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JJP GNR Pinball

Neil McRae said:
it wasn't just moving the art away from the posts, Stern and Spooky also changed the clear formula. Its much thinner on my JP, NST, Turtles and Avengers compared to IMDN, Deadpool
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So do you think the Digital process isn’t part of the issue Neil?
Also does thinner clear coat mean the dimple issue will be more of a problem having less protection?

I would have thought Silkscreening is a kind of protection in itself due to the process of painting in multiple stages with real paint.

Another problem is planking in some of the newer sterns why does that happen with digital print? I always thought planking was only on old worn out tables where the paint starts to crack but I’ve seen some nasty examples on newer Stern Pins.

All I want is something that will look nice in 20yr like Ball/Will stuff so whoever has my pins can still appreciate their beauty without chips and dimples everywhere.
 
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There are so many theories on why this is happening, most from people who aren't even remotely qualified to answer and are just plucking reasons out of the air or repeating what someone else has said.

For me there are 3 scenarios:

1. They don't know why it is happening
2. They know why it is happening but don't know how to fix it
3. They know how to fix it but it will cost them too much money
 
huggers said:
I thought the theory was something about banned chemicals? The plot thickens (the clear doesn't).
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The chemicals they are talking about were banned long ago, actually not banned just not permitted in the volumes they need, atleast pre 2004 in the EU. From 2004 cars have really poor orange peel effect.

Stern changed manufacturer away from CGC sometime around Ghostbusters.

Mirco does JJP

Spooky and AP now using Bader, Stern in house.

Neil.
 
OK I’ve just put my tin hat on and have a very simple solution.
Stern and JJP need to plant a spy in CGC and Bader copy their processes and use their suppliers of the consumables they buy in.

Job done everyone happy
 
I think the problem is too many things changed at the same time:

1: Wood
2: Print type
3: Clear

I think it started with the wood - because its the _only_ common issue between those affected.

Ghostbusters timeline was stern's first attempt to take cost out, fail.

they then revert back to something that works for Aerosmith, Met and ACDC Vault, Batman 66, Guardians, Star Wars etc. then the ****show starts with IMDN etc...
 
Jmac said:
@Sako-TRG did you get a response from them? I emailed them twice and got nothing
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Hi......
I emailed them a number of times from two different email accounts.
I got nothing but I fear I’m not their favourite customer now so just assumed I’m on ignore 😬
I’ve managed to get both Liors Skull + Lockdown button via a different route - Not 🇩🇪

Edit: it’s up on Freddie’s page as an option with pricing but you cannot add to basket, just says coming soon. Maybe try calling them?
Better hurry as Lior has nearly sold all his buttons... there isn't an endless production.
 
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Going back to the late 2000's - at the time I thought Sterns playfields looked awful in print quality. The examples I would use is LOTR and Spideman. But all this changed on a repair I worked on. I think I was more disappointed with the plastic print quality.....

Here are two pictures from a 2007 Spider Man (not the vault version - the original).

Whoever made these playfields in 2007 should be making them today with the same process.

This era would not of been done with the 'banned chemicals'.

Yes - this game is in amazing condition for its age - but it has a darn site more plays than the GnR had after 700 games on site.

62626798879__9FCEC644-0683-4E57-A7AF-F83DAAA6234A.JPG62626802035__BC8C06F7-559C-4FF1-B62D-C4076F48B1EC.JPG
 
Pick Holder said:
Whoever made these playfields in 2007 should be making them today with the same process.

This era would not of been done with the 'banned chemicals'.
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Interesting @Pick Holder , my Tron LE looks remarkably similar to the Spiderman playfield finish.
I noticed when I purchased Tron, I hate to use this cliché.. but it has next to zero dimples and the shooter lane is perfect. The clear coat has an identical finish to your Spiderman. Its shiny but not deep gloss appearance like my other more modern pins. The wood feels extremely robust.
 
Sako-TRG said:
Interesting @Pick Holder , my Tron LE looks remarkably similar to the Spiderman playfield finish.
I noticed when I purchased Tron, I hate to use this cliché.. but it has next to zero dimples and the shooter lane is perfect. The clear coat has an identical finish to your Spiderman. Its shiny but not deep gloss appearance like my other more modern pins. The wood feels extremely robust.
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Yeah - for 13 years old - I would say perfect wouldn't you @Sako-TRG ?

By the way - this is not my machine. It is a customers that I serviced.
 
Old chemicals. Now apparently too toxic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
Neil McRae said:
Old chemicals. Now apparently too toxic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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Nope - was made after 2004.

The Toxic chemicals regulations came in during 2004. I also remember it well as a lot of guitar finishes changed 2005.

Seems strange the guitar industry does not have problems. Plenty of things get bolted onto guitars that have 300lbs of constant pressure on them but paint does not crack or pool.
 
It came in europe - not in the US which was a few years behind.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
Pick Holder said:
Nope - was made after 2004.

The Toxic chemicals regulations came in during 2004. I also remember it well as a lot of guitar finishes changed 2005.

Seems strange the guitar industry does not have problems. Plenty of things get bolted onto guitars that have 300lbs of constant pressure on them but paint does not crack or pool.
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Nib last week, 3 songs later discovered this.... not one call returned by Fender, grrrrrr. Never going nib again...
Screenshot_20201108-151809_Chrome.jpg
 
Just reading the threads on Pinside and there is concern the flipper and sling rubbers are breaking after approx. 100-150 plays.
What are people considering swapping these for and where is the best place to get them?
 
Big Phil said:
That's totally the wrong train of thought surely? The question should be, what are JJP doing to resolve this issue?

Forking out that sort of money, you want something to last a tad longer than 100-150 plays.
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Totally agree Phil, but if they start shredding after 100 plays, I want something ready to stick on it. Just wondered what people would recommend.
 
Stags6969 said:
Just reading the threads on Pinside and there is concern the flipper and sling rubbers are breaking after approx. 100-150 plays.
What are people considering swapping these for and where is the best place to get them?
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Titans -> pinballshop.nl
 
Well - good old pinside - chinese playfields now.

Surely Mirco would of stood up and said THESE ARE NOT MY WORK by now.

I strongly suspect that Mirco made these and JJP did not leave them long enough for the clear coat to properly harden. Perhaps they even sign a waver notice from Mirco..... You never know....

We can all go on guessing.

But at the end of the day I would assume everyone in the UK who has ordered one wants a quality game.

Thus not having the first run...... Plenty of logic to that.

Screenshot 2020-11-09 at 21.45.33.png
 
The latest JJP podcast is up. If you are expecting a discussion on manufacturing or playfield issues then don't bother, it is an interview with Melissa.
 
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Big Phil said:
That's totally the wrong train of thought surely? The question should be, what are JJP doing to resolve this issue?
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In short? Nothing.........but a pragmatist from Pinside made a call to parts at JJP and got the BOM for the rubbers.....
Here's the link for the Titan equivalents for GnR, if you need to get from pinballshop.nl - note these have yet to be fitted but he reckons there should be no issues for LE/CE.
https://www.titanpinball.com/kits/index.php/view/id/1503
 
Are pinballshop.nl good on supplying Titans these days? Last I tried they were buying in to order but tbf that was a while back. Titan will surely do their usual Black Friday discount later this month too.
 
Does this affect UK- Is this a wind-up?

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Quoted from RS-Pinball e.U. :-

Hi got this information a few hours ago. I dont have the law text infront of me, but as far as i got the information it is a US punishment tax because Mr. Trump raised such a similar tax for some products out of European Union. So this was raised now against US to punish the businesses. This means for us that not only US business are punished, but also we as a business in EU (RS-Pinball e.U.) because we need to pay this additional tax when we import the games to EU. this means further more that end customer games would have to increase of ~ up to 30% depending on country etc.

Here some short examples:
- a stern pro like avengers which would come prior christmas would be more expensive then a turtles premium which might be on stock
- a Guns n Roses Standard would be now highter in pricing then the LE was planned and the LE would have the pricing like a CE was planned

It "looks" (not verified from me till now) that this is also valid for pinball spare parts.

the customs number in europe is 950430 which is a derivate of 9504 and this is the number for gaming consoles (for this products the punishment was planned)

we have got no information if this tax is only in effect for some weeks or months or if this should stay for a longer time.

in an austrian news i have read that they think it is a action which is set against Mr. Trumps tax and that this should show also to Mr. Biden sees that there is a field where a action is required.

yes lets wait and see how it goes on.
 
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