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Pin2dmd going blank

Hi, just been reading this thread. I made up that power lead for the pin2dmd. Similar to what you get with a colordmd for Bally/Williams.
I seem to remember that the display went blank once or twice when I had it. Try removing the power cable and re-fitting it. Seem to remember that's what I did. If it still does it I could send you another power cable to try.

Garry
 
Creech is notorious for power issues, mainly when in multiball and creech is lit (jackpots really help)... it normally affects the flippers which is when most people first find out of the issue. Many players never manage that (!) so it can go un-noticed for years.

Dropping 4.89v to 4.83v is probably enough to cause the issue you're describing, regarding loss of graphics. I'd replace the caps on the 12v and 5v lines first to see if that sorts it.
 
Moonraker said:
Creech is notorious for power issues, mainly when in multiball and creech is lit (jackpots really help)... it normally affects the flippers which is when most people first find out of the issue. Many players never manage that (!) so it can go un-noticed for years.

Dropping 4.89v to 4.83v is probably enough to cause the issue you're describing, regarding loss of graphics. I'd replace the caps on the 12v and 5v lines first to see if that sorts it.
Click to expand...
I played a little yesterday evening and noticed ghat when any flashers operated there was interference in the pin2dmd. It's a machine that I haven't fully shopped since buying around 2013 and it really needs a full teardown. It's been through Pinball Heaven at some time in its life as it has their supplied by PH instruction cards but I expect late 1990s or early 2000s (not sure how long Phil has been going) but it is long overdue its second teardown.

Jackpots don't trigger the failure. Only extra ball.

Thanks for comments confirming my suspicions.

Paul
 
After I fitted an HD PIN2DMD to my TZ, I was having occasional resets of the MPU and freezing of the display, as well as opto issues. I wondered whether the 12V supply was under strain so I moved the PIN2DMD feed onto the 18V lamp driver supply which seems to have helped. I put a croc clip on TP8 since the feed doesn't leave the power/driver board.
 
My tp8 is reading 16.6v in attract which seems a little low. But isn't that too much for the pin2dmd requiring 12v?
 
Asiapinball said:
My tp8 is reading 16.6v in attract which seems a little low. But isn't that too much for the pin2dmd requiring 12v?
Click to expand...
It's the unregulated supply to the 12V feed so it can vary. I think the PIN2DMD has a buck/boost converter on board which can take up to 36V input, at least it says so on the pcb.
 
Garry Sp8 said:
Hi, just been reading this thread. I made up that power lead for the pin2dmd. Similar to what you get with a colordmd for Bally/Williams.
I seem to remember that the display went blank once or twice when I had it. Try removing the power cable and re-fitting it. Seem to remember that's what I did. If it still does it I could send you another power cable to try.

Garry
Click to expand...

Will try that, thank you.

Any thoughts on the attract mode 'glitch'? - Do you recall it looking the same?

Mike
 
Moonraker said:
Creech is notorious for power issues, mainly when in multiball and creech is lit (jackpots really help)... it normally affects the flippers which is when most people first find out of the issue. Many players never manage that (!) so it can go un-noticed for years.

Dropping 4.89v to 4.83v is probably enough to cause the issue you're describing, regarding loss of graphics. I'd replace the caps on the 12v and 5v lines first to see if that sorts it.
Click to expand...
Well, if it's related to a lit creech - in my case that will be a very rare occurrence 😂
 
Mike Parkins said:
It's the unregulated supply to the 12V feed so it can vary. I think the PIN2DMD has a buck/boost converter on board which can take up to 36V input, at least it says so on the pcb.
Click to expand...
Mike,

On my pin2dmd there is an unpopulated space on the board for two pins at 8 - 36v dc but these just buzz continuity to the respective ground and 12v pins on the 12v dc power pins marked wpc. Presumably you didn't bother populating with 2 pins but just used the already populated 4 pin connector to feed the 18v?

And indeed it does have the xl4015e1 buck boost converter on board.

Also noted that there is unpopulated space for a 5v supply too that also buzz continuity to the 12v populated pins.

Paul
 

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Asiapinball said:
Mike,

On my pin2dmd there is an unpopulated space on the board for two pins at 8 - 36v dc but these just buzz continuity to the respective ground and 12v pins on the 12v dc power pins marked wpc. Presumably you didn't bother populating with 2 pins but just used the already populated 4 pin connector to feed the 18v?

And indeed it does have the xl4015e1 buck boost converter on board.

Also noted that there is unpopulated space for a 5v supply too that also buzz continuity to the 12v populated pins.

Paul
Click to expand...
I used the screw terminal which my panel came with but the Molex connector should be fine - Maybe Davey could confirm that.
1672581855018.png
 
Mike Parkins said:
I used the screw terminal which my panel came with but the Molex connector should be fine - Maybe Davey could confirm that.
View attachment 190110
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Thanks, Mike. Mine is without screw terminal and I dont have a spare one and annoyingly it isn't the usual 0.156 inch pins so can't go that route either. And I can't find online schematics to check. Looks like a temporary hack is coming.
 
Asiapinball said:
Mike,

On my pin2dmd there is an unpopulated space on the board for two pins at 8 - 36v dc but these just buzz continuity to the respective ground and 12v pins on the 12v dc power pins marked wpc. Presumably you didn't bother populating with 2 pins but just used the already populated 4 pin connector to feed the 18v?

And indeed it does have the xl4015e1 buck boost converter on board.

Also noted that there is unpopulated space for a 5v supply too that also buzz continuity to the 12v populated pins.

Paul
Click to expand...
The 4 pin 5V (SAM) connector is strictly 5V. The 8-36V connectors (X1and WPC) drive the 5V regulator - where as using the SAM connector bypasses the 5V regulator (XL4015 and its supporting passives). I think leaving that connector unpopulated is a good idea as sticking anything greater than 5V on the SAM connector will cause a few problems!
 
Tried taking supply from 18v and still have the same issue. I think its time to do some work on the power driver board.
 
Reseating power cable helped. Now playing fine all modes achieved ( except super jackpot) no blank display. I had earlier re-aligned the pin2md as a small gap was showing. This maybe didn’t help .

All that remains is the odd green part of the attract sequence. I will try re-writing the colour files onto the card.

All earlier help and input greatly appreciated.

Mike
 
I'm really intrigued by how the DMD gets into that state because the two 'scenes' it's displaying are kind of nowhere near each other and it should be impossible! Here is the 'normal' attract sequence order shown on first boot:

1. Bally logo
2. "and"
3. Universal logo
4. "present"
5. Creech main title
6. Dot mation animation
7. credit count/insert coin/freeplay/press start
8. GC high score
9. hall of fame - high score 1
10. hall of fame - high score 2
11. hall of fame - high score 3
12. hall of fame - high score 4
13. replay at score
14. "say no to drugs" / pin2dmd credits
15. "game over"

Beyond this it starts to loop around on itself, but there are some differences between loops, some extra scenes and so on (and some easter eggs! I don't think Stumblor found his name yet ;)). But from the picture you showed, you are seeing a combination of step 3 and step 10!! Impossible! If replacing the files doesn't help, can you confirm if the same artefact is shown if you remove both the colour files from the SD? (pin2dmd.fsq and pin2dmd.pal, don't remove anything else). I guess my last question on this is where - in the above sequence - are you seeing this artefact? Is it when the universal logo shows, or when score 2 displays, or both, or something else? And is it always this same artefact/mix of the universal logo and score 2?

Is ROM corruption a thing?
 
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slippifishi said:
I'm really intrigued by how the DMD gets into that state because the two 'scenes' it's displaying are kind of nowhere near each other and it should be impossible! Here is the 'normal' attract sequence order shown on first boot:

1. Bally logo
2. "and"
3. Universal logo
4. "present"
5. Creech main title
6. Dot mation animation
7. credit count/insert coin/freeplay/press start
8. GC high score
9. hall of fame - high score 1
10. hall of fame - high score 2
11. hall of fame - high score 3
12. hall of fame - high score 4
13. replay at score
14. "say no to drugs" / pin2dmd credits
15. "game over"

Beyond this it starts to loop around on itself, but there are some differences between loops, some extra scenes and so on (and some easter eggs! I don't think Stumblor found his name yet ;)). But from the picture you showed, you are seeing a combination of step 3 and step 10!! Impossible! If replacing the files doesn't help, can you confirm if the same artefact is shown if you remove both the colour files from the SD? (pin2dmd.fsq and pin2dmd.pal, don't remove anything else). I guess my last question on this is where - in the above sequence - are you seeing this artefact? Is it when the universal logo shows, or when score 2 displays, or both, or something else? And is it always this same artefact/mix of the universal logo and score 2?

Is ROM corruption a thing?
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So spent a while watching display. That is the first sequence after start up. The stills are the first sequence after a game has ended.

Will now try an new Micro SD card.
 
Am doing this one change at a time. Copied files to new SD - no improvement - removed card - display runs reduced colours - same error Universal with HS 2 overlaid. BUT this time says No More Drugs - I have never seen that before.
 
Annualman said:
Am doing this one change at a time. Copied files to new SD - no improvement - removed card - display runs reduced colours - same error Universal with HS 2 overlaid. BUT this time says No More Drugs - I have never seen that before.
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So, the error you have is with the game, not the colourisation. I think you already re-seated the ribbon cables and ROMs?
 
Yup, looks like it. New Colour files made no difference, and removing both of he colour files - again no difference - except it now says no more drugs.

Will go through connectors again - am I right in assuming this is related to the Pin2DMd - or is it the main machine?

Yours, ignorant, but learning,

Mike
 
@slippifishi or @MadNat have more knowledge about Pin2DMD than I do (I only got my first one a couple of months ago) confirm, but I expect it is an issue with the game roms or delivery of data through ribbon cables / DMD driver board. For example I had an issue with sound playing randomly on my TAF (same age / system as creature) and that turned out to be a faulty ribbon cable (the long one with 4 connectors on it). You have random generation of visual rather than audio, but it is all just data. I would swap out the ribbon cables if you have spares, or at least pull them off an reseat them (being careful not to bend the pins and t get them back in the correct place; it is easy to offset the connectors by a row when putting them back on).

Paul
 
OK so FYI the say no to drugs screen is what I use for my credits so that's why you don't see it when the colour files are present/it gets replaced.

Like @Asiapinball said above this definitely looks like a data issue of some sort - the fact it is so consistent would make me suspect its the ROM itself. It looks like you don't have the GC score display turned on in the settings so it goes straight to high score #1, but actually seems to be showing two random frames from the Universal logo - you can actually see it stepping back and forth between two frames, which mirrors the behaviour of the light surround on the other attract screens - these are made up of two frames to give the impression of the lights chasing themselves. Then the display normally updates and "scroll transitions" into high score #2, and that's where we can see it suddenly appear in your video, followed by the scroll transition to #3 and #4. It's as if the ROM has got the frames for "Creature hall of fame" mixed up with the universal logo, like a memory address is wrong.

Definitely try a different cable if you can as it will be quick and easy, or else maybe it's worth trying a new ROM, if they aren't too expensive to source? I see you are running v4 but I understand there is a v5 now available which fixes a few bugs and things, though others here with a real Creech probably know more about that than me, I am just reiterating what I've read on pinside and know my colour files are compatible with that version too :)

We can see the same score text interrupting the match sequence, and the glitches shown in photo 3 are probably a result of it getting out of sync with itself because of the unexpected frames including the score.
 
I have a v5 ROM on the way from Soren. Happy to send you the old v4 one (known good) once it arrives for testing if you like?
 
Ped said:
I have a v5 ROM on the way from Soren. Happy to send you the old v4 one (known good) once it arrives for testing if you like?
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That's a kind offer. I have been wondering about the V5 - is it a worthwhile improvement? Or does it 'spoil' the original gameplay?

Mike
 
slippifishi said:
OK so FYI the say no to drugs screen is what I use for my credits so that's why you don't see it when the colour files are present/it gets replaced.

Like @Asiapinball said above this definitely looks like a data issue of some sort - the fact it is so consistent would make me suspect its the ROM itself. It looks like you don't have the GC score display turned on in the settings so it goes straight to high score #1, but actually seems to be showing two random frames from the Universal logo - you can actually see it stepping back and forth between two frames, which mirrors the behaviour of the light surround on the other attract screens - these are made up of two frames to give the impression of the lights chasing themselves. Then the display normally updates and "scroll transitions" into high score #2, and that's where we can see it suddenly appear in your video, followed by the scroll transition to #3 and #4. It's as if the ROM has got the frames for "Creature hall of fame" mixed up with the universal logo, like a memory address is wrong.

Definitely try a different cable if you can as it will be quick and easy, or else maybe it's worth trying a new ROM, if they aren't too expensive to source? I see you are running v4 but I understand there is a v5 now available which fixes a few bugs and things, though others here with a real Creech probably know more about that than me, I am just reiterating what I've read on pinside and know my colour files are compatible with that version too :)

We can see the same score text interrupting the match sequence, and the glitches shown in photo 3 are probably a result of it getting out of sync with itself because of the unexpected frames including the score.
Click to expand...
thank you for all your input - much appreciated - I am suspecting the ROM. Cables all look good, and I think recently replaced when was restored by previous owner.
 
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