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Pinball machine minimun temperature

Stags6969

Stags6969

Registered
5Years
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
814
Location
Mansfield
I have 3 modern sterns in an insulated room, housed within a timber frame garage.
Now the weather has started to drop cold, I have invested in a dehumidifier to keep the round at around 50-55% humidity.
What about temperature though?
What is the minimum I should be allowing this to go, to prevent damage to my machines?
Thanks
 
It's the damp more than the temp tbh mate so IMHO you should be good with your de-humidifier :thumbs: I'm sure others might disagree but I've kept games in garages and my cabin in absolutely baltic temps and not had any issues. Some games stored for literally years in the cold and as long as you let them come up to room temp before turning them on (so you don't get condensation) they've all been fine.
 
My garage is insulated but not heated. Just this week I’ve started a ticking over an oil filled rad on low. It’s 12c currently. If I’m going out there I whack it up full for an hour and it gets up to 15/16 ish. Whilst I’m out there.

I tried a condenser dehumidifier but it was too cold to operate it and it froze over pretty quick. Ideally they need to be above 17c
If you’re choosing a dehumidifier for the garage, be sure to get a desiccant one as it heats as well.
 
You have invested in the right tool for the job. Keeping the moisture out stops the white rust that eats them inside out.
Also I’m sure the humidifiers do expel some heat but correct me if I’m wrong.
 
They certainly do Col. Not enough to heat the room, but you can feel some heat radiating from them.
 
I have all my pins in the garage and have a temp controlled ceramic heater and a dehumidifier on a humidity plug. It's amazing how much moisture it pulls even if nobody's been in there for a week.

Through the winter I set the heater to 9 degrees and have had no issues whatsoever. If you come from outside and it's in the minus then 9 degrees feels pretty warm.
 
A desiccant dehumidifier is a must, and in an insulated garage it will keep the temp well above freezing (unless your garage is huge)

As I understand it the biggest danger aside from damp, which a dehumidifier should eliminate, is big swings in temperature. That’s because things expand at different rates, as temp rises, and that can cause cracks or planking in paint on the playfield

Having said that, I have a radiator in the garage set to frost guard, so it only kicks in if necessary if the temp falls below 7. But when I go in the garage I jack the temperature up to 17 or 18 and that 10 degree swing has never caused any damage..
 
Humidity is the enemy here.

Cold/heat in the UK not so much.

Direct sunlight in extreme cases can warp ramps and plastics. Even fade paintwork on older games.

Humidity or damp will cause issues. Tarnishing is not great on a pinball machine.

In a garage type building I would say just keep them covered when not in use - whatever time of the year.
 
Just tried a little experiment with the heater.
Temp was at 12.4°C and humidity at 56.9%
Ran the heater for an hour and the temp rose to 18.2°C and humidity dropped to 49.8%
So I guess this is probably the better way, but maybe more expensive.
 
Stags6969 said:
Just tried a little experiment with the heater.
Temp was at 12.4°C and humidity at 56.9%
Ran the heater for an hour and the temp rose to 18.2°C and humidity dropped to 49.8%
So I guess this is probably the better way, but maybe more expensive.
Click to expand...

Trouble is all that is doing is lowering the relative humidity rather than the moisture that's actually in the air. As soon as the temperature drops the RH will come straight up.

We run a dehumidifier and the amount of moisture it removes is quite eye opening. It's not the driest climate in the world we live in.

I did wonder about desiccant packs under the playfield and in the backbox but don't know if that's necessary a good idea as the other side of the wood would be in damper air. And imagine forgetting about them and crating it up. Would look dodge on an x-ray 😂
 
I've had my machines in an unheated conservatory for the last 3 years and they're fine, no problems. I have a Meaco dessicant dehumidifier in there that keeps the humidity at 50%. Due to the way dessicant dehumidifiers work it also puts out a bit of heat, so even when it's sub-zero outside the temperature doesn't drop below 10C.
 
lozzauk said:
Trouble is all that is doing is lowering the relative humidity rather than the moisture that's actually in the air. As soon as the temperature drops the RH will come straight up.

We run a dehumidifier and the amount of moisture it removes is quite eye opening. It's not the driest climate in the world we live in.

I did wonder about desiccant packs under the playfield and in the backbox but don't know if that's necessary a good idea as the other side of the wood would be in damper air. And imagine forgetting about them and crating it up. Would look dodge on an x-ray 😂
Click to expand...
Yeah that is what happened. So chalk that off as a failed experiment. And it is far more expensive than running the dehumidifier
 
Rob zombie said:
I've had my machines in an unheated conservatory for the last 3 years and they're fine, no problems. I have a Meaco dessicant dehumidifier in there that keeps the humidity at 50%. Due to the way dessicant dehumidifiers work it also puts out a bit of heat, so even when it's sub-zero outside the temperature doesn't drop below 10C.
Click to expand...
I also have a Meaco dessicant typae and that keeps the humidity between 50 and 55, must be the built in limits.
Now I know temperature isn't a massive issue I will just run the Meaco to keep the humidity in check.
Thanks everyone for the comments
 
Stags6969 said:
I also have a Meaco dessicant typae and that keeps the humidity between 50 and 55, must be the built in limits.
Now I know temperature isn't a massive issue I will just run the Meaco to keep the humidity in check.
Thanks everyone for the comments
Click to expand...
Depends which model you have. I have a condenser type that doesn't have much in the way of controls and cuts off at 50%. But my dessicant ones (Zambezi) can go down to 35%...but obviously that wouldn't be very energy efficient.
 
To geek out.
A desiccant dehumidifier has an intake fan on the front with silica pads on the fins. The moist air is drawn in through the fan. Moisture is extracted by the silica pads and the centrifugal force forces the water out into the collection tank. A heater then heats the silica pads to dry them and the warmer dryer air is extracted out the top. Which is why desiccant dehumidifiers also produce heat.

That’s two mins of your life you won’t get back. Sorry bout that
 
Can anyone recommend a good desiccant dehumidifier for a large room? Ideally with a big tank so it doesn’t have to be emptied that often.
 
The meaco DD8L is good. They need to be emptied every 12 hrs anyway as they fill up. Even more frequently if you’re drying clothes. Some have a continuous drain pipe if you can get it outside somewhere
 
I've got this one upstairs https://amzn.eu/d/f3Hq6E1

And a Meaco DD8L Junior in the conservatory, and a DD8L Zambezi for downstairs that can run during the night when it's cold. They're all really good so it depends on your needs. They all need emptying daily. The Zambezi several times a day. So I'd probably go for the 20L one.
 
Rob zombie said:
I've got this one upstairs https://amzn.eu/d/f3Hq6E1

And a Meaco DD8L Junior in the conservatory, and a DD8L Zambezi for downstairs that can run during the night when it's cold. They're all really good so it depends on your needs. They all need emptying daily. The Zambezi several times a day. So I'd probably go for the 20L one.
Click to expand...
I too have the DD8L junior.
Nice little unit.
What settings do you run it on?
 
Stags6969 said:
I too have the DD8L junior.
Nice little unit.
What settings do you run it on?
Click to expand...
I leave it on 2 drips, 2 fan speed. I might start using the ioniser as that takes any mould spores out of the air, but not needed that so far in the conservatory.
 
I would concur on humidity is the major concern, however...

Pre man cave some of my machines were in my conservatory, I only heated it when I'd go in there, when the heating would warm up all the cold surfaces would start to condensate, I lost a Sega model 3 video board due to condensation 😞 After that the heating just stayed on 24/7 at about 16 degrees.

I do wonder on the effect of temperature change, what exactly does cause planking for example? Is it to do with expansion/contraction of the base wood, if so is this due to temperature or moisture change?

IMO insulation in our games areas is key, my cave is 60 square meters, heated/cooled/dehumidified by a split AC system, when I'm not in the room the heating is set to 15-16 degrees and the energy consumption is negligible, which gives me a comfortable feeling within myself. It also means when I want to play I can either turn up the heating 1/2 - 1 hour before I want to use the room, or just turn on the machines and after about an hour with them on it's plenty warm in there.

Chris.
 
Yeah, it's the temperature change that's the problem. When warm air hits a cold surface it condenses water. In our house in wet Wales I can't have any furniture up against the external walls without risking mould forming. We've even had it behind coats hung on an external wall. So there's two main problems; temperature changes and lack of airflow.
 
This thread has made me panic, I've ordered a humidity meter to check my room as it's a converted garage with 4 pins currently.
What % should alarm bells be ringing, and means I need a humidifier in there?

Thank you
 
There are loads of points here that are key.
We should be measuring humidity and temperature, both are important and have a relationship.
Air absorbs moisture, the warmer the air, the more moisture it can absorb, as that air cools, the humidity will rise as that moisture trys to escape. Heating the air will make it drier, cooling air will make it damper.
Warming a room with high humidity will lower that humidity but cold spots in a room will have a humidity issue as the warmer air will cool and humidity will form. Condensation on windows.

Autumn has additional issues as we have had regular warm air circulating spaces and then the temp will drop, causing humidity to rise. Adjusting the relative humidity to the new temperature is the aim. But then once the room temperature has balanced, removing too much moisture via a dehumidifier can cause an overdry issue. Because any cooler air that then comes into the space, air circulation, will have less moisture and when warmed, will be too dry. My house was damp for years, then one year it dropped to 45% after I ran the dehumidifiers as normal during October.

We have also discussed desiccant dehumidifiers vs compressor dehumidifiers.
The general view is that desiccant works better at lower temperatures <10oC where a decompressor dehumidifier will not work very well. However, they use more electricity because they heat as part of their process.
So with one you will need to heat up the space a little to get it to work but it may work better once at that temp. With the other it will produce heat to work and so will heat the space.
Hard to recommend which one to use in anyone's environment but keeping the space at a good base temperature will also help against thermal shock, especially if you come in the space and heat is anyway.
 
I just picked up one of these yesterday (arrived today) and it seems really good... May do a review on it for here... https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0CB9TMSZB - https://en.linknlink.com/eths

New bit of kit.... I actually wanted their e-motion sensor, however they are that new that they currently arent available.

Cheap at £20 - I have a sensorpush also, however those are now £50+ (where this seems to give the same functionality, however use Wifi - the sensorpush uses bluetooth which means a much shorter radius of connectivity).

Calimori said:
We have also discussed desiccant dehumidifiers vs compressor dehumidifiers.
The general view is that desiccant works better at lower temperatures <10oC where a decompressor dehumidifier will not work very well. However, they use more electricity because they heat as part of their process.
So with one you will need to heat up the space a little to get it to work but it may work better once at that temp. With the other it will produce heat to work and so will heat the space.
Hard to recommend which one to use in anyone's environment but keeping the space at a good base temperature will also help against thermal shock, especially if you come in the space and heat is anyway.
Click to expand...
So my personal experience. I used to have an Ebac Dehumidifier. Fridge type - not dessicant. Would only work above around 12C - which is great in the summer... however not when you need it most... Our weather means that in the summer the humidity is generically lower. In the winter when colder the humidity is much higher.
Then i picked up a dessicant dehumidifier. Yes, it uses more electicity... however as mentioned it heats the air slightly, which allows it to pull the moisture from the air. Dont be expecting it to be like a sauna in there... just a small heat.. enough to allow it to "work"..
 
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