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Pinball LED thoughts and opinions. Helping others see the light.

Colywobbles

Colywobbles

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So I’m sure this has been discussed many times and pinside is awash in opinions of how best to LED your pin.
Over the years I’ve tried many different options from the cheap and cheerful to the colour matched high end stuff that can easily hit £2-300 at today’s prices.
So getting a few classics this past year has got me experimenting again.
FYI I won’t be taking them to minty heaven standard but do want to give them a modern look and feel I’ve grown used too.

I realise each pin should dictate where we head for example the likes of BSD & Creech screaming out for Warm White GI whereas DM & JM rocking Cold White in the GI.
My last big Resto was SM where I used a full Comet Colour coordinated set in the PF and cheaper Cold White LEDs in the PF and it looked super nice.
I know SM really needed the afterglow control for certain modes but it was heading out the door and at the time none were available.

So a few questions that have me wondering are:

What do others prefer and why ?

I’ve never used them but are Comet Sunlights for GI a halfway house between cold and warm?
Are they also a less harsher alternative to Cold White and a little brighter than warm?

Is afterglow type boards a must when you LED a pin or only when the game code uses fading effects like BSD?

If using Afterglow type boards do they totally negate ghosting and flicker letting you buy cheaper bulb alternatives which are half price or less than Comet?

I have started tinkering away using the BOP I recently acquired and have tried a few alternatives.
So far the only bulb that hasn’t shown signs of ghosting are the Comet single SMD. This is how we will probably end up but I’ll keep posted.

Finally apologies to the purists and their love of incandescent bulbs. I do realise pinball can be a personal taste thing but it's just not for me!
I also like the idea of taking some stress out of those overworked power boards that have served the pin so well over the past 20-30yrs.
 
Yes, using Comet Sunlight's in the GI looks amazing on most games and I would highly recommend them for a brighter, but more natural look. I have them in most of my games GI and they look amazing. First used them in Indiana Jones after Phil recommended them and was amazed how much better they made the game look.

As you say less harsh than cool whites and brighter and more natural than warm whites.
 
Colywobbles said:
Is afterglow type boards a must when you LED a pin or only when the game code uses fading effects like BSD?
Click to expand...

I think you're thinking of LEDOCD GI or afterglow GI.
Personally I put a normal ledocd/afterglow in all my games, with Comet 2smds, warm, cool or sunlight depending on insert colour ( I don't do colour matching it's a faff and too intense, afterall the inserts are coloured right?). Plus with the 2smd you get the proper fade as they don't have a resistor in them.

For GI, nearly every wpc89-wpc95 has fading effects so I use sunlight 2smd for nearly every game and an afterglow GI or ledocd gi

I use cool white in games that have a lot of blue, like Black Hole and Flash. I used to be against cool whites thinking they were sterile and cold but with those two games they work perfectly.

Now Creech I tried with warm white and I hated it, the warm washed out the art whereas sunlight brought it to life.

If there's a game that benefits afterglow GI it's Creech, the lightsbow on that is beautiful! Tied with an afterglow (inserts) it's stunning.

I can't have a wpc without afterglow/ledocd GI anymore, you're missing out on so many effects, I'd probably have the gi one over the inserts if I couldn't afford both.

I never put coloured LEDs in GI, it ruins the art and makes it hard to see the ball and artwork. In rare cases I'll use one or two if it doesn't affect the above but it's rare.

As I only use 6 types of led (warm, cool and sunlight 2smd in wedge and bayonet) I can have a stock of them without worrying about counting each individual insert and which colour it is.

If an insert is blue, I'll use cool white. If it's orange/red I'll use a warm white. Anything else sunlight.

Hope that helps

(Oh and frosted for GI except in rare cases)
 
I experimented quite a bit with LED's on my Shadow last year, I was quite happy with colour matched 50p leds for the inserts. I think comet or 2smd bulbs may be a little too bright on a 90s game.

Have a mix of cool/warm white for the backbox and upper playfield (still cheapos) depending on the colour of the plastic they are under.

For the ball guides or places where the bulbs are visible I like the frosted Comet sunlight's.
To provide a bit more lighting I also have the 4+1 tower bulbs in the slingshots and have also added spotlights with 4Led bulbs which makes the centre much more visible, If I LED another game I will use this as a template, only changing for specific areas as its pretty cost effective, but a big improvement.
 
David_Vi said:
For inserts? If frosted and with a ledocd/AG they're fine.
When people talk about colour matching often those LEDs are 2smd or more! With no lens, which is really bright!
Click to expand...
Yeah frosted may be ok, I have 2/4smd in my CSI they were way too much even on a newer game, but with LEDOCD I toned them down a bit.
I stuck the cheapo's in Shadow initially because I had them laying around (and was short of cash after a new pickup) but really liked the light level, just a little brighter than bulbs, which feels about right.

That being said, when I tried them with afterglow they were too dim.
 
I always go Comet LEDs and always colour match inserts. For GI I usually go warm white, as I find some of the cool white a bit bright. I always use frosted too.

I guess it’s all down to personal preference, I prefer them to be a bit softer and more keeping with incandescents, but some games I have seen make me want to wear sunglasses 😎
 
I was watching this last night 👇👇

I love the way all the colours pop on it. Apparently he's used something called purple white which has created a lovely glow.

Is there a database to show which lamps are needed for each game? I seem to remember doing something similar when I did my Judge Dredd

 
Gonzo said:
I was watching this last night 👇👇

I love the way all the colours pop on it. Apparently he's used something called purple white which has created a lovely glow.

Is there a database to show which lamps are needed for each game? I seem to remember doing something similar when I did my Judge Dredd

Click to expand...

Shows how tastes vary. I think that theatre looks horrendous (for the most part, it might just be the video), coloured gi in low light makes your eyes strain and washes out the art.
It might look better without the coloured starpost lights, just seems like overkill! The opposite to pop to me. The spotlights are great though!

At least he has a ledocd GI tho👌🏻

Prime example, look at the fire on the translite. It's a red mess, all the detail and different colours in the artwork are gone, just red. I understand it's taste but I cant understand why you'd want to lose the artwork Screenshot_20231103_163056_YouTube.jpg
 
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Gonzo said:
Is there a database to show which lamps are needed for each game? I seem to remember doing something similar when I did my Judge Dredd
Click to expand...

Not that I know of, maybe you're thinking of rubbers? The manual will list all the inserts and which type of bulb it is.
I just do a rough count of the GI and inserts .

You can get led kits but I think for the most part they are hit or miss, everyone has different taste.

I'd recommend just buying a few comet 2smd in different whites and try them then order what you need after counting the inserts. It's always good to have a few spares to experiment with!
 
JAG555 said:
Comet do kits and they list what is needed.
Click to expand...

Issue with them is they come with non ghosting LEDs so if you want to add a ledocd you're almost paying double and losing some of the fade effect due to the resistor. Plus you might not agree with some of their colour choices.
 
David_Vi said:
I think you're thinking of LEDOCD GI or afterglow GI.
Personally I put a normal ledocd/afterglow in all my games, with Comet 2smds, warm, cool or sunlight depending on insert colour ( I don't do colour matching it's a faff and too intense, afterall the inserts are coloured right?). Plus with the 2smd you get the proper fade as they don't have a resistor in them.

For GI, nearly every wpc89-wpc95 has fading effects so I use sunlight 2smd for nearly every game and an afterglow GI or ledocd gi

I use cool white in games that have a lot of blue, like Black Hole and Flash. I used to be against cool whites thinking they were sterile and cold but with those two games they work perfectly.

Now Creech I tried with warm white and I hated it, the warm washed out the art whereas sunlight brought it to life.

If there's a game that benefits afterglow GI it's Creech, the lightsbow on that is beautiful! Tied with an afterglow (inserts) it's stunning.

I can't have a wpc without afterglow/ledocd GI anymore, you're missing out on so many effects, I'd probably have the gi one over the inserts if I couldn't afford both.

I never put coloured LEDs in GI, it ruins the art and makes it hard to see the ball and artwork. In rare cases I'll use one or two if it doesn't affect the above but it's rare.

As I only use 6 types of led (warm, cool and sunlight 2smd in wedge and bayonet) I can have a stock of them without worrying about counting each individual insert and which colour it is.

If an insert is blue, I'll use cool white. If it's orange/red I'll use a warm white. Anything else sunlight.

Hope that helps

(Oh and frosted for GI except in rare cases)
Click to expand...
I agree with everything you've said.

Either frosted subtle LEDs with an OCD/afterglow type product, or leave it incandescent. Anything in-between is half-****d, and you're throwing away too much otherwise. If you don't care about that then you don't need this advice!

I will add that LED flashers can be very very bright - experiment, but be mindful they can be too much if the light is directed at your face e.g. the 2 inlane flashers by the flippers on LOTR. It's just too much! Hard to reach flashers are worth doing, but easily accessible might be better left alone.
 
David_Vi said:
Shows how tastes vary. I think that theatre looks horrendous (for the most part, it might just be the video), coloured gi in low light makes your eyes strain and washes out the art.
It might look better without the coloured starpost lights, just seems like overkill! The opposite to pop to me. The spotlights are great though!

At least he has a ledocd GI tho👌🏻

Prime example, look at the fire on the translite. It's a red mess, all the detail and different colours in the artwork are gone, just red. I understand it's taste but I cant understand why you'd want to lose the artwork View attachment 236631
Click to expand...

Yeah mate, the backglass is all wrong . . .agreed.

It was that purple hue around the playfield which I liked
 
Coloured LEDs in the back glass can be done more tastefully. My TOM has the 3D Translite and carefully chosen colours. Chirs B did the playfield LED's and they look amazing in person (Difficult to capture on camera). Many are clear Sunlight white Comets. Clears often look better than frosted unless it's going to be directly in your line of sight. i.e. not under a plastic or behind something.
 
Andypc said:
Clears often look better than frosted unless it's going to be directly in your line of sight. i.e. not under a plastic or behind something.
Click to expand...

More evidence that LEDs are an individual taste thing. I find frosted better for GI because the light is dispersed out the sides illuminating the playfield and clears create hotspots on the artwork on the plastics above.

I think clear can make a game look more modern as it seems to be what stern use.
 
Andypc said:
Coloured LEDs in the back glass can be done more tastefully. My TOM has the 3D Translite and carefully chosen colours. Chirs B did the playfield LED's and they look amazing in person (Difficult to capture on camera). Many are clear Sunlight white Comets. Clears often look better than frosted unless it's going to be directly in your line of sight. i.e. not under a plastic or behind something.
Click to expand...

That looks really nice mate
 
Marvello said:
Didn't someone say use purple in orange inserts as they look great?
Click to expand...
Colour match inserts if you like otherwise a cool white is perfect for all inserts imo.

Warm white LEDs in orange inserts work nicely but this was the older way of doing it when yellow and orange LEDs sucked!

Now I would just colour match inserts with the corresponding colour if you’re using a quality LED like comets.
 
Gonzo said:
Thanks mate

What's that then? I can't just fit led's without a board?
Click to expand...

It makes the LEDs smooth. You know how incandescents fade on and off? LEDs are either on or off and it can be harsh and ruin light shows. The ledocd or afterglow smooths them out. It also stops ghosting.
You don't need one and most people don't use them but some of us are OCD 😂

You can get non ghosting LEDs instead of the afterglow/ledocd to stop the ghosting.

You can get an ledocd for the GI too, nearly all wpc games have dimming effects on the GI, so during dramatic moments the gi dims, with LEDs they wil flicker so you turn off dimming in the game settings. With a ledocd GI or afterglow GI you can have the dimming effects.

I might have a video of creechs lightshow with the afterglow GI in, it's so beautiful!


Note: Afterglow is @stumblor 's version of ledcod
 
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David_Vi said:
It makes the LEDs smooth. You know how incandescents fade on and off? LEDs are either on or off and it can be harsh and ruin light shows. The ledocd or afterglow smooths them out. It also stops ghosting.
You don't need one and most people don't use them but some of us are OCD 😂

You can get non ghosting LEDs instead of the afterglow/ledocd to stop the ghosting.

You can get an ledocd for the GI too, nearly all wpc games have dimming effects on the GI, so during dramatic moments the gi dims, with LEDs they wil flicker so you turn off dimming in the game settings. With a ledocd GI or afterglow GI you can have the dimming effects.

I might have a video of creechs lightshow with the afterglow GI in, it's so beautiful!


Note: Afterglow is @stumblor 's version of ledcod
Click to expand...

Spot on mate, I absolutely get it now. Thanks for explaining. I think I'll need a board then.
 
Gonzo said:
Spot on mate, I absolutely get it now. Thanks for explaining. I think I'll need a board then.
Click to expand...
Here's an example of LED OCD in my CSI.
I'm not too bothered by the digital on/off of LEDs, but in one part of the attract sequence the lights flash very rapidly and the strobing was harsh on the eyes.


If your thinking of one its better to get LED's without resistors (eg not non ghosting) as the resistors block a little bit of current so need around 40% power to start lighting up, that way you lose a little bit of the smoothing effect.
 
kev a said:
Here's an example of LED OCD in my CSI.
I'm not too bothered by the digital on/off of LEDs, but in one part of the attract sequence the lights flash very rapidly and the strobing was harsh on the eyes.

Click to expand...
Wow that's a great example of LEDOCD. 🤩 Hypnotic
 
kev a said:
Here's an example of LED OCD in my CSI.
I'm not too bothered by the digital on/off of LEDs, but in one part of the attract sequence the lights flash very rapidly and the strobing was harsh on the eyes.


If your thinking of one its better to get LED's without resistors (eg not non ghosting) as the resistors block a little bit of current so need around 40% power to start lighting up, that way you lose a little bit of the smoothing effect.
Click to expand...
Fish tales is terrible but they all are to me without Afterglow.
Put one in The Shadow and much nicer, got rid of the ghosting too.
Dirty Harry also has one, so much better. I only use premium 2 non ghosting fluted LED’s everywhere except the backbox which just has the cheapies in white/warm white.

The Afterglow board does steal some brightness, so make sure you get bright enough leds.

View attachment trim.9D036142-9CC0-4C0A-8405-009318F8E418.MOV
 
kev a said:
Here's an example of LED OCD in my CSI.
I'm not too bothered by the digital on/off of LEDs, but in one part of the attract sequence the lights flash very rapidly and the strobing was harsh on the eyes.


If your thinking of one its better to get LED's without resistors (eg not non ghosting) as the resistors block a little bit of current so need around 40% power to start lighting up, that way you lose a little bit of the smoothing effect.
Click to expand...


Thanks mate, I do appreciate it.

The whole thing is so confusing and packed with abbreviated language so thanks for the video.

I think I'll get a comet kit and then add some additional colours in . . . in fact I might just get someone else to do it 😂
 
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