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Message from the IFPA

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Taxiturn said:
Couldn’t disagree more re: this being “self-evident for likes” in the context of the President just two days ago signing an executive order with the intention to ban trans women and girls from women’s and girls’ sports which receive federal funding. This is real and couldn’t be any more topical for the IFPA to comment upon, particularly as a US-based organisation which sanctions competitions including trans people.

This is a serious topic. There is no need to “lighten the mood” in every thread
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Except pinball isn't a sport. It isn't dictated by hemoglobin levels, VO2 max, bone density or muscle mass. Even if someone wanted to let their hair down bashing trans people over pinball, there's no argument to do so. Pinball is an arcade game and a hobby that represents a haven to all people. An arcade game tournament association (which self evidently is not federally funded) should not be making topical comments on whether male equivalent testosterone formed/producing women should participate in female sports. Authorities are established to put science into practice to keep sports safe and fair; they do it or nobody does.

Until recent years those conversations had become political and not scientific. There's now a race to ban trans-women from female sports brackets everywhere - not because of bigots or racist grandads, but because of outcomes. Outcomes and the scientific method. It's happened in tennis, athletics, the Olympics, cycling, hockey, cricket - Trump didn't initiate it, the reversal preceeds Trump and is being conducted by overwhelmingly liberal people. Were schools going to permit trans-girls to compete with women and then throw them in with men at the semi-professional level? No.

The IFPA statement is just reheating political language which directly led to this regrettable moment. Children aren't waking up with genuine fear that their government is persecuting them because of a correction towards safety and fairness, they're afraid because they were lied to by a society that's supposed to protect them. The willingness to permit trans people to participate in same-sex sports was a short-sighted and over-indulgent lie. The world was was never going to allow that to happen because they would never tolerate the outcome. We're not all blessed with the immutable psychological trait of being sceptical enough to have known that from the moment it was suggested, but make no mistake it's clear as day.

Don't demonise people in here who at least knew that. It might not be a funny joke to say changing your gender will make you win a bike race, but a lot of people are very upset right now because for some stupid reason they were told they could win a women's bike race as a trans-woman (and I quote IFPA) BECAUSE they are woman. Well the ECB and cycling sport science says sure, but not on a bike they're not. If the advice wasn't bad enough, it had to be hinged on their very existence as women didn't it? I suppose it's a case of fighting for trans women in women's sports until the last trans-person. Gender dysphoria whilst no longer treated as a pathology is every bit as debilitating and I find all of this approach disgusting.

If you want someone to blame for the levity, blame the IFPA and everyone else who ignorantly sent extremely vulnerable people into the grinder in the name of virtue.

We all expect and encourage them to allow trans people to participate in whichever bracket they choose, not because 'they are men/women' in football, but because they are men/women in pinball and we can deliver upon that. That isn't because it's my opinion, that's because that is what must/is going to happen.
 
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Wow, I've missed alot.

The women's pinfest competition always seems to be more fun, even though I wouldn't drink the prosecco.
 
This guy is a personal friend. He has spent 30 years as a psychiatrist. He was Head of Scotland's Gender Identity Clinic and he turned whistle-blower. This was in Nicola Sturgeon's Scotland so you can imagine the implications.


The Guardian in Nov 22 "According to a study commissioned by NHS England, 10 years ago there were just under 250 referrals ..... to the Gender Identity Development Service. Last year, there were more than 5,000, which was twice the number in the previous year".

I don't have kids but friends with teenagers tell me that half of pupils in some classes at the village comprehensive consider themselves to be non-binary. One of their kids was telling me that someone in their class identifies as a cat.

Because of my psychiatrist friend I have followed this subject for years. I have never known any topic with greater potential to strain friendships and families.

Tremendous care is required when discussing it.

Screenshot_20250208-062640_Samsung Internet.webp
 
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DRD said:
I don't have kids but friends with teenagers tell me that half of pupils in some classes at the village comprehensive consider themselves to be non-binary. One of their kids was telling me that someone in their class identifies as a cat.
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Dude, come on. This is GB news/Daily Mail level ********.

I don't advertise my job on here but I'm a nurse consultant in psychiatry. I have friends who work in the gender dysphoria service in Newcastle. You're lucky if one kid in a class identifies as non-binary, let alone half. I know we are in a post-Trump universe, but facts still matter. Just saying or reading something online doesn't make it true.
 
It's what multiple parents in my village with kids at the comprehensive I attended have told me.
 
Just a point to those saying this is unnecessary and ‘virtue signalling’, I totally understand why it feels like that. Just to share my perspective as a trans person,
- we don’t get to assume that we’re welcome in most spaces. Aside from explicitly queer communities, getting involved in a community is scary because you might not be wanted there. Basic things for me like going to the gym and dropping my kid off at school can be anxiety inducing because I’m afraid of being noticed as trans and being treated unfairly for it.
- the chess competitive body has very recently said trans folk can’t compete in the appropriate league, which is crazy and makes you afraid the same will be true in other games. (Similarly there was some controversy when a trans darts player won something in December.)
- basically this provides me the assurance that I am welcome and can play pinball competitively without fear of being abused for it. Which is nice. And if you want pinball to be a welcoming community then this is exactly what you need.

For what it’s worth, generally speaking I don’t give a damn what people think about me - I wasted enough of my life worrying about that already. But not having to be afraid is really quite a lovely thing.
 
thejefu said:
An arcade game tournament association (which self evidently is not federally funded) should not be making topical comments on whether male equivalent testosterone formed/producing women should participate in female sports.
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Appreciate the eloquent response. But the above comment is a bit of strawman argument, because the IFPA statement is about pinball events, and pinball events only.

As for the comments from others about this being virtue signalling. You must have missed the last 2 weeks in America. Trump signing executive orders about there only being 2 genders and placing all federal diversity hires on leave. Instantly blaming diversity hires for a plane crash. All major social media companies removing any restrictions on abusing someone because of their sexuality or gender.

It's a **** time to be anyone that isn't white and straight atm in America So the IFPA thought they would make a nice gesture saying you're welcome at our events irrespective of gender or sexuality. The fact that even that has triggered some people blows my mind.
 
AlanJ said:
That’s a good argument to suggest that pinball shouldn’t have separate women’s comps 😂😂😀

Why do we have separate Women’s comps?
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I think it's due to percentage representation. If pinball men/women ratio is 100-1, women would not get a fair bite of the cherry in recognition of their skills.

Admittedly, the leagues aren't split and the ladies do pretty well.
 
Pretty certain any trans players who have beaten me in tournaments haven’t done so as a result of their original gender. They won simply because they were better players. Same goes for all the women and children who have regularly outplayed me. (And also all the men)

Some sports clearly give an advantage to bigger/stronger players. In basket ball or rugby a 6’5” player is going to dominate a 5’ player most of the time if they have similar skill levels. Muscle strength isn’t anywhere near as important in our hobby.

So saying it’s easy to be chilled about something that doesn’t have any real impact on me. Are there trans people trying to compete in the women’s league purely in order to have a better chance at the prize money? I’d imagine it’s unlikely but guess it’s possible. Are women feeling put out by this situation? Is it going to stop more people coming into the hobby? The whole thing tends to unravel quickly. I remember a few years back Matt tried to get more women involved in the London scene and offered a trophy which someone quickly called out as sexist due to the colour.

I’d like to think anyone who has ever come here to play has been made to feel welcome regardless of any differences between us.
 
I don’t really think this is as much a statement about competitive pinball as it is a reaction to the current political climate in the States.

I also wouldn’t describe it as virtue signalling given the wider context - I’d argue that it’s more safe space signalling, which I think is important at the moment given how unsafe a lot of people currently feel.
 
I think the message in the original post is clear to everyone, and some people will be in favour and some people won't and some people won't care at all. But this long ago became a political issue, cynically used by politicians on all sides to create division - because that suits their agenda. This is not meant to take away from validity of all sides' arguments, but recognising the fact that this is now a political football to get people arguing. Which we see here.

Pretty sure that political posts aren't allowed on here for the very reason that they cause division and arguments - there are plenty of places on the internet to have these discussions if that floats people's boats, but bearing in mind the original message is clear, can this post not just be closed now before it descends any further? @Paul @Calimori @mufcmufc ?
 
No doubt it is a response to the current USA situation

Physical strength isn’t the only reason for having separate tournaments and sports where that is an issue are finding ways to navigate that, some better than others

But for many things, access and participation levels are also major factors. Promoting separate girls and women’s competitions increases the numbers who take up a sport or hobby, simply because they can compete - if you have ten thousand men and one thousand women involved in any field then clearly men are going to dominate, based on sheer numbers

If anyone tried to compete in the women’s competition because they think it is funny to make a point, or a route to easy $$ then I’m pretty sure they would be called out for that by most of us.

I think in pinball some of the women’s competitions are about competing in a different atmosphere, @ailsaclunie organised a Pinfest comp that was hugely successful, no doubt partially down to being in a separate space

Some may think the playing field is totally even in pinball (or other competitions) but the statistics say that they are still dominated by men at all levels so there is an advantage somewhere - I don’t think the opinions of a load of blokes on what is appropriate are really what matters
 
Separate womens leagues or events aren't about differing physicalities(sp?) or abilities it's about creating a safe place for women, which is needed in this hobby. The Belles and Chimes events in the states are hugely popular in encouraging more women into the hobby. This also includes accepting trans people or non binary.
 
I wonder how many league hosts will withdraw their services on the back of this thread.

How many will stop taking games to shows ?

If you want to destroy the pinball fraternity. Debate trans.
 
DRD said:
I wonder how many league hosts will withdraw their services on the back of this thread.

How many will stop taking games to shows ?
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Wait, what? Why would this thread have any impact at all on hosting or taking games to shows?
 
A pinball brother has reached out to me and encouraged me to clarify my earlier post.

There are certain topics today that are almost guaranteed to yield arguments, possibly bitter ones. Friends of decades fall out over them. Families are split over them. Folk in the pub who aren't even part of the conversation decide to get involved etc etc

You debate them at your peril. Stuff like

Trump
Israel Palestine

But in my opinion, by far the most divisive of all is Trans.

Like a number on here, I have always tried to support this community. I have hosted for years, taken games to shows. Introduced newbies to the scene. I want this community of fellow weirdos to thrive as the machines will die without this sense of fraternity.

But IMHO if you debate Trump or Israel Paleatine or Trans on here, within hours some folk will shout "Bigot" ..... as we have already seen ... Then people will withdraw as not everyone wants to be present in a shouting match.
 
Its true it quickly become a toxic topic.

I'm a bit cynical when organisations make statements, knowing its been through a team of PR execs, like when a bank does it, feels like..... hey ignore all that russian money, bankrupting the country and repossessing peoples homes, look at our new rainbow logo, aren't we nice and inclusive.

The trans debate seems to focus on the extremes, pushed on by click driven media, like elite level sports where winning and losing is determined by the slimmest of margins, but this leaves out 99.9% of trans people, who like most of us, aren't going to be Olympians anytime soon.

I sort of dismissed the statement at first, thinking it well meaning but ultimately a bit pointless, after all most people are decent, surely if a trans person turned up for a tournament they would be welcomed like anyone else.

But as the poster earlier pointed out, these reassurances are important, the world was openly hostile to trans people not that long ago and not all communities are welcoming. Joining a community and meeting new people can be nerve racking, so anything that can ease that can only be a good thing. In short its what trans people think of the message thats important, not us balding blokes.
 
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AlanJ said:
That’s a good argument to suggest that pinball shouldn’t have separate women’s comps 😂😂😀

Why do we have separate Women’s comps?
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I've questioned this at times, as what with tilt-bobs in place, there's no physical advantage in being a physically stronger person (not that men are always physically stronger than women; especialy in pinball - we come in all shapes and sizes 👍🏻) but you get my point.
I believe the reason for trophies for the highest finishing woman, or separate women's comps are to help encourage more ladies to take part and feel a bit more welcoming. It's good reason, but I think is a bit patronising? (I am a man though, so obvs don't want to try and speak on behalf of ladies; wouldn't be interested to hear some ladies' thoughts on that?)
 
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