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Monster Bash Remake leaked

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Munsters will probably outsell MBR by a mile.

Especially from the type of game it seems to be. Quote from someone who has seen it.

"If you like, Monster Bash, Scared Stiff, Addams Family, Haunted House, Class of 1812, Creature.....etc.... Don’t matter if you watched the show or not this game will be up your alley."
 
Replay said:
Munsters will probably outsell MBR by a mile.

Especially from the type of game it seems to be. Quote from someone who has seen it.

"If you like, Monster Bash, Scared Stiff, Addams Family, Haunted House, Class of 1812, Creature.....etc.... Don’t matter if you watched the show or not this game will be up your alley."
Click to expand...

Wow so pretty much confirmed a lower play field... Super excited about Munsters so much potential...
 
CV is definitely an alright game but is mostly an eye-candy machine - so it commands more money than it is worth in gameplay as happens a lot nowadays for certain themes and games (hello TAF!)

The only things 'wrong' with MMr are:
  1. It's not an original so the all-original-parts type of collectors aren't interested
  2. LEDs on boards instead of bulbs - lot of people don't like SMD parts, as if it was still the 90s and it wasn't possible to get very good quality tools (hot-air rework stations etc.) for little money
  3. It costs fecking thousands
 
Wonder why the images are so crap? I know there was (is?) an NDA in force for testers, but if a unit has been shipped to a "private party" then there is obviously going to be photos taken.
 
Does MMr do LED dimming or is it like Tron LE where you're basically s**t outta luck if you want dimming (as LED OCD isn't compatible with Stern's light boards).
 
Durzel said:
Wonder why the images are so crap? I know there was (is?) an NDA in force for testers, but if a unit has been shipped to a "private party" then there is obviously going to be photos taken.
Click to expand...

From the backlash on Pinside seems to be a tester who sneaked the photos... They are all worried further opportunities to test new machines won't be made available
 
Durzel said:
Does MMr do LED dimming or is it like Tron LE where you're basically s**t outta luck if you want dimming (as LED OCD isn't compatible with Stern's light boards).
Click to expand...
Fully dimmed for the incandescent effect, right outta the box.

As I said, the only problems with the remakes are the money they command, and you need a finer hand and more than a crude soldering iron to repair them yourself down the line.
 
You'd think those giant light boards would be much more reliable though. One connector to the back vs a cluster of wires and solder points that can go wrong. Granted if a LED goes go then you're into soldering or sending the whole board off, but still. I'd assume the chances of them actually going wrong once past QC are very slim?
 
PBrookfield said:
Fully dimmed for the incandescent effect, right outta the box.

As I said, the only problems with the remakes are the money they command, and you need a finer hand and more than a crude soldering iron to repair them yourself down the line.
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They do play different to the originals and some prefer remakes, some the originals.
And many dispute that they do play different:rofl:
 
Durzel said:
You'd think those giant light boards would be much more reliable though. One connector to the back vs a cluster of wires and solder points that can go wrong. Granted if a LED goes go then you're into soldering or sending the whole board off, but still. I'd assume the chances of them actually going wrong once past QC are very slim?
Click to expand...
No idea really, they're still too new to really know for sure. My reservations are down to modern soldering standards requiring lead-free solder, and the natural vibrations of gameplay creating broken solder joints. But these are easily reflowed.

I do recall the one major problem the remakes had was flaking clear coat but as far as I can tell this is a glitch during early production rather than a trend.
 
Replay said:
They do play different to the originals and some prefer remakes, some the originals.
And many dispute that they do play different:rofl:
Click to expand...
I'm not convinced they play more differently than different examples of the same game can do, though - part of the nature of pinball is that every game has a character all its own.

It also doesn't make any sense at all to compare 20+ year old games to brand new examples, if you tried that with a car you'd be laughed at for pointing out they handled different.

At the same time I can understand people saying they play 'the same' if they're talking about the broad-strokes of the fact that a MM is an MM even if half of the switches are broken.
 
Assuming a super mint MB vs a MBr I can't see how it could really play differently if all of the under playfield parts are new on both. We already know the MBr code is identical to MB.

That said it does place mint MB in a sortof rarified market where you need to find someone who doesn't want a 20 year newer machine with warranty, LCD, etc.
 
Remember that two examples of the same 25 year old machine often play entirely differently.

Dirt, wax, mechanical wear, playfield angle, rubber condition ..... they all play a part
 
DRD said:
Remember that two examples of the same 25 year old machine often play entirely differently.

Dirt, wax, mechanical wear, playfield angle, rubber condition ..... they all play a part
Click to expand...

Spot on - Nobody has played a BNIB MM for 20 years so they have no freaking clue how it plays!

MMR is the most reliable game I’ve got in my collection. It’s superb and in my view plays exactly like any other MM.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
PBrookfield said:
I'm not convinced they play more differently than different examples of the same game can do, though - part of the nature of pinball is that every game has a character all its own.

It also doesn't make any sense at all to compare 20+ year old games to brand new examples, if you tried that with a car you'd be laughed at for pointing out they handled different.

At the same time I can understand people saying they play 'the same' if they're talking about the broad-strokes of the fact that a MM is an MM even if half of the switches are broken.
Click to expand...
There has been endless discussion on pinside about lag on the flippers. No one can agree on this subject.
Personally, I have played 5 remakes and to me, the flippers do feel strange compared to the 10 or so original games I have played.
Yes, some of those 10 had weak flippers but the remakes just feel different - hard to explain.
They aren't the same in that because the game is an emulation, they receive signals differently.
Can't comment anymore as the tech is beyond me!
 
Neil McRae said:
Spot on - Nobody has played a BNIB MM for 20 years so they have no freaking clue how it plays!

MMR is the most reliable game I’ve got in my collection. It’s superb and in my view plays exactly like any other MM.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Click to expand...
But say a pinball heaven complete restoration is going to be pretty close to a NIB MM!
I truly believe some people notice the difference and others don't.
It really doesn't matter at all in the scheme of things:);)
 
Replay said:
But say a pinball heaven complete restoration is going to be pretty close to a NIB MM!
I truly believe some people notice the difference and others don't.
It really doesn't matter at all in the scheme of things:);)
Click to expand...

No it’s not! - who makes the playfield and the clear coat that’s on it? Who makes the Balls and the rubbers? Because it isn’t williams and event the clear is made massively different with new chemical restrictions - how the ball rolls is one of the key things - like tyres in a car.

Neil.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
Replay said:
There has been endless discussion on pinside about lag on the flippers. No one can agree on this subject....They aren't the same in that because the game is an emulation, they receive signals differently.
Click to expand...
Actually that's a bloody fair point.

I play (well, used to) play music games at tournament level. I could bore you with latency, frame data and complaints about the inadequacy of standard USB HID processing on PCs even with 1GHz-clocked USB ports all day long. I could easily believe there's a response difference, but when you go below a certain timing window you start needing to measure it to confirm - if you're perceptive you can notice a difference during play but not with precision and would have difficulty even with A-B testing.

If I had access to the internals of one of the remake machines I would be able to work it out conclusively compared to 'standard' WPC hardware.
 
@Replay has made a very good point.

There are extremely subtle differences in the way way solenoids fire in seemingly similar pinball machines. The slingshots on my shadow are the most rapid firing of any of my games. This is not due to leaf switch adjustment.

The slingshots in my scared stiff sound different to the others in my collection.

There is a perceptible delay in how quickly the rottendog solenoid board fired the top diverter in my TZ, so it sometimes failed to catch the power ball. Now a proper bally solenoid board is in TZ, it fires quicker and has reduced power ball misses by over 90 percent.

Best, fastest firing, flippers of all are on pre linear flipper bally games imho, late 70s ones like paragon. These don't even use trannies.

Hard to say one is right or wrong. Just different.
 
Different is the word.

I don't think I am imagining a different flipper feel as many players in the USA have made similar comments.

Not saying one is better or worse, just different.

The remakes are emulations, which according to those who understand these things, is why the flippers have a different feel!
 
Neil McRae said:
No it’s not! - who makes the playfield and the clear coat that’s on it? Who makes the Balls and the rubbers? Because it isn’t williams and event the clear is made massively different with new chemical restrictions - how the ball rolls is one of the key things - like tyres in a car.

Neil.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Click to expand...
I agree but my comments are really just referring to the flipper feel of the games. And from similar threads on pinside, seems like some can feel the difference and others can't.
 
When you say emulation, is this because the remake runs a PC which then emulates the original hardware? Like VP or Mame does?
 
Stags6969 said:
When you say emulation, is this because the remake runs a PC which then emulates the original hardware? Like VP or Mame does?
Click to expand...
Perhaps, though it's not quite the same topic as the one regarding the flippers - it would be a very silly way to wire up the flippers, relying on an emulation program and making the CPU part of the processing chain would not add tiny amounts of lag, it would add massive lag that would be noticeable by anybody. No engineer worth their salt would entertain this route, especially when it would be objectively inferior to the method used on the original machines.

It could very easily come down to fine-grained specifications, like the circuit design or even just the types of transistors used. It's the kind of topic that needs more in-depth analysis than it's probably worth - except to someone with the know-how to perform the analysis, that owns a remake machine AND cares enough to actually do the work to answer it. That's not a massive cross-section of people.
 
CGC did a lot of work to show how the flippers respond exactly the same. Now the coils and the mechs are different.

Nell.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
AfmR Definitely plays differently to original, I am mostly playing my copy machine, it’s very nice, but not original and so no where near as wanted as my originals which all have played similar ?
Horses for courses I suppose, do love the topper though on my fake and the screen, but it’s never going to be the real thing but for some people they can accept a copy like a kit car I suppose lots love them but not ever going to be ok for true pinballers, only these new Jonny come latelys who shout a lot :rofl::p, only joking
 
Neil McRae said:
CGC did a lot of work to show how the flippers respond exactly the same. Now the coils and the mechs are different.

Nell.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Click to expand...
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/why-remakes-dont-play-like-originals

There is a difference but in my experience the difference (the delay and the variance in delay) is absolutely solidly within the tolerance I would set for my most exacting music game (Beatmania IIDX) where 6ms is the upper limit. Pinball doesn't need tighter response than IIDX, trust me on that one.

It also anecdotally explains why I didn't notice anything wrong with the flipper response when I recently played an AFMr.

Issues with feel are quite likely to be more about the physical construction, or simply the newness, than anything... 20 years of changes in construction methods add up
 
Don’t agree, totally different engine under the bonnet and could never be the same, good fun though and so just enjoy whichever one you have
 
Sorry from a human perspective it’s the same.


Part of me wishes CGC had just copied the old boards exactly but then again no as my MMR and AFMR aare way more reliable than my other original Williams games. And agree Tony enjoy it!
 
Having taken a Pinball Heaven / @chris b fully restored Monster Bash to America in February his year... Unpacking and setting it up, is close as it gets to NIB 90's machine we'll ever get!

Did it play amazing, hell yeah it did! Did it play better then it was in Tilt a year prior of course! But as @Replay there is something that feels different with the remakes... And having played as close to a NIB Williams/Bally this year and week after playing my MMr and AFMr there is difference of how they play. As @Neil McRae said process have changed... Different chemicals... Modern boards will have a driving factor...

But as others have said every machine is ultimately different and has its own character.

The choice is... Do you by a remake that is properly more reliable... Comes with a warranty... Looks abit more special with new screen and topper and other bits and bobs...

Or do you buy a decent original that may have issues... or splash the cash on a tidier original... or super mint NIB job from someone like @chris b

If it was going in Tilt I'd pick a remake for reliability
If I had the cash I'd go with @chris b NIB minty one
But if I was new to pinball and had played very little of MM, AFM or MB I'd go with a remake because you'll never know :D
 
I had an afm and mm from Chicago and they were very high quality, I got mmr as I couldn’t get a great nick original. I had a great afm original, it did play differently but not enough to bother me. I’ve had 3 TAFs and they all felt different:)
 
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