while.

Had a meter in garage for some time and sits in the high 60's to 70's normally.

So i ordered one of these:

electriQ 10 Litre Smart Desiccant Dehumidifier with Heater DESD9LW | Appliances Direct

Buy electriQ 10 Litre Smart Desiccant Dehumidifier with Heater DESD9LW from Appliances Direct - the UK's leading online appliance specialist

www.appliancesdirect.co.uk

Hopefully it does the job (garage is a good sized double). Ill plumb it through the wall so its on permanent drain.

The humidity seems to have been higher since i insulated the garage doors and did around the edges also. I guess as theres less air moving through the garage now. So it seems insulating is a bit of a double edged sword in its self.

 

[Deleted member 5505]

Science ... ??

 

[Deleted member 5505]

Whadda we think ?

The radiator in there is associated with the upstairs thermostat in the house, was the only way the plumber could (wanted to) do the job. So the heating goes on and off with that (usually early AM and early evening)

 

[Calimori]

60 is fine.
If the temp drops it is likely to go up to 70
You can change the rad valve to one that will measure it's own temp and shut off when not required or go further, ditch the house thermostat and have each rad call the boiler for itself.

 

[Paul]

Whadda we think ?
View attachment 237892
The radiator in there is associated with the upstairs thermostat in the house, was the only way the plumber could (wanted to) do the job. So the heating goes on and off with that (usually early AM and early evening)

Check around 5-6am. Thats the coldest part of the day..... Also the most ungodly.....

 

[Calimori]

So i ordered one of these:

electriQ 10 Litre Smart Desiccant Dehumidifier with Heater DESD9LW | Appliances Direct

Buy electriQ 10 Litre Smart Desiccant Dehumidifier with Heater DESD9LW from Appliances Direct - the UK's leading online appliance specialist

www.appliancesdirect.co.uk

This looks good, nearly bought one but just managed to stop myself, for now.

@Paul has hit the nail on the head, we need more data points. I do have temperature graphs for each zone but I don't have humidity but I can sort of predict the range the humidity will go up to as the temperature drops.
Is the room likely to drop by much from that temperature? If only a few 0C, then it is unlikely to go above 65% RH and you should be fine.

 

[taz turbo]

65% RH is high! At that level of humidity rust will be a concern! 45% and below is the magic number to stop corrosion from happening or continuing.

I have a desiccant dehumidifier in my garage, a bit energy hungry but a cool bit of kit, it doesn’t add any heat as the heat produced is from the heater that dries out the desiccant wheel, that hot, wet air is then exhausted out of the building. Works well, a little on the expensive side, the full stainless steel construction just makes sense in a dehumidifier

EIP - DD200 Desiccant Dehumidifier

EIPL Restoration Equipment - Water Damage Restoration and Drying Equipment, Industrial Dehumidifiers, Cooling and Ventilation Equipment, Desiccant Dehumidifiers, Miliray AirConditioning and Enviromental Control Equipment

www.ebacusa.com

 

[Calimori]

65% RH is high! At that level of humidity rust will be a concern! 45% and below is the magic number to stop corrosion from happening or continuing.

Come on @taz turbo , you are contradicting me and throwing another number at the audience and the internet is full of numbers on this topic. Plus proposing an industrial dehumidifier to solve the issue.
I aim for the 55-60% and haven't had any rusting issues on a pinball machine in my house or cabin. My house was in the high 70's before I started monitoring.

The issue we were discussing is that 60% RH at 13.2oC will be higher if the temperature drops, the RH will go down if the temp rises.
I am stealing a picture from here: https://www.autopyjama.com/permabag-engl/cars/ as it is the best I have seen so far.


100% RH means the air can't absorb any more water at that temperature.
~92.5% RH at 10oC
~67% RH at 15oC
50% RH at 20oC
Below 50% I saw signs of things being over dry in a home environment.
Which shows why the room temperature is also significant because if you are going to change the temperature.
In @Crewey case, if he heats that room to 20oC, the humidity might drop to low 40%. If it goes up to 65% for a bit at 04:00 it is unlikely to be an issue in my unprofessional opinion.

 

[taz turbo]

I’m not out to contradict anyone, it’s a subject I looked into some years ago, when I was looking at safer storage of cars/electronics…

 

[Paul]

Most important and interesting part of that link you put taz to your Dehumidifier....IMO

Methods Of Dehumidification

Dehumidification is possible using two possible principles, Condensation with refrigeration style dehumidifiers and Adsorption with desiccant dehumidifiers. Desiccant dehumidifiers perform exceptionally well when used in cooler climates, or when a low dew-point, deep drying or low humidity levels are required. Since desiccant dehumidifiers do not produce water, they will work effectively down to sub zero temperatures. Their operation is simplistic yet extremely effective and reliable. Air (Process Air) is drawn into the dehumidifier, where is passes over a wheel impregnated with Silica Gel. As the air passes over this wheel, any moisture present in the air is absorbed into the Silica Gel wheel before leaving the dehumidifier as warm dry air. The Silica Gel wheel is continually, slowly rotating, typically at three revolutions per hour. As the wheel rotates, a small portion passes through the regeneration segment. During this phase a second air stream (Regeneration Air) is heated to a high temperature before passing over the wheel. Any moisture present in the wheel is released into this air stream; this hot wet air is then exhausted outside the area being dried.

 

[Paul]

65% RH is high! At that level of humidity rust will be a concern! 45% and below is the magic number to stop corrosion from happening or continuing.

If that were the case then my office (inside the house) would be full of rust... Readings above the Radiator currently show Temp of 18.3C and RH of 50%.....

 

[kev a]

Intresting graph.....

Anyone else heat the inside of their games?
My dehumidifier keeps the garage in the low 60s, but in the winter I pop some vivarium heaters in the base of the cabs and run the cable through the coin door (easy to remove to play)

They raise the temps and lower the R/H inside the game and in theory should draw a small ammount of air in through the front and exit the back box via convection.

No issues in 4+ years despite low temps and much cheaper than heating the entire garage.

 

[M4carp]

90% plus in my garage quite a bit, things aren’t rusting in there. I also have a car air chamber in there that I put a brand new car in for 3 years and hardly used and even the discs didn’t rust. Even though the humidity was very high quite a lot of the year.
All the nuts and bolts were like new 3 years later, air movement helps a lot.

My pinroom in there is sealed and kept about 50%, you need a sealed area for them to work really.
Just put a car in tonight that I picked up for less than a Pinbot from one of my sons

I also have LGR dehumidifiers that work down to 0c but that’s another option, not cheap.

Saying all that, I just remembered I had a new Transit that was kept in the garage the rotted within 6 years (crap)

 

[M4carp]

Intresting graph.....

Anyone else heat the inside of their games?
My dehumidifier keeps the garage in the low 60s, but in the winter I pop some vivarium heaters in the base of the cabs and run the cable through the coin door (easy to remove to play)

They raise the temps and lower the R/H inside the game and in theory should draw a small ammount of air in through the front and exit the back box via convection.

No issues in 4+ years despite low temps and much cheaper than heating the entire garage.

I read on pinside by a well know person who recommended heater mats inside the pin.

 

[kev a]

I read on pinside by a well know person who recommended heater mats inside the pin.

I think it may have been a thread on pinside that gave me the idea.
Figured it can't hurt as they only provide a gentle warmth.

 

[paulg100]

all the sheet steel, box section, parts on me nice dewalt and mekita power tools etc are oxidized after a few years in the garage. and thats at high 60's into high 70's RH.

NO way id want to leave a pin in there without taking some kind of steps to combat.

 

[Deleted member 5505]

In @Crewey case, if he heats that room to 20oC, the humidity might drop to low 40%. If it goes up to 65% for a bit at 04:00 it is unlikely to be an issue in my unprofessional opinion.

Earlier this morning temp was 9.6c and 60%, heated up for a short while and it was soon 19c and down to 49%.

 

[Paul]

Earlier this morning temp was 9.6c and 60%, heated up for a short while and it was soon 19c and down to 49%.

Personal non-professional oppinion - i cant see any issues/problems with those figures at all

 

[M4carp]

The only thing I have read about that can cause damage with low temperature is with the old ss mirrored backglasses, it can cause the art to bubble off.
Not sure how true that is though.

 

[MarkS]

I have a friend whose Combat back glass peeled/bubbled from the low temperatures so you definitely don’t want original back glasses in low temps.

Isn’t condensation and dew point the biggest risk? I would have thought if the temperature drops to 4-5C and then you rack up the temp you are at risk of moisture condensing on parts?

IMO for this a better alternative to radiators and central heating, even with a TRV to control the temperature, is an electric radiator. The quality of these nowadays is excellent and they are really good for topping up room temperatures without relying on central heating which you don’t want on all night. So for example you could set it to 12C overnight and it stops the risk of the temp dropping too low. We use it in one of our rooms that is quite cold and has inefficient underfloor heating and it helps regulate it independently of the central heating.

 

[M4carp]

Agree with the above, I just use a cheap dehumidifier that is set to constant now that it is getting cold and just top the room up in the early hours for 30 mins with a fan blower on 1.5kw. My room is in a garage and 8.5m long so not a small room but did insulate it when I built it.

This mornings reading, both temps in room.
Garage was about 6c and 88%, no place for a pin.