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Flipper tip(micro flip) passes on Stern Spike2?

David_Vi

David_Vi

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When we got TMNT I swapped the flipper buttons to green ones as Claire thought green would be nicer and I also didn't like the feel of the buttons in it, they felt like they get caught on something so aren't smooth.

The new flipper buttons have springs in so offer more resistance under the finger (which I like).

In owning it a couple months I've noticed it's extremely hard to do tap passes or little flicks of the flippers that I find easy on my non stern games. I tried adjusting the leaf switches to get more control and have the flippers activate earlier or later (I forget).

Still couldn't get that control, soI asked on a FB group and pinside and people said it is easier with fliptronics on the older games and something to do with the computer in a stern not keeping up...
So I accepted it.

But since playing other peoples Stern games , like at Telboys yesterday I noticed I had more control and could do the little flicks.

Does anyone have any idea what to check or adjust? Would the spring in the button make this harder?

Could anyone with a stern Spike2 game share a photo of their flipper button leaf switch so I can compare and make any adjustments?

I didn't play it much before changing them so I'm unsure if it was ok before I changed the button.


Cheers folks.
 
What's interesting is in a switch test you can hear flipper button registers fast but the flipper doesn't drop or react unless you open the switch for longer
 
The gap and angle between the bottom of the slingshot and the butt of the flipper differs I think between some stern games as I found this hard on Turtles, you have to release the flipper for a fraction longer I found.
You could try tightening the flipper return spring and that should indicate whether it’s a weak spring or simply a delay in de-energising the coil.
 
Try putting the original buttons back in for a while and see if you get a different response like what you're hoping for. That should indicate if it's the buttons themselves or something else.
 
Andydn said:
The gap and angle between the bottom of the slingshot and the butt of the flipper differs I think between some stern games as I found this hard on Turtles, you have to release the flipper for a fraction longer I found.
You could try tightening the flipper return spring and that should indicate whether it’s a weak spring or simply a delay in de-energising the coil.
Click to expand...

That's a post pass. I can manage them, they are harder on the left on Turtles though! I mean the little flicks you can do when a ball rolls up the flipper to tap it to the other side

Moonraker said:
Try putting the original buttons back in for a while and see if you get a different response like what you're hoping for. That should indicate if it's the buttons themselves or something else.
Click to expand...

Tried this, haven't played enough to see if it's different yet.
I can't see why it would be like this, EOS on stern work differently and wouldn't have anything to do with it ?
 
Not sure about this, but I think that Sterns will flip at full power when the button is pressed regardless of the EOS switch state.

Whereas older games with dual-wound coils would only flip with hold power, thereby making the tap much softer.

Just a theory anyway...
 
That one's called a tip pass. As Matt said, Johannes makes it look like nothing, doing it at will, but it's a really tricky one to master. I was able to do it a few times when filming some of the skills videos for @Gonzo on his Elvira, but it's definitely wasn't consistent
 
roadshow16 said:
That one's called a tip pass. As Matt said, Johannes makes it look like nothing, doing it at will, but it's a really tricky one to master. I was able to do it a few times when filming some of the skills videos for @Gonzo on his Elvira, but it's definitely wasn't consistent
Click to expand...


David, I'll make this my next flipper video which may help mate but we don't look at the buttons themselves . . . . just Craig demonstrating the skill
 
David_Vi said:
When we got TMNT I swapped the flipper buttons to green ones as Claire thought green would be nicer and I also didn't like the feel of the buttons in it, they felt like they get caught on something so aren't smooth.

The new flipper buttons have springs in so offer more resistance under the finger (which I like).

In owning it a couple months I've noticed it's extremely hard to do tap passes or little flicks of the flippers that I find easy on my non stern games. I tried adjusting the leaf switches to get more control and have the flippers activate earlier or later (I forget).

Still couldn't get that control, soI asked on a FB group and pinside and people said it is easier with fliptronics on the older games and something to do with the computer in a stern not keeping up...
So I accepted it.

But since playing other peoples Stern games , like at Telboys yesterday I noticed I had more control and could do the little flicks.

Does anyone have any idea what to check or adjust? Would the spring in the button make this harder?

Could anyone with a stern Spike2 game share a photo of their flipper button leaf switch so I can compare and make any adjustments?

I didn't play it much before changing them so I'm unsure if it was ok before I changed the button.


Cheers folks.
Click to expand...
Hi i have exactly the same problem on my stranger things ,the left flipper seems to perform fine and i can tip pass 70% of the time but the right flipper feels lighter and i can lose a ball when it doesnt flip at the tip.It must be adjustment if the left one is better as there are only 2 flippers on ST.The williams games are a lot easier /consistent to do it on .
 
So check this out:


I've not done this and would prefer not to because not everyone will do it and in competitive pinball the winners are more often those who adapt to different games as opposed to those who have good skills.

This is a really useful video and Abe's other videos are worth watching also:

 
Neil McRae said:
So check this out:


I've not done this and would prefer not to because not everyone will do it and in competitive pinball the winners are more often those who adapt to different games as opposed to those who have good skills.

This is a really useful video and Abe's other videos are worth watching also:

Click to expand...

I've seen that and it explains that annoying sticky feeling but oddly since putting the old buttons back in I've not noticed it. But still no little flips !
 
20220110_145635.jpg
No idea if how sensitive the leaf Switch is has an impact.

I had fiddled with it previously
 
Neil McRae said:
So check this out:


I've not done this and would prefer not to because not everyone will do it and in competitive pinball the winners are more often those who adapt to different games as opposed to those who have good skills.

This is a really useful video and Abe's other videos are worth watching also:

Click to expand...

David_Vi said:
View attachment 157331
No idea if how sensitive the leaf Switch is has an impact.

I had fiddled with it previously
Click to expand...
I adjusted my spring closer to the button so more resistance on the button as @Andydn suggested and that has improved it a lot ,perhaps it pushes the button out quicker for a better reaction ,it certainly has a better feel. EDIT ..2 games on and thats fixed it , i made more bend in the spring closer to the mount to push it harder against the button
 
Last edited:
More bend is better
 

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I actually find tap passes easier on spike 2 sterns I think its what you get used too. I can almost never do them on older SS but can do them on Spike 2 ok, but its not consistent on every spike 2.
 
Neil McRae said:
I actually find tap passes easier on spike 2 sterns I think its what you get used too. I can almost never do them on older SS but can do them on Spike 2 ok, but its not consistent on every spike 2.
Click to expand...
I agree maiden is a lot more responsive than ST and snappier and both sets of flippers have similar play numbers so its not down to wear.
 
I find micro flips much easier on my JP2 than TMNT. I tried messing with the leaf switches a bit but I still have better control on JP2 so it may be a more machine to machine thing than a spike 2 as a whole thing
 
Karl DeAngelo is the king of micro flips. He does it very well on all the new machines from Stern and JJP but no idea if he is adjusting anything or whether it is just a skill like staging flippers where you need to know exactly where the 'biting point' of a button is. He plays most of his games on IE Pinball for 100s of hours though so maybe it takes a long time to find each machines' differences.

 
roadshow16 said:
That one's called a tip pass. As Matt said, Johannes makes it look like nothing, doing it at will, but it's a really tricky one to master. I was able to do it a few times when filming some of the skills videos for @Gonzo on his Elvira, but it's definitely wasn't consistent
Click to expand...

I really thought it was called a tap pass because the flipper does a little tap of the ball to flick it across. Is there such thing as a tap pass?

It's so much easier on the older games and I thought it was just a stern thing till I played other Sterns recently. It's confusing as I'd have thought all these Spike2 games use the same parts and boards
 
David_Vi said:
I really thought it was called a tap pass because the flipper does a little tap of the ball to flick it across. Is there such thing as a tap pass?

It's so much easier on the older games and I thought it was just a stern thing till I played other Sterns recently. It's confusing as I'd have thought all these Spike2 games use the same parts and boards
Click to expand...

Yeah I think there is some terminology stuff going on here. It's one of those things, a lot of these skills are pretty new and have different names as different communities learn them. From what you described, I'm pretty sure what you are talking about is the flick pass or the tip pass that is being wonderfully demonstrated in Abe's video that Neil shared above (his videos are truly immense). It's actually the same skill as the micro flips or mini flips that he described, ust used at different times in different game situations with a different result. As I have said in other threads, this skill set has been mastered by the young German king, Johannes Ostermeier. People used it before him, but not to anywhere near the extent that he uses these skills, primarily on newer stern games, to regain control. People have been trying to catch up quick, as it's an incredible skill to possess, but it's tricky.

The tap pass is in my opinion, the coolest pinball skill that you can do. When done correctly, it literally looks like magic in front of your eyes. It's why I became so obsessed with early 80's Bally SS games as they are just the best to tap pass on.

Check this video out


Or this shaky cam video of me using the tap pass to good effect on my old skateball that's now at Flipout


Tap passing is possible on newer games, actually all games, but I think there are only a handful of players in the world that can do it consistently with any effect, Escher being one. To be honest though, on newer games there isn't really that much need for it as there are a number of ways of transferring the ball from one flipper to another, that are way easier to master, producing the same effect....just not as cool 😎
 
Here's an example of someone tap passing on a newer game. It's always part of Michael Trepp's warm up routine, when he's practicing before a game. I don't really know why he does it, he never actually does it in a match 🤣 maybe it's to try and intimidate the opposition, somehow I don't think Cayle was that bothered 🤣

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Ok what sorcery is that!?
I wasn't aware of that skill, it does looks like magic.

I suppose I should have used the term 'micro flips' which you used above. Used in lots of skills but for me my favourite at the mo is passing the ball between flippers on Fish Tales to make the lock or left orbit depending on what side...it feels great!
Just can't get that same feel on TMNT and it's frustrating.

roadshow16 said:
Here's an example of someone tap passing on a newer game. It's always part of Michael Trepp's warm up routine, when he's practicing before a game. I don't really know why he does it, he never actually does it in a match 🤣 maybe it's to try and intimidate the opposition, somehow I don't think Cayle was that bothered 🤣

pinballvideos.com

Pinball Videos

Find exactly what you want to watch within thousands of hours of pinball tournament footage and tutorials.
pinballvideos.com pinballvideos.com
Click to expand...

Is that the correct video as I wouldn't consider Indy 500 a newer game?
 
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