What's new
By:
Pinball info

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

New UK pinball event - Daventry August 25th & 26th 2018

Wizcat said:
So with a different system, for example - one that picks players randomly, you'd accept that the best players could eliminate each other in the early rounds with some close matches, and the final could be the top seed completely crushing a much lower seeded player... and you think that would be preferable to having the crunch matches later in the tournament?

Just curious, because if the World Cup Final comes down to Brazil vs Saudi Arabia, and Brazil win 13-0... people would think it a farce.
Click to expand...

But as we know with pinball we could have the total reverse of this due to lady luck.
 
Wizcat said:
So with a different system, for example - one that picks players randomly, you'd accept that the best players could eliminate each other in the early rounds with some close matches, and the final could be the top seed completely crushing a much lower seeded player... and you think that would be preferable to having the crunch matches later in the tournament?

Just curious, because if the World Cup Final comes down to Brazil vs Saudi Arabia, and Brazil win 13-0... people would think it a farce.
Click to expand...

If Saudi Arabia get to the final it will be on merit, by beating all the teams on the way. Therefore they will have deserved to get to the final. If it did happen I would expect that it wold be the largest TV audience ever.

The groups in the World Cup that generate the most interest are the "groups of death" where the big names meet each other early on.

Would you prefer something like this?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-c...i-admits-fixing-1998-world-cup-draw-increase/
Michel Platini fixing the initial seeding to generate a favourable draw to get the 'best' final.

Or do you mean a farce like Germany beating Brazil 7-1 in the Semi last World Cup.

Or are you comparing Peter to Sepp Blatter?

To get away from Football, because there are just too many differences to make any reasoned argument.

There is no seeding applied before the competition in the German Open, Belgian Open, Flip Expo, Xmas Cracker, World Cup Revisited, UK Cup, Shine Charity Competition, Play Expo Pinball Battle, UKCS Hangover, As Yet Unnamed, or any other number of competitions. I don't think you can say that these are "knock about fun comps with your mates" or that the formats produced a Brazil-Saudi Arabia scenario.

The winner of everyone single one of these comps played the best on the day, or 2 days, and merited their win, they didn't need seeding, If they knocked out the "favourite" before the final what difference does that make?
 
The only thing seeding achieves is making it easier for the established players to negotiate the early rounds, knocking out 'lesser' players.
It means they get a guaranteed handful of points, even if they aren't performing at their best - at the expense of the newer, less experienced players.
Hardly the way to encourage people to participate in more comps, it's splitting the players in to two groups (those who chase WPPR pts and those that don't), and even worse it's growing the divide. The best players shouldn't needed any artificial help.

If the rankings are so true, I'm better than Will Dutton, NIck Marshall & Stan Simpson. I'll take that, but quite frankly don't care what I am ranked at. I know my own ability, I have a good idea of others abilities, having played against them a lot. What I don't like is having rankings applied which are clearly flawed (and even if they're not) used to influence who I, or anybody else, will play against before a competition has even started.

Exceptions are obviously SCS & UKCS as the clue is on the name.
 
Wayne J said:
There is no seeding applied before the competition in the German Open, Belgian Open, Flip Expo, Xmas Cracker, World Cup Revisited, UK Cup, Shine Charity Competition, Play Expo Pinball Battle, UKCS Hangover, As Yet Unnamed, or any other number of competitions. I don't think you can say that these are "knock about fun comps with your mates" or that the formats produced a Brazil-Saudi Arabia scenario.

The winner of everyone single one of these comps played the best on the day, or 2 days, and merited their win, they didn't need seeding, If they knocked out the "favourite" before the final what difference does that make?
Click to expand...

Fair points! I guess the main argument you're making is that qualification shouldn't be match-play? I guess that's how the UK Open used to work a few years back, with best game style qualifying. I have to admit I enjoyed that format and it does seem fairer during the qualifying stages, though I'm not sure what changes IFPA introduced since that probably affects how it scores for ranking...

At the end of the day though, it's Pete who is determining the best format and I'm sure he's considering things like available machines, time limitations, number of players and so on. As we all know. it's no simple task and I'm glad there are people out there taking on these challenges.
 
No problem with match play in first round.
Just that it shouldn't be seeded.
Bastardising a format just to get max WPPR is to the detriment of building competitive pinball and bringing in new people IMHO.

I know that it's Peter who is running the comp, but am I not allowed to voice my opinion and concerns, without people resorting to cheap jokes and insults?

FWIW, I am quite proud of being Rated the 100th best player by the IFPA, with over a 29% Eff%ge which is 239th, but known it means absolutely nothing if you don't play well. Those metrics go down every time you lose.

Whatever happens I'll be entering, as it's the competition I like, competing against players on the day, not chasing pts. I'll also be offering to be a steward (as I have every single year) on the Saturday before the league finals take place on the Sunday.

With so many people voicing opinions it should be the most heavily stewarded comp ever. I know from discussions with Peter that one his concerns for the comp was lack of volunteers.
 
Wizcat said:
So with a different system, for example - one that picks players randomly, you'd accept that the best players could eliminate each other in the early rounds with some close matches, and the final could be the top seed completely crushing a much lower seeded player... and you think that would be preferable to having the crunch matches later in the tournament?

Just curious, because if the World Cup Final comes down to Brazil vs Saudi Arabia, and Brazil win 13-0... people would think it a farce.
Click to expand...


No I wouldn't, if a team get anywhere it's on merit,they won.ANYONE can beat a brilliant player once in a while,that's why I love it
 
Wayne J said:
No problem with match play in first round.
Just that it shouldn't be seeded.
Bastardising a format just to get max WPPR is to the detriment of building competitive pinball and bringing in new people IMHO.

I know that it's Peter who is running the comp, but am I not allowed to voice my opinion and concerns, without people resorting to cheap jokes and insults?

FWIW, I am quite proud of being Rated the 100th best player by the IFPA, with over a 29% Eff%ge which is 239th, but known it means absolutely nothing if you don't play well. Those metrics go down every time you lose.

Whatever happens I'll be entering, as it's the competition I like, competing against players on the day, not chasing pts. I'll also be offering to be a steward (as I have every single year) on the Saturday before the league finals take place on the Sunday.

With so many people voicing opinions it should be the most heavily stewarded comp ever. I know from discussions with Peter that one his concerns for the comp was lack of volunteers.
Click to expand...

I'll help fix comp machines ?
 
Wayne J said:
Bastardising a format
Click to expand...

As I have already explained this format is not a dream't up bastardised format. Seeding is done to keep it fair and even for everyone. With the best players split between the groups it gives everyone a chance to take them down and qualify in one of the top 4 places.

Wayne J said:
am I not allowed to voice my opinion and concerns, without people resorting to cheap jokes and insults?
Click to expand...

That is generally what happens when you leave yourself open to ridicule.

Wayne J said:
Those metrics go down every time you lose.
Click to expand...

So try entering a few tournaments of note such as the European Championships then or some of the other countries opens... Selective participation does help keep the rating high.

Wayne J said:
I know from discussions with Peter that one his concerns for the comp was lack of volunteers.
Click to expand...

Using a different, suggested format by you, it would have been very heavily dependent on volunteers. This head to head format requires the winner to enter the result substantially reducing the number of volunteers required and is a small bonus side effect with using it.
 
Wayne J said:
I have now withdrawn from the IFPA ranking. I am happy to face any player in any round. If I lose so be it, I don't want help in getting further in the tournament to gain pts, by being paired up against "lesser" players.
Click to expand...

Don't do it!

Wayne J said:
FWIW, I am quite proud of being Rated the 100th best player by the IFPA, with over a 29% Eff%ge which is 239th
Click to expand...

There it is. And so you should be!
 
cyberkryten said:
Was looking at getting the VIP so we can come and play for fun in the evenings, but will machines be available all weekend (outside of competition games) and how many competition games will we get if we don't progress (looks like nine games for each)?
Click to expand...

All the machines in the donation thread - http://www.pinballinfo.com/community/threads/ukpinfest-pinball-machine-donation-thread.38629/ - are available to play for the entire weekend in every session. Friday evening, Saturday, Saturday evening and Sunday.

Peter is donating the competition machines and they're not in the above list.

All machines are free to play. The event is advertised that way.
 
Last edited:
Big Phil said:
Peter is donating the competition machines and they're not in the above list.

All machines are free to play. The event is advertised that way.
Click to expand...

Thanks Phil, I got a bit confused between the event and the competition. 2x VIP booked and I'll call the hotel back tomorrow to book a room as the weekend staff don't know anything about it!
 
Yea I would like to know what games are the competition games, I am not going to get very far, but I am going to give it a go.

I am looking forward to whoever is the seed in my group, I actually like watching great players play, hopefully I can learn from them :)
 
Moonraker said:
That is generally what happens when you leave yourself open to ridicule.
Click to expand...
Leaving yourself open to ridicule ???
Our head to head comparison over the last 3 years. 19-11.
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20180617-203636_Samsung Internet.jpg
    Screenshot_20180617-203636_Samsung Internet.jpg
    123.4 KB · Views: 45
tenor.png

Hope these two don't get put in the same round to begin with, but I am guessing both are seeded...​
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom