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Faintly flashing lights + one wrong light flashing - am I right in my approach to fix?

Dinsdale

Dinsdale

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Joined
Oct 19, 2022
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391
Location
UK
Hi everyone

I'm at the point of owning my machine now where I'm pleased to say I am tackling the (mostly) unimportant matters - but my OCD wants everything perfect.

Today, I methodically went through the lamp matrix and went row by row, column by column and listed all of the odd behaviour. See the results below.

It seems that I have quite a common problem where some (not all) lamps will very faintly light another lamp on the same row/column. There is one instance where this completely lights up another lamp (Chase Value lighting up Start Button and Start Button doesn't come on in test).

I am thinking of just replacing all of the transistors in one fell swoop - but I wanted peoples thoughts on whether or not this would be the right approach. Would this solve the faint lighting, or is this just something normal?

I have a GI transistor and a flashlamp transistor I need to replace anyway, and I'm going to get it done by a professional who solders electronics for a living but still want to know how many transistors to tell him to replace.

FlashlampsTransistorTransistor PartIssue
Left Ball Popper Flashlamp 1Q24TIP 102Flasher is not lighting
Left Ball Popper Flashlamp 2Q24TIP 102Flasher is not lighting
Gun Flashlamp 1Q28TIP 102Flasher is lighting, but doesn't flash. Light stays on for 20 seconds after power off.
Gun Flashlamp 2Q28TIP 102Flasher is lighting, but doesn't flash. Light stays on for 20 seconds after power off.
General IlluminationTransistorTransistor PartIssue
CPU String LightsQ12BT138E TriarcLamps are not lighting
LampsTransistorTransistor PartIssue
Lamp Row 1Q90TIP 102- Lamp in this row (Kickback) also faintly lights another lamp in this row (Multiplier 2X)
- Lamp in this row (Lock Two) also faintly lights another lamp in this row (Target 1)
- Lamp in this row (Left CPU Lit) also faintly lights another lamp in this row (Right CPU Lit)
- Lamp in this row (Right CPU Lit) also faintly lights another lamp in this row (Left CPU Lit)
Lamp Row 2Q89TIP 102- Lamp in this row (Special) also faintly lights another lamp in this row (Target 2)
- Lamp in this row (Eyes Upper) also faintly lights another lamp in this row (Left Vault Key)
- Lamp in this row (Left Valut Key) also faintly lights another lamp in this row (Right Valut Key)
- Lamp in this row (Right Vault Key) also faintly lights another lamp in this row (Left Valut Key)
- Lamp in this row (Right Ramp) also faintly lights another lamp in this row (Multiplier 4X)
Lamp Row 3Q88TIP 102- Lamp in this row (Hold Bonus) also faintly lights another lamp in this row (Hurry Up)
- Lamp in this row (Left Return Lane) also faintly lights another lamp in this row (Target 3)
- Lamp in this row (Target 3) also faintly lights another lamp in this row (Hurry Up)
- Lamp in this row (10 Million) also faintly lights another lamp in this row (Target 3)
- Lamp in this row (Left Silent Alarm) also faintly lights another lamp in this row (Right Silent Alarm)
- Lamp in this row (Right Silent Alarm) also faintly lights another lamp in this row (Left Silent Alarm)
- Lamp in this row (Right Silent Alarm) also faintly lights another lamp in this row (Hurry Up)
- Lamp in this row (Left Silent Alarm) also faintly lights another lamp in this row (Right Silent Alarm)
Lamp Row 4Q87TIP 102- Lamp in this row (Right Return Lane) also faintly lights another lamp in this row (Multiplier 6X)
- Lamp in this row (Extra Ball) also faintly lights another lamp in this row (3 Million)
- Lamp in this row (Left Passcode) also faintly lights another lamp in this row (Right Passcode)
- Lamp in this row (Start Button) doesn't light in Test mode.
Lamp Row 5Q86TIP 102- Lamp in this row (Multiplier 8X) also faintly lights another lamp in this row (Drop Target)
- Lamp in this row (Multiball) also faintly lights another lamp in this row (Target 5)
- Lamp in this row (1 Million) also faintly lights another lamp in this row (Left Checkpoint)
- Lamp in this row (Left Checkpoint) also faintly lights another lamp in this row (Right Checkpoint)
- Lamp in this row (Right Checkpoint) also faintly lights another lamp in this row (Left Checkpoint)
Lamp Row 6Q85TIP 102- Lamp in this row (Shoot Again) also faintly lights another lamp in this row (Top Lane Left)
- Lamp in this row (Load Gun) also faintly lights another lamp in this row (Shoot Again)
Lamp Row 7Q84TIP 102- Lamp in this row (Hold Bonus) also faintly lights another lamp in this row (Middle Bank Center)
- Lamp in this column (Data Base 1) also faintly lights another lamp in this column (500k)
- Lamp in this column (Right Bank Middle) also faintly lights another lamp in this column (Top Lane Center)
Lamp Row 8Q83TIP 102- No issues
Lamp Column 1Q98TIP 107- Lamp in this column (Hold Bonus) also faintly lights another lamp in this column (Multiplier 2X)
- Lamp in this column (Mouth) also faintly lights another lamp in this column (Multiplier 2X)
Lamp Column 2Q97TIP 107- No issues
Lamp Column 3Q96TIP 107- No issues
Lamp Column 4Q95TIP 107- No issues
Lamp Column 5Q94TIP 107- No issues
Lamp Column 6Q93TIP 107- No issues
Lamp Column 7Q92TIP 107- No issues
Lamp Column 8Q91TIP 107- Lamp in this column (Chase Value) also completely lights another lamp in this column (Start Button)
 
Can't go in depth as I'm pushed for time...
But I had a similar issue with Junk Yard.
It turned out that one lamp socket was wired backwards so everything on that row or column was lighting at the same time.
If it's a new issue it won't be that, but if it's been like that since you got it or you've rewired any lamp sockets it could be! Or a backwards diode.

It took me hours to notice it as you don't expect something like that to be wrong. I wish I could remember the specifics but I think I just discovered it right under my nose after going in depth with lots of different tests.
 
Thanks. Before I got to look at that, I tried to be clever and replace one transistor myself. I've obviously done a horrible job, because now my drop target coil started smoking and got burning hot, my game took a massive fit, firing coils everywhere, my ColorDMD won't turn work and the game reboots every 30 seconds in attract mode.

I'm going to send my board off and get everything sorted once and for all, and accept that outside of replacing bulbs and resoldering the odd wire, this advanced repair ******** just isn't for me unless I want my house burned down.

Call it an epiphany.
 
So I'm guessing this is Terminator 2. Does your machine have LED lamps installed, or traditional incandescent lamps? It sounds like you have LEDs installed from the symptoms.

In 25 years of doing this, its never been the triac on the GI circuit. Theres always a first time of course, but absolue=tely rule out everything else first.
 
pinballmania said:
So I'm guessing this is Terminator 2. Does your machine have LED lamps installed, or traditional incandescent lamps? It sounds like you have LEDs installed from the symptoms.

In 25 years of doing this, its never been the triac on the GI circuit. Theres always a first time of course, but absolue=tely rule out everything else first.
Click to expand...
It is a T2 and it is all LEDs.

I did wonder if this is just normal with LEDs, save for the outlier where a lamp completely lights up when it shouldn't (column 8).

I've sent off my board for repair anyway because of the ridiculously awful job I did with replacing a triarc for another issue... if it comes back and this faint lighting issue is still the same I suppose it's not the board.
 
Not really read it all , but all 90s machines are not designed to have LED’s ,so yes some led’s will light up or glow , if they were bulbs them they wouldn’t unless there is a fault . @Paul does a patch for games to take Leds .Have your roms been changed to take Leds or are they still original ?
 
carl lawrence said:
Not really read it all , but all 90s machines are not designed to have LED’s ,so yes some led’s will light up or glow , if they were bulbs them they wouldn’t unless there is a fault . @Paul does a patch for games to take Leds .Have your roms been changed to take Leds or are they still original ?
Click to expand...
The game ROM (L-6) is original as far as I know, but I do actually plan on upgrading it to L-8 as it has a couple of gameplay fixes.
 
Can you shed some light on what the LED patch is? Is this custom fan firmware that's on an EPROM? Would I be better off getting that?
 
It’s the same game rules but the timing to the lamp matrix is adjusted slightly to allow for the use of leds. Basically it’s because the leds are quicker to turn on than traditional lamps. So the small glows and flashes you see would be invisible in a slow incandescent lamp. As others have said, have someone program you a patched latest version Rom.
 
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