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League Behaviour

Enthusiastic nudging is fine if people are playing my machines, I know some people are just in the zone and really want to save the ball. I'd say if you knock one machine into another then you have gone too far.

However I do not like any sort of banging down onto the lockdown bar or the glass, that is an after-reaction and not part of playing the pin.

Never seen someone break the glass by hand before, other than warped or badly scratched tempered glass when it spontaneously turns into a thousand pieces from an airball or just sliding it out of the rails.
 
It's not the first broken glass I've seen broken this way and probably won't be the last. I've witnessed it in two seperate IFPA World Championships. In this instance it probably didn't help that it was plate glass, but you have very little clue that it's the wrong type of glass until it's broken. I've had one glass broken whilst someone leaned on a machine watching someone play on another, again it was plate glass.

Regarding swearing, perhaps a reminder at the start of the meet for people to mind their language because of young ones being present might be the way forward.
 
Can I say having looked at the results from the weekend, and it seeming to point quite clearly to who was responsible.
On the several occasions i have met the man he has been one of the nicest and pleasant players i have encountered and truly helpful to such a bad player as me.
I understand that nothing makes smashing a glass acceptable, but when i saw who it looks like it was, he would not have been any where near the top of my list of petulant players and made me pause for thought.
 
mission65 said:
Can I say having looked at the results from the weekend, and it seeming to point quite clearly to who was responsible.
On the several occasions i have met the man he has been one of the nicest and pleasant players i have encountered and truly helpful to such a bad player as me.
I understand that nothing makes smashing a glass acceptable, but when i saw who it looks like it was, he would not have been any where near the top of my list of petulant players and made me pause for thought.
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Actually I've played with the guy in a UK event, and I'd put him at the top of the list of suspects after the thing I saw him do, I imagine my team mates from that event would agree too.
It was embarrassing that I had to fix the ball kickout on one of the machines he played after a violent nudge into another machine
 
There will be no smashy smashy round mine at the weekend please :). There may be some seriously bad ****s the next day though, as i got me some Carolina Reaper Chillies. We got some flaming hot Chilli Concrane and some home made red hot Peanut butter :) (normal food is available)

Midlands meet, This Sunday, 12:00 (14:00) PM me for address.

Fireball EM
Aerobatics EM
Nautilus EM
Circus EM
TAF
ACDC
Mr n Mrs PacMan
8 Ball Deluxe
Star Wars DE

Sorry for stealing the thread.

Winners Don't Use Drugs (nor smash pinballs nor swear much - but they can fart a bit...)
No rings were harmed in the creation of this message, yet...

JB
 
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lukewells said:
Actually I've played with the guy in a UK event, and I'd put him at the top of the list of suspects after the thing I saw him do, I imagine my team mates from that event would agree too.
It was embarrassing that I had to fix the ball kickout on one of the machines he played after a violent nudge into another machine
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Ahhh I hear you Luke, glad that real experiences are being quoted good or bad, at least the powers that be can then make a reasoned reaction, I have not played that much so appreciate my experience is very limited compared to others.
 
Thankfully there are only 2 people (in the collectors/league players circles) that I have come across that have been abusive towards machines, so they are in the very small minority
 
Hi all you haters! First of all, are you really sure what happened? If you do not, you should refrain to be too categorical in your comments. Firstly, "the criminal" hit the glass after plunging his first ball. He was trying to get the ball to fall in the right lane on the upper part of the playfield. It was a 5 ball game and he had not started to play. It was not out of frustration. Secondly, "the criminal" had put on gloves for this occasion. I find gloves silly but anyway I guess it is more difficult to control your power when nudging. Thirdly, if not tempered glass the machine should not be at a venue, e.g. a pub. If "the criminal" was cut by the glass he might have taken the venue to court. I know being a bar owner.

The only a way forward for any community is to listen to each others and help members that are out of line. "The criminal" in this case is very regretful and did not hit the machines for any other purpose than nudging. The combination of weak glass and gloves made this happen. He should pay for a new glass but nothing more and most important...he should not need to read your comments.

If we need more rules we should ban farting and B.O. It is a much bigger problem than
 
Nope, I have no idea what happened at this event, I was not there, but as above, I saw him cause a fault on a machine from slamming it at another event. Coincidence? Bad luck? Serial machine abuser?
 
Thomas, how do you know for sure that the glass in your machines is tempered and not plate? (Other than ones bought from new) I would not want anyone to get hurt whilst at a meet, be it in a home or public venue. It is fair to say though that had he not hit the glass it wouldn't have broken when it did. Like I have said, I hold no grudge against him but this is not the first time he has abused machines, Dawn put out a mail last year because he was banging on them in frustration.
 
It should be pointed out that there is not only one person that has ever banged on a machine! (This is not a witch hunt) I have done it myself and I have seen many others do it too. I think the main reason that the league imposed a punishment on this occasion is the fact that he had been warned before and the damage that was caused.
 
I do not have a clue but after some accidents with proper glass in pictures on the wall I was warned to change them so people could not get hurt. You have to decide if you want to risk being sued for putting out dangerous things in the bar. With the pictures I had no choice. This is despite people, very drunk, started to fall into the on regular basis and cut themselves. Customers always right...
 
I love a hot chilli. And I don't like people banging machines unnecessarily. Especially mine.
 
I am at a bit of a loss here. This is pinball, a meaningless game. It is not a wider consideration of worthiness or humanity.

Some guy, I have no idea what guy, seemingly abused a pinball to the extent that a glass shattered. He might be the nicest human being in the world, saving kittens, saving the planet. I might count him as a dear friend. It is irrelevant.

Whether it is plate, toughened, laminated, stained, venetian, recycled, tinted or leaded glass is irrelevant.

This guy either abused a machine or he didn't.

I have been playing pinball for almost 40 years, I have never shattered a glass.

If it was a freak air-ball scenario or bizarre machine malfunction then fine, he is clean. We have all had air balls, especially the Vector brethren

But if he physically intervened on a machine leading to a glass break, ban him for a year. Whether he wore gloves, women's lingerie, a 19th century scuba diving suit .... it is irrelevant.

Why make him welcome at events that rely on the goodwill of others ?

Why are folk pussy footing around ? We all know how difficult it is to get folk to donate machines to events or host meetings. Allowing some fella you do not know to mess with a game worth £500 to £5000 relies on trust and a sense of fraternity. Host an 8 game meeting and you are looking at £4000 to £40000 of kit

How many of us would hand our car keys to an uninsured stranger to drive as fast as they could in a competition with 30 other uninsured strangers ?

You are faced with 2 bad choices. Which is least distasteful ?

1. Let this guy turn up as if nothing has happened. Leave the entire community more nervous about opening their homes up and supplying their games to events

2. Impose meaningful sanction
 
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I'd feel bad if someone was banned because they were just really trying to save a ball and were a little too aggressive, most of us have done that before when the pressure is on, and you are in the zone, it can be a genuine accident.

The person in question however, I have personally seen slam games AFTER the ball has drained, which is an angry reaction, and not part of trying to play the game and save the ball, these are 2 very different things, that should have different consequences
 
Still unsure why you would bang on glass, the lockdown bar maybe or slap the side is what I normally do and not really hard either. I know if I put some effort in I'd probably throw it ;)
 
J.C.Rox said:
I'm not lending this guy my gibson les Paul...
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Mani I love this forum. Great post never seen that before. CLASSIC

Also - this thread is really funny if you think of the word "banging" in the "other" sense of the word

My tuppence worth to the glass breaking issue would be - "just don't hit other people's machines. End of.... " But let's not gang up on people too much if they make 1 mistake. I bet the guy is mortified.
 
Arv said:
Still unsure why you would bang on glass, the lockdown bar maybe or slap the side is what I normally do and not really hard either. I know if I put some effort in I'd probably throw it ;)
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Totally agree on this, absolutely NO reason to bang on glass, slap sides yes, nudge front and / or sides yes, bang on glass NO, kick machine NO, and be physical with machine after ball drains NO.

DRD's post nails it.

He is not welcome to any event I host, in fact anyone that abuses machines is not welcome.
 
@robotgreg

Might I respectfully suggest that whoever controls the league revisits this matter and reconsiders the sanction. I know that you do a lot of work for pinball, I know that you put your own games at risk by allowing others to use them, and I know that it is a big time soak. I am very grateful for what you do. No-one wants to have to deal with a problem like this as we are amateur pinball geeks, not the police

When you have a 6 match league series, banning someone from one round is not going to move the dial on the competition. That is very much a secondary factor here anyway. I think this is far more about respect for the games that enthusiasts strip down, re-decal, polish, airbrush ... etc etc at great expense

I fear that if the league does not take action here - then the individual hosts will do so (like above) and it could all get messy. I also suspect that there will be fewer donations to events if this individual is not sanctioned in a way that the wider community considers reasonable - or that folk will keep their nice games safely tucked away and be more likely to supply bashed up games to events and home tournaments

It is obviously very hard to determine when a line has been crossed. But smashing a glass seems pretty cut and dried to me

I have never met the alleged smasher. I don't know him. I live in another part of the country. But the first time I went to an event last year I could not believe that a total stranger would let me in his house like that, let me play his games, feed me and ask for nothing other than a voluntary contribution in return. I just think that there is something very special about the fraternal folk that keep this scene alive, and their sense of community must not be abused
 
PipelineTom said:
Hi all you haters! First of all, are you really sure what happened? If you do not, you should refrain to be too categorical in your comments. Firstly, "the criminal" hit the glass after plunging his first ball. He was trying to get the ball to fall in the right lane on the upper part of the playfield. It was a 5 ball game and he had not started to play. It was not out of frustration. Secondly, "the criminal" had put on gloves for this occasion. I find gloves silly but anyway I guess it is more difficult to control your power when nudging. Thirdly, if not tempered glass the machine should not be at a venue, e.g. a pub. If "the criminal" was cut by the glass he might have taken the venue to court. I know being a bar owner.

The only a way forward for any community is to listen to each others and help members that are out of line. "The criminal" in this case is very regretful and did not hit the machines for any other purpose than nudging. The combination of weak glass and gloves made this happen. He should pay for a new glass but nothing more and most important...he should not need to read your comments.

If we need more rules we should ban farting and B.O. It is a much bigger problem than
Click to expand...

Same guy was warned by one of the NLP committee at 8bitflip last year for banging my Robowar around. Just sayin....
 
woah...this thread makes for interesting reading... guilty of talking to competitors whilst competing but only because i want to get to know you all...
just being friendly...no tactics involved...:);):thumbs:
 
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